Curse

Inferno149870 · Feb 20, 2006, 01:12 PM // 13:12

R/Me
Apply Poison
Crippling
Distortion
Blackout
Distracting shot
Savage Shot
Troll Ungent
Rez Sig

could someone give me the theory behind this ranger build? i understand a bunch of it is to cripple and poison, but why these skills. why not for instance use hunter's shot or the non-elite crippling shot instead of the elite one? why not use whirling defense or lightning reflexes instead of distortion? why blackout (its meh at best) why use those particular interupts? and what are the attributes on this build?

just wondering... seemed a bit strange... if its an interuppt build there are certainly better or at least different ways to do it. and i was suprised by in the world championship to see almost every ranger sporting this build.

Skuld · Feb 20, 2006, 01:19 PM // 13:19

pin down has a really long recharge time i think

Xasew · Feb 20, 2006, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Learn2play?
Blackout is total shutdown for 5 seconds. If you have 2 monks and the other can't heal for 5 seconds, the other monk will get easily spiked. It also resets adrenaline.
If you really don't understand why the ranger uses Distortion, you should maybe look at the recharges... Same thing with Crippling Shot.
Distracting Shot is very good because of the added recharge. Savage has a fast recharge.

asdar · Feb 20, 2006, 01:53 PM // 13:53

The builds that you see running this are pressure builds. They need to disrupt the enemy so that the pressure gets the chance to take hold. The pressure is in the form of degen's, energy denial and conditions.

These rangers use crippling shot for the recharge time. You can almost spam crippling shot. If you apply poison and crippling they have two conditions so it's two casts from a monk that's some pressure on him.

Lightning reflexes only helps on melee attacks, Whirling defense is awesome, but it's got a 60 second recharge killing it's usefulness in pvp totally. Distortion is the best for avoidance.

This character is meant to disable the enemy and to be self sufficient enough to go alone on flag runs.

Delillo · Feb 20, 2006, 08:30 PM // 20:30

I think blackout has a decent synergy with a ranger with apply poison because this ranger is still able to keep poisoning enemy targets even during his own skill lockout. (Believe- I don't think blackout cancels preps)

Distortion's 5 sec recharge on a 5 second skill means you got it essentially whenever you need it.

crippling + apply poison is the meat of the build- the interrupts are much more situational. watch these guys play you'll see that crippling is used more than all other skills combined really. I think thats its effective not just because its slowing the enemy down but also as a "cover condition."

Hunter's Shot has good synergy with this build but there's nothing that I saw that suggests that this build has high marksmanship.

Siliconwafer · Feb 20, 2006, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

The builds that you see running this are pressure builds. They need to disrupt the enemy so that the pressure gets the chance to take hold. The pressure is in the form of degen's, energy denial and conditions.

Also seen vary much in adrenal spikes or builds designed to kill two monk baclkines. Blackout shuts down one monk, while the rest of the team go for the other monk (probably gale lock for no spike healing).
Crippling shot + apply poison can be spammed for constant cripple on the enemy's warriors (although a lot of people are taking draw conditions or restore) but it's still one of the best movement controls there is at the moment.

Epinephrine · Feb 20, 2006, 09:17 PM // 21:17

This is a really nice utility ranger ; he slows the other team, causes degeneration, interrupts key skills and shuts down skills on players he can touch.
Yes, blackout has nice synergy, as ranegrs can keep shooting away. As was shown recently in Taipei, Blackout is much more useful than anticipated vs Warriors; while typically used vs monks for preventing healing, blackout has the extra benefit of removing all adreanline when it disables all skills, so when you see the fully pumped warrior running up to spike a player you can cripple him and say "Tag, you're out" and his offense has been stripped - not that I picture this guy doing that all the time, but it is a nice defensive move as well as a way to further disrupt the enemy.

wheel · Feb 20, 2006, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inferno149870

R/Me
Apply Poison
Crippling
Distortion
Blackout
Distracting shot
Savage Shot
Troll Ungent
Rez Sig

could someone give me the theory behind this ranger build? i understand a bunch of it is to cripple and poison, but why these skills. why not for instance use hunter's shot or the non-elite crippling shot instead of the elite one? why not use whirling defense or lightning reflexes instead of distortion? why blackout (its meh at best) why use those particular interupts? and what are the attributes on this build?

just wondering... seemed a bit strange... if its an interuppt build there are certainly better or at least different ways to do it. and i was suprised by in the world championship to see almost every ranger sporting this build.

Crippling Shot vs Pin Down
Crippling Shot [Elite] (Marksmanship)
If Crippling Shot hits, your target becomes Crippled for 8 seconds. This attack cannot be blocked or evaded.
Energy:10 Cast:0 Recharge:1

Pin Down (Marksmanship)
If Pin Down hits, your target is Crippled for 11 seconds.
Energy:15 Cast:0 Recharge:15

It's a night and day comparison. The energy cost and the recharge are much better on Crippling Shot. Definitely worth the elite slot. Plus there's the whole "can't be blocked or evaded" bit. That's always nice

Distortion vs Lightning Reflexes/Whirling Defense
Distortion (Illusion Magic)
For 5 Seconds, you have a 75% chance to "evade" attacks. Whenever you evade an attack this way, you lose 2 Energy or Distortion ends.
Energy:5 Cast:0 Recharge:5

Whirling Defense (Expertise)
For 21 seconds, you have 75% chance to "block" attacks. Whenever you block a projectile in this way, adjacent foes take 11 piercing damage.
Energy:10 Cast:0 Recharge:60

Lightning Reflexes (Expertise)
For 11 seconds, you have a 75% chance to "evade" melee and projectile attacks, and you attack 33% faster.
Energy:10 Cast:0 Recharge:45

Again, the recharge times of these skills make them less than favorable in PvP, even given maxed expertise and duration.

The two interrupt skills are there for soloing NPCs and taking out enemy flaggers. Also, they're nice for interrupting key spells in the main battle when he's at the flagstand or anywhere else with the rest of the team.

Blackout is there to disable monks in a 2 monk backline so that the other can be spiked out with ease. It's also there to stop a warrior from spiking as it resets their adrenaline. It also has the distinction of being a skill that can interrupt through Mantra of Resolve. By the way, Apply Poison is there to spread degen as well as a cover for the Cripple applied by Crippling Shot.

As far as attributes for this build, they're going to be similar to this (It really depends on the build.):

Cripshotter Flagger

Ranger/Mesmer
Level: 20

Expertise: 14 (12+2)
Wilderness Survival: 9 (8+1)
Marksmanship: 9 (8+1)
Domination Magic: 5
Illusion Magic: 4

Like I said, depending on the build, you would have more or less domination and possibly less Expertise, but the breakpoint is fairly important. If the character isn't a flagger implying that it's more viable to run a Superior Rune, the stats would probably look more like this:

Cripshotter

Ranger/Mesmer
Level: 20

Expertise: 14 (10+4)
Wilderness Survival: 10 (9+1)
Marksmanship: 9 (8+1)
Domination Magic: 8
Illusion Magic: 4

Note: Most flaggers don't use blackout because it's less than useful for soloing NPCs or taking out the other flagger. They usually sub in Storm Chaser in for this or something like Hunter's Shot. Of course, it depends on the build.

Bugeater · Feb 20, 2006, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

It's a night and day comparison. The energy cost and the recharge are much better on Crippling Shot. Definitely worth the elite slot.

Not only that but Cripshot can't be evaded - extra nice when tagging an enemy flagger whose got his Dodge on.

Inferno149870 · Feb 21, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

alright thanks for the help, sorry to sound ignorant (i promise im not) just not big on PVP and didn't take the time to go through and check recharge/energy cost... been a big help..

i agree with everything but blackout... i understand why its good, but its so short i definatley think there are other alternatives..

also don't get the high expertise... none of the suggested builds sported and exp skills and while it does lower energy cost, none of those skills are particularly high energy cost and druids armor should keep energy up. i would think say 9 expertise and high marks for more damage or high mesmer atts for greater effect lenght would be preferable.

wheel · Feb 22, 2006, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inferno149870

alright thanks for the help, sorry to sound ignorant (i promise im not) just not big on PVP and didn't take the time to go through and check recharge/energy cost... been a big help..

i agree with everything but blackout... i understand why its good, but its so short i definatley think there are other alternatives..

also don't get the high expertise... none of the suggested builds sported and exp skills and while it does lower energy cost, none of those skills are particularly high energy cost and druids armor should keep energy up. i would think say 9 expertise and high marks for more damage or high mesmer atts for greater effect lenght would be preferable.

At the cost of 4 energy (and 5 seconds of being disabled, but still able to spread poison), you can prevent a warrior from spiking. The expertise is there to give the character longevity. It's much better than having higher Marks.

X20A_Strike_Freedom · Feb 27, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

I go:

Expertise: 13 (10+3)
Wilderness Survival: 11 (9+2)
Markmanship: 9 (8+1)
Domination Magic: 8
Illusion Magic: 5

Only 4 Illusion Magic is needed for -2 Distortion but I had leftovers.
11 secs of poison, 5 secs of Blackout (I think)

LaserLight · Feb 27, 2006, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Less Marks/Wilderness, more Expertise. Cripshots need the att. level 14 breakpoint. I can barely keep myself charged even with it.

Truth be told, I never figured out why these builds bothered with Marks at all. Crippling Shot is totally independant of Marks and you don't tend to have any other skills in that line save Savage, and you can easily do your job minus Marks. Savage still interrupts, Crippling still Cripples.

I can see that more damage is always good, but I have to wonder if these types would be better served with more Illusion and Wilderness for their defensive/healing skills. Obviously if ye can't kick Distortion up to one second then put it in WS or Domination, but I figure these dudes do their damage regardless of the damaging capabilities of the bow involved.

Siliconwafer · Feb 27, 2006, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inferno149870

i agree with everything but blackout... i understand why its good, but its so short i definatley think there are other alternatives..

also don't get the high expertise... none of the suggested builds sported and exp skills and while it does lower energy cost, none of those skills are particularly high energy cost and druids armor should keep energy up. i would think say 9 expertise and high marks for more damage or high mesmer atts for greater effect lenght would be preferable.

In addition to what wheel said (well, he did say it earlier), Blackout offers complete shutdown of a caster for five seconds. The only other skills I can think of that come near blackout would be Power Block or Gale; one which is very conditional, and the other with exhaustion cost. As the metagame is currently a two monk backline (although you see a few more three monk backlines), Blackout synergises well with spike; especially warrior spike, as gale locking keeps the other monk down, effectively meaning that for five plus seconds, the opposition get no healing. If your warriors are good, you can often easily kill someone in five seconds.

And LaserLight is right in that you need all the expertise you can get, because you want to be able to practically spam cripshot and keep it on any number of warriors, and other targets (like spike targets and kiters) most of the time.

wheel · Feb 27, 2006, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

Less Marks/Wilderness, more Expertise. Cripshots need the att. level 14 breakpoint. I can barely keep myself charged even with it.

Truth be told, I never figured out why these builds bothered with Marks at all. Crippling Shot is totally independant of Marks and you don't tend to have any other skills in that line save Savage, and you can easily do your job minus Marks. Savage still interrupts, Crippling still Cripples.

I can see that more damage is always good, but I have to wonder if these types would be better served with more Illusion and Wilderness for their defensive/healing skills. Obviously if ye can't kick Distortion up to one second then put it in WS or Domination, but I figure these dudes do their damage regardless of the damaging capabilities of the bow involved.

there's a huge difference in damage between 8 marks and 9 marks with a req9 marks bow. if there were easily available 15^50 req8,7...,2,1 bows, you would see more cripshotters with less marks.

LaserLight · Feb 27, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Hm hm...my point was that I didn't think Cripshots needed to deal damage directly with their bows - their function is to piss people off and cause widespread degen with Apply Poison. That and run up and Blackout people in this instance, though I don't necessarily agree that R/Me is the only way to go with the Cripshots. A good way, but not the only way.

Verdizzy · Feb 27, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Ok, another noob question. I understand the attractiveness of distortion, but you lose 2 energy for every attack you evade? So essentially, if you keep evading attacks, you run out of energy? Can this hurt your energy supply.

I've just never used it before, so I'm not really sure how it works. Could someone please elaborate?

moriz · Feb 27, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

not really. distortion only last 5 seconds, has a 5 second recharge, and only cost 5 energy. this means that it's much better in a pinch situation where you need to shake off that warrior/ranger pounding on you. basically, you should not have to avoid more than a few hits. a ranger's supposed to be highly mobile to be completely effective. staying in one place and evading hits is generally not a good thing (unless you're a spiker. but then, you can use the oath shot+whirling defense combo for almost continuous blocking).

Inferno149870 · Feb 27, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

^ this is gonna be tough for me to do as while im pretty good at evading... my comp is a piece of crap... lagola..... (256 ram)

wheel · Feb 27, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

Hm hm...my point was that I didn't think Cripshots needed to deal damage directly with their bows - their function is to piss people off and cause widespread degen with Apply Poison. That and run up and Blackout people in this instance, though I don't necessarily agree that R/Me is the only way to go with the Cripshots. A good way, but not the only way.

I understand the point, but the damage does add up over time. It greatly helps when you're taking out NPCs and soloing opposing flaggers. Distortion and Blackout are just too nice right now to ignore on a cripshotter. What else would a cripshotter run as his secondary right now? Monk?