Curse

Bio-Flame · Mar 10, 2006, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Throwing out your weakest skill isn't an option either - if you are forced to use a skill you've got three that you can realistically use - mend condition, guardian or RoF.

Use boon.......

zoozoc · Mar 10, 2006, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bio-Flame

Use boon.......

Enchant removal ftw. Plus boon dosnt heal anyone, which is the context of the whole point of needing to use a skill with diversion on yourself.

Divineshadows · Mar 10, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

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Originally Posted by dgb

Your working on the idea that you have two monks. To me that's a suicidal precept to work on. Most decent builds have a way too at least reduce the efficiency of two monks and so hoping that the other monk is fine is risky at best to me. Throwing out your weakest skill isn't an option either - if you are forced to use a skill you've got three that you can realistically use - mend condition, guardian or RoF. If it's that bad that you have to use one through a diversion then the situation is probably bad enough that you want an RoF. Either way you've locked out one of your main workhorses for healing for almost a minute.

Add on that you've got another diversion landing in 10 seconds, you are talking either taking constant lockdowns, running veil on yourself constantly (which if you do a smart mesmer will just leave you and let you get energy drained by losing the pip of energy) or losing even mroe skills. The whole thing gets worse when you start getting diversions chained together using echo or arcane echo. Unless you have someone dedicated to removing hexes they are extremely difficult to beat.

I've had a mesmer sitting on me with diversions as a boon prot. Even with a second monk removing the hexes they are extremely difficult to beat, plus you have given over nearly all your hex removal capability to something that can be refreshed every ten seconds. I don't know why it's underused in competition, but with a spammer it locks a boon-prot very easily.

Yes it's not so good that you want to configure half your bar to avoid it (despite how strongly I'm arguing here :P). But an extra six energy per minute is not worth it for me as opposed to being nearly immune to what is quite a nasty hex. Six energy per minute is not "significantly" better. It's marginal. While enchants are more common than hexes, hexes aren't hugely common. And if you want to run that argument, take inspired enchantment instead - it eats the diversion just as easily as inspired hex.

I assume these comments are in an 8v8 GvG team setting. Why are you trying to beat diversion on your own as a monk using reactive means such as burning a lesser skill or having a teammate use hex removal? Be proactive; talk to your damage dealers and have them DO something against the diversion spammer. Diversion has a nice long 3 second cast that even with fast-casting is not brought much under 2 seconds. This is just asking for a distracting shot. Perhaps the ranger on your team is bad at interrupting or is bad at selecting the best spells to interrupt? Or how about getting a warrior on your team to rage against that memser so the enemy mesmer is forced to kite and rarely gets the ~2s to stand still and cast diversion? Better yet, have your dom memser deny that memser of energy reducing the frequency at which they can cast diversion. As JR said, diversion is a good skill but overpowered it is not.

The inspired skills only counter diversion iff you have already inspired something. Trying to cast inspired hex with diversion on you will only result in inspired hex getting diverted. The simple fact is that every good team you face will use enchantments, but not every good team you face will use hexes. This alone makes drain enchantment superior energy management to inspired hex. Also, I have had inspired hex backfire on me all too often costing 5 energy with no return when attempting to remove short lived elementalist hexes and hexes like mind wrack that have unpredictable ending times. Even with all the drawbacks to inspired hex, I still prefer to use it alongside reliable energy management skills like energy drain and drain enchantment. When I am on a team with other good players who are good at their roles, I find that I have more than enough energy to fire enemy hexes back at them -- spirit of failure, spirit shackles, ineptitude, phantom pain, ethereal burden, crippling anguish, pacafism, amity, and ether lord (conditional upon being low on energy). This allows me to further contribute to the offense beyond the standard drain enchantment and energy drain.

Chev of Hardass · Mar 10, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

The inspired skills only counter diversion iff you have already inspired something. Trying to cast inspired hex with diversion on you will only result in inspired hex getting diverted.

I have seen this work both ways. Weeks ago, I was using Inspired Hex because it broke when used with Diversion on you and nullified Diversion. Then an update came and it seemed as though they fixed the workings of these two skills and Inspired Hex would be Diversioned. However, last night (I had Smite Hex on my Mesmer's bar after having Inspired Hex get Diversioned) the Mesmer that I ended up battling in our GvG was able to Inspire Hex through Diversion, without Inspire Hex being Diversioned. So, what is, was, or will be the deal with this combination of skills? Or are thier reactions purely luck based?

Schorny · Mar 10, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

So, what is, was, or will be the deal with this combination of skills? Or are thier reactions purely luck based?

nah, it is easy and as far as i can remember it never changed:

If you have only diversion on you, you can't get it off directly. But you can remove an other hex (on you or an ally) and diversion will trigger and increase the recharge of insp hex. But if you get the other hex, insp hex does not fall in "is recharging"-state and is replaced by the other hex.

Works the same with Inspired Enchantment...

Chev of Hardass · Mar 11, 2006, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

nah, it is easy and as far as i can remember it never changed:

If you have only diversion on you, you can't get it off directly. But you can remove an other hex (on you or an ally) and diversion will trigger and increase the recharge of insp hex. But if you get the other hex, insp hex does not fall in "is recharging"-state and is replaced by the other hex.

Works the same with Inspired Enchantment...

OK, so he was most likely removing a hex from an ally and getting around the extra recharge time? Sweet detail to know, I hope I got it right.

Louis Ste Colombe · Mar 12, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Maybe... maybe that if Booner got a problem with energy management, the problem is booning?

Maybe it's time to think outside of the booning box?

Or get a blood battery? or change the rest of the skill bar so that it is less energy demanding?

Louis,

NatalieD · Mar 13, 2006, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louis Ste Colombe

Maybe... maybe that if Booner got a problem with energy management, the problem is booning?

Maybe it's time to think outside of the booning box?

The "box" is only there because we've tried every alternative we can think of, and none of them can match up to the boon prot, OoB or not.

Divineshadows · Mar 13, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

The simple fact is that every good team you face will use enchantments, but not every good team you face will use hexes.

I stand corrected on this one. Since the March 2nd update, the likelihood of facing hexes has gone up considerably in GvG, HA, and TA. While still not fully robust, inspired hex has become more reliable as a source of energy management.

Let's see if I have the correct understanding of inspired hex and how it interacts with diversion from the responses I received:

Situation A: Diversion get placed on you and then Mind Wrack. You cast inspired hex on self. Inspired Hex becomes Mind Wrack and Diversion leaves you while not diverting anything.

Situation B: Conjure Phantasm gets placed on you. You go to cast Inspired on self. Before you finish casting, Diversion lands on you. Inspired hex gets diverted and you still have Phantasm on you.

Situation C: Conjure Phantasm gets placed on you and then Diversion. You go to cast Inspired to take Diversion off. End result is same as situation B.

I may be way off on the interaction between diversion and inspired hex here, but this is how I view the responses so far. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Schorny · Mar 13, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Situation A: Diversion get placed on you and then Mind Wrack. You cast inspired hex on self. Inspired Hex becomes Mind Wrack and Diversion leaves you while not diverting anything.

correct

Quote:

Situation B: Conjure Phantasm gets placed on you. You go to cast Inspired on self. Before you finish casting, Diversion lands on you. Inspired hex gets diverted and you still have Phantasm on you.

wrong. insp hex gets diverted, but it still finishes the job of removing conjure. and because it removed conjure it becomes conjure and therefore it does not fall in recharge-state and diversion just disappeared.

Quote:

Situation C: Conjure Phantasm gets placed on you and then Diversion. You go to cast Inspired to take Diversion off. End result is same as situation B.

wrong.
result same as in B as I corrected it.

Quote:

Please correct me if I am wrong.

here you are

insp hex is easy to understand: if it is able to remove a hex, it becomes that hex and therefore bypassing an enhanced recharge because it never recharges.

you can't remove diversion from your self if you have only diversion and no other hex, because diversion triggers before insp hex can trigger and therefore insp hex can't catch diversion...

gwnewbie · Mar 14, 2006, 03:59 AM // 03:59

I'm an old school monk (mainly because i quit playing these last 4 months) that had played since release. I just recently stepped back into the world of guild wars. Now personally I like to play a heal monk and boon protters were just starting up when i left the game. Personally, I feel the game will go back to the WoH bar. and energy management? what about channeling? Now just wait a minute till you blast me all to pieces. I know channeling was kinda broken about 4 months ago, has this changed at all? I was playing in RA yesterday and channeling was working fine. Personally channeling works for me because it lasts for a long time, gives you energy when the battle is most heated (when there are the most players around you) and has a fast recharge.

If you would like to learn about the skill bar i run (its pretty much a classic heal monk) send me a tell ingame.

IGN His Almighty Grace, Knight Swiftsteel

Byron · Mar 14, 2006, 06:23 AM // 06:23

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Originally Posted by JR-

Ideally with MoR, you wont CoP at all. This way you just pay the 10 energy of casting it, instead of the 20 energy to cast it, CoP it, and put Boon back up.

The thing is, a CoP will heal you big time with 15 or 16 divine favor, so it becomes strategic. You have the option of just letting the timer do its work, or if you are under attack, CoP will heal full plus get rid of the deep wound, cripple, backfire, hex snares, and whatever else their team spike hits you with. The best boon prots i've seen use MoR, CoP, and Inspired hex for energy management. Using those skills, CoP has saved my own hide more than once in HA, and instead of costing 20 energy to save myself without MoR/CoP, it cost 0.

If your saying its stupid to chain MoR->CoP->boon for energy management, then yes, i agree with you.

Schorny · Mar 14, 2006, 11:50 AM // 11:50

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Originally Posted by gwnewbie

what about channeling? Now just wait a minute till you blast me all to pieces.

just 2 serious points:

first: channeling doesn't help you if you have no energy - for example after a res or after you got drained badly.

second: you can't get the full benefit of channling outside an altar map. becuase you will spend most of your time as far away from the enemy as possible.

ange1 · Mar 14, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

i'm still using oob, reason is simple
by the time i need some energy, half of my team would most likely be taking damage. and my heal party spammer is already at work =D

dgb · Mar 14, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

I stand corrected on this one. Since the March 2nd update, the likelihood of facing hexes has gone up considerably in GvG, HA, and TA. While still not fully robust, inspired hex has become more reliable as a source of energy management.

Aside from the increasing number of hexes (which received a huge buff with the hit to hex removal - I really don't understand this one Anet) if you are that worried about it that you would prefer drain enchant you could allways take inspired enchant instead. This also opens up an extra option that if you manage to steal MoR or peace and harmony (which is getting some experimental play) you can have great fun.

And as I say, you can beat two diversions - because the skill you stole you can cast knowing full well that it will swap back in less than 20 seconds, so it's fodder to eat the diversion.