Curse

Lasareth · Feb 22, 2006, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Hi

I'll start off by saying I'm very inexperienced in the mechanics of gvg, and am on a quest to improve myself. That being said, I've recently been running a ranged monk but have a few questions about both my playing style and my selection of skills. I understand that both are important, and that I may have either good skills or good strategy, but build and strategy may conflict in some points.

I've posted this here because I would not only like build criticism, but strategy discussion as well.

So, as it's easier to learn from others' views for me, I'd like to ask those with a fair amount of gvg experience how I can improve. Hopefully, with the right input, I can learn to become a more efficient player and can increase my knowledge as to the benefits and drawbacks of each scenario following.

I appreciate any insight into this, and I am looking for a good deal of constructive criticism. I am by no means an experienced player, and I am hoping that this, with my increase in in-game gvgs, can help me to improve.

So without further ado... here it is.

The following is based on a Guild party containing 3 monks. If I were one of two monks in the party, I would most likely not run this build.

Attribute setup:

Healing 13 (12+1)
Protection 14 (10+3+1)
Divine Favor 7 (6+1)
Blood Magic 6

Tentative skill setup:

Healing Breeze
Protective Spirit
Heal Party
Aegis
Martyr [E]
Guardian
Order of Pain
Mend Ailment

Equipment:

Set 1:
Fiery Flame Spitter with enchanting mod
Protective icon with 20%/20% cast and recast on protection skills
Set 2: (Emergency energy reserves) (On my PvP version of the character, I haven't run this yet)
PvP Holy rod (+15energy, -1 regen)
PvP Protective Icon (+27 energy, -1 regen)

Why I set these skills up, and ideally, what they're useful (?) for:

The three skills this build's based around are Martyr, Aegis, and Heal Party.

Aegis at 16 protection has the same duration (11s base) as at 14, so I've arbitrarily allotted the 36 superfluous points into DF and blood. In doing this I lose efficiency in two other spells--Protective Spirit and Mend Ailment. Whether this is a wise choice or not is limited by my experience with the build--often, when I'm playing ranged protector, the only person I normally cast Mend Ailment on is myself, and from time to time a teammate in extreme circumstances.

Protective spirit is in theory only for use when either I am being attacked or when the circumstances require that I join my party in close combat (the latter which happens infrequently from what I've experienced personally). Its duration of 22 seconds is enough time to cover me from significantly damaging attacks (i.e. spike damage) while I run to cover

Healing Breeze (+8 regen) -- also used when I mix it up in (relatively) close combat, I can use it when energy permits between Aegis and Martyr cast times on party members to provide some regen, most notably if a singly party member is suffering from a degeneration hex or stack of hexes that the other monks can't remove. When alone, I (rarely) use this to heal myself if my hp reaches a certain point. Most of the time, however, I can heal with Heal Party or Mend Ailment.

Speaking of those skills...

Heal Party (71 hp party heal) -- This is the third in my triumvirate of base skills for the build. It provides a strong defense against groups who cause rapid hex degeneration, and can assist the other monks of my party in healing. Often, using this is in contention with using Aegis, if both skills are available and my energy permits only one. In this case, I take the situation into account. If the party is in a heavy melee battle, I use Aegis to lessen the overall need for healing. If the party is suffering from magic and degenerative hexes, I use Heal Party. To maximise Heal Party efficiency, however, I do not use it if a single ally is missing a large amount of HP, and the others are at or near full hp. Doing so, I believe, would be a waste of 15 energy which could be better spent on other skills or saved for when I do need to spend it.

Mend Ailment (66 hp restoration per remaining condition) -- I use this skill chiefly to clean up the mess. That is, to get rid of unwanted conditions on me (crippled is my primary candidate for this, especially if I am in a situation where I need to move) and to mend party members if they are within range and martyr is recharging. This skill also offers me a self heal if I have multiple conditions on me (at times I Martyr 3-4 conditions onto myself. If my hp is relatively low, I use Mend Ailment to recover some).

Guardian (48% chance evasion) -- For situations in which I need to run, this minimises the damage on me. It can also be used on other party members if they need immediate help.

What actually happens:

This essentially is an account and showcase of my limited experience, so there may and probably will be many issues with incorrect tactics here. If possible, I would appreciate any and all insight into what I'm doing wrong or right, and what I can improve on.

That being said, this is how I've experienced being a ranged protector/healer:

During the fight for the flag stand, I try to find a ledge on which to perch to cast my skills. My primary skill here is Aegis, which I cast as often as possible. I keep an eye on the party's hp bars, and once I see an accumulation of conditions, or if my party members call out conditions that cripple specific units (i.e. blind on warriors) I use Martyr. I follow this up with either a single Mend Ailment or nothing at all on myself. If I have a window where the party is at high hp and few conditions, and if I have more than 20 energy, I'll pop in an Order of Pain from atop my perch. I use Heal Party if either Aegis is recharging and I have enough energy, or if the entire party is missing an amount of HP in which case I estimate how efficient using HP will be vs other skills.

Sometimes I'm attacked. If this happens, I try to run to a safer spot, either still within reach of my monks and party so that I can continue healing them or to an area where I believe the enemy will stop pursuing if I go. If my team has a defensive ward up, I try to run into it. In this situation, the only party skills I even think of using are Martyr and Aegis. Each time I use them, though, I need to estimate whether either I'll be interrupted or where taking on conditions will likely lead to my death. If I can make enough distance between a foe to cast Aegis, I try to do so to help my team and myself out.

If/When my team advances into the enemy's base, I stay just out of range, and spam Aegis, Heal Party, and Martyr, each according to the situation and condition of the party. In maps with siege, I park it near the catapult in case I need to make an emergency launch. I avoid entering the enemy's base unless my teammates are out of range or unless I will be able to find a safe spot where I will be least likely to be attacked, and where I can escape from if necessary.

My last games with this build were fairly successful, and I feel that I am becoming more familiar with the tactics of the build, but I've noticed both some upsides and downsides to my skill selection...

Pros:

Sufficient self protection, self healing
Able to cover many bases of healing, able to remain "efficient" without having to be in the midst of battle
Each skill I have has a productive use

Cons:

No energy management whatsoever

This is my biggest problem running this, and I would very much appreciate some help as to what I can use here. Since I won't be spending a lot of time too close to the battle, I am leaning towards energy regeneration that is autonomous--that is, a skill that I can use that does not require my getting into the middle of the fight (i.e. Channeling), taking damage (any mantras), or casting on an enemy under certain conditions (power drain). The closest I can get to this is a direct energy draining skill such as Energy Tap. This represents an issue as it can be interrupted easily, and it requires my getting rid of the skill Order of Pain.

Comparing OoP to energy regaining skills (in this case, energy tap):
Order of Pain--8 added damage to physical attacks for 5 seconds. Evaluating my party's performance at 3 dedicated physical fighters (2W 1R normally) and the attack/delays of their respective weapons, I can come up with a rough estimate of about 88-100 damage average if each player is constantly attacking a target under that time. At the cost of 10 energy, this may not be entirely efficient, especially if the party isn't running a spike build. The equivalent of 88 hp loss is about 5 energy for an orison of healing or booned protection skill. The tradeoff is 10 energy for 5, basically, which I do not feel too comfortable with. However, it copmlies well with my ranged "theme" and does not require that I move in to cast.

Alternatively, there is Energy Tap, which at 5 energy drain is a net gain of 5 energy per 30 seconds, with a 3 second cast time. This isn't too efficient either.

Drain Enchantment may be another potential candidate. It offers a net gain of 5 energy per 25 seconds with the added bonus of removing an enemy enchantment. The caveat to this, however, is that i need to find an enchanted enemy for it to work. Which means intentionally going out of my safe zone just to get a few energy and remove and enchantment.

Rearranging my attributes may change this, so if there is a better way to run this I am open to any suggestions. As it is now, I am restricted to my natural energy regeneration of 4 energy per every 3 seconds, and am forced to modify my casting strategy to fit this.

I use some skills extremely infrequently, or incorrectly

The issue here is in Healing Breeze. On a health-energy basis, it's a good self-heal, but I often use Mend Ailment, either for the healing from the stacked conditions or to get rid of a condition I need gone immediately. The 10 energy cost of Breeze also limits me exclusively to Ailment in cases where I need to conserve energy but regain hp. This ties into the issue of energy management above.

Probably not as efficient as I could be with my choice of skills

Speaks for itself, there are possibly better options that I haven't considered.

I think this is about it, but I have probably missed something.

Thanks in advance to anyone who offers some insight here, I would greatly appreciate it

Ironically enough, just writing this all out made me change a few skills around for "better" efficiency.

wheel · Feb 23, 2006, 01:51 AM // 01:51

iQ runs a monk very similar to this as their flagger as he's able to benefit his teammates from a distance, a situation where he'll be in while running flags quite often, very well. It's not a bad idea at all, but as a character working directly with the team and benefiting nothing else, it's a bit of a wasted slot since his energy management is nill.

This is essentially what iQ runs for their Monk/Flagger:

Monk/Necromancer
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 3 (2+1)
Healing Prayers: 14 (12+2)
Protection Prayers: 7 (6+1)
Blood Magic: 11

Martyr [Elite] (Monk other)
Aegis (Protection Prayers)
Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
Purge Conditions (Monk other)
Healing Breeze (Healing Prayers)
Order of Pain (Blood Magic)
Life Bond (Protection Prayers)
Resurrection Signet ()

You don't need as many points in protection as you have put. It just doesn't give you a strong return on your investment. The Heal Party and Orders are important to spec higher into. Watch how iQ runs the build. It's a very different concept.

Red Locust · Feb 23, 2006, 08:45 AM // 08:45

I also find martyr on a monk primary pretty distasteful. It seems to me like a waste to have the monk's elite taken up by a non-attribute skill. I'd say take OoB to fuel that order of pain, or at the very least switch out martyr for restore condition. Currently with so many cripshot rangers around, restore is very powerful.

wheel · Feb 23, 2006, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

I also find martyr on a monk primary pretty distasteful. It seems to me like a waste to have the monk's elite taken up by a non-attribute skill. I'd say take OoB to fuel that order of pain, or at the very least switch out martyr for restore condition. Currently with so many cripshot rangers around, restore is very powerful.

The character's design is to be out of radar range. Here, the loss of energy management is overshadowed by the utility of Martyr. It's a niche role, but one that is served nicely.

Makkert · Feb 23, 2006, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Sorry Lasareth,
couldn't bring myself to read the entire article you wrote

.

However I'd note that only using 2 of 4 weaponslots, especially as a monk, is a shame.

I'd suggest you try one of the following, up to your own taste:
- spreading out the extra energy set to two slots (1 with 15/-1; another with 30/-2)
- adding a negative energy set (-5 sword; -2 icon from Cities of ascalon/castershield)
- extra hp set (+60 hp) against spike teams/ when dp suffering

Lasareth · Feb 23, 2006, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Thanks for the input so far

I appreciate it.

wheel, that build seems more efficient that what I've been running, and to be honest when I ran into a situation when I was doing it where I was doing some flag running in our battle, it felt "nearly" natural.

I've been studying iQ vs. EvIL match two a while to learn a bit about it and hopefully I'll be able to incorporate some of those tactics into my own when I get the next chance to use the build.

Having a greater Heal Party heal is definitely better than a few seconds of Aegis, and removing Mend Ailment for Purge Conditions has lessened the advantage of having higher Protection skills.

I'll probably add a +hp(or +armor) and -energy set to my weapons, as well

Those two original ones felt a bit lonely, and since I'm doing a bit better, I think I can manage all 4.

Thanks again

wheel · Feb 24, 2006, 10:07 AM // 10:07

By the way, in your future buildmaking endeavors, one tool that you have at your advantage is GWFreaks. It's a great program for making and keeping track of your builds. Also, one thing that I noted on your attributes is that they're inefficient. This doesn't always matter much in most builds, but in some builds, a more effective attribute spread nets you more free attribute points. Consider your attribute spread:

Divine Favor: 7 (6+1)
Healing Prayers: 13 (12+1)
Protection Prayers: 14 (10+4)
Blood Magic: 6

200/200 Attribute Points spent

Now, check out this attribute spread:

Divine Favor: 7 (6+1)
Healing Prayers: 13 (11+2)
Protection Prayers: 14 (11+3)
Blood Magic: 6

The end attributes are the same, and we're using the same runing (as far as life loss is concerned). What's the difference? The difference is that you don't have to spec into 12 on one attribute and 10 in another, which is less efficient than speccing into 11 in two attributes. Total effect, this attribute allocation costs:

196/200 Attribute Points spent

It's not going to make any difference at all in most cases, but you'll have some cases where more efficent attribute allocation nets you an extra level somewhere, and you'll thank me.