Curse

Kabale · Mar 02, 2006, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Who mentioned Black Rose? Aren't they pretty much dead these days?

I can confirm that the majority of PUG+some guild ranger spikers are now *trying* to run necro spike. Most of them are still getting used to it...

The reasons why they changed to this build:

1. 7 healers (obviously)

2. Although ranger spike has relatively good holding power, they are often gank-victims, which is something the 7 necro build can handle better

3. Versatility (monk elites + BiP)

4. Soul reaping from spirit spam = free energy

5. Other teams are less likely to manage a successful spike on their Ghostly, as prot+healing enchantments are pretty much constantly being cast on him

So basically, instead of having interrupting power (like rspike) once their Ghostly is down, the build relies on the Ghostly not dying in the first place and being constantly protected.

ayanaftw · Mar 02, 2006, 01:43 PM // 13:43

what elites do they usually run now on the necros?

The Real Roy Keane · Mar 02, 2006, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn_rolfe

Plus all the debbie/power dribble in ID's makes me want to puke

Yes, I've also always found online 'love' to be more ghoulish than anything..
I think one of the draws of the build is that it can just about spike through fertile season(due to the nature of Shadow Strike),provided the infuser is a bit slow off the mark.

wheel · Mar 02, 2006, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy

Transformers Armada, but he has since ran off to WoW.

You mean Izzy.

Lord Dark Genie · Mar 02, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane

Yes, I've also always found online 'love' to be more ghoulish than anything..
I think one of the draws of the build is that it can just about spike through fertile season(due to the nature of Shadow Strike),provided the infuser is a bit slow off the mark.

Wait... Bloodspiking through fertile ? The infuser has to be a retard if he let's that happen. and we're not even talking about disrupting the spike.

JR · Mar 02, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by T Waters

im not flaming u JR but I can see that you dont get around much in tombs and you dont know most of whats going inside underworld all the way thru the map rotation to hall of heroes....

I wouldn't say my knowledge of HA had anything to do with my opinion on people who claim ownership of builds. Not that it would matter, I do keep up with what is going on, despite the fact that I haven't "tombed" in months thanks to the low competition level and gimmick builds.

However, I see your point. I just dislike people who claim builds, because usually (especially with things like rspike and IWAY) there are a dozen people who like to think they were the first to run it. Just a couple of weeks ago someone in IRC claimed to have invented the bonder. Well... no. I think Anet invented the bonder when they put that set of skills in the game.

Vindexus · Mar 02, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

You mean Izzy.

Wheel is always right.

Diva Satannica · Mar 03, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Elemental

Ordianry Blood Spike.. ill give the whole build after skool >_>

Can someone please post the build?

Thanks!

Boofhead · Mar 03, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

7 N/Mo, each have shadow strike, vamp gaze, awaken the blood, res sig.
1 has heal party, heal other, healing seed, healing hands, 1 has martyr
3 have mark of protection, aegis, 1 has mend ailment, guardian, 1 has convert hexes, guardian
We (BR) threw in a Well of Power and a Spellbreaker, and some extra healing/prot spells (infuse, vital blessing, life attunement etc) but YMMV.
Ranger has oath shot, QZ, frozen, fertile, symbiosis, savage, gale (although gale would be tougher now I think).

Boofhead · Mar 03, 2006, 08:30 PM // 20:30

oh yeah, take the 20/20 heal/prot recharge staves.

Diva Satannica · Mar 04, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boofhead

7 N/Mo, each have shadow strike, vamp gaze, awaken the blood, res sig.
1 has heal party, heal other, healing seed, healing hands, 1 has martyr
3 have mark of protection, aegis, 1 has mend ailment, guardian, 1 has convert hexes, guardian
We (BR) threw in a Well of Power and a Spellbreaker, and some extra healing/prot spells (infuse, vital blessing, life attunement etc) but YMMV.
Ranger has oath shot, QZ, frozen, fertile, symbiosis, savage, gale (although gale would be tougher now I think).

Thanks a lot Boofhead!

xcutioner · Mar 06, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramma77

Well it looks like every team is going to start taking a spirit spammer with symbiosis and fertile season. There is no spiking through both of them.

I've seen a spike team that put these down themselves and then spiked us down anyways, so you are wrong about that. The more common spikes won't work obviously, but their's was spot on.

The Noble Savage · Mar 07, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Why in the world are people spiking with Shadow Strike????

Spike with Feast of Coruption. 150 damage vs 100 damage. Same cast time. Then the initial spike would kill.

foc is an elite...

ayanaftw · Mar 09, 2006, 05:19 AM // 05:19

foc also has 20 sec recharge. and u prolly wanna hex up ur target too so that takes even more time. not to mention the ones with hexes are prolly gonna be proted up.

lishi · Mar 09, 2006, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Imo fertile season only make the thing harder for the healer :

More heath -> more damage by shadow strike -> more healing the infuser need after infuse.

and for who say infusing blood spike is easy ...

infusing is not a probrem , the probrem is keep infusing after few spike since normaly the monks run out of energy.

JR · Mar 09, 2006, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

Imo fertile season only make the thing harder for the healer :

More heath -> more damage by shadow strike -> more healing the infuser need after infuse.

Just because you have Fertile up, does not mean everyone still has to be at max HP all the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

and for who say infusing blood spike is easy ...

infusing is not a probrem , the probrem is keep infusing after few spike since normaly the monks run out of energy.

The main problem is the trend for SB infusers in tombs. The solution is fairly simple, run infuse on a monk with energy management. Alternatively, sqeeze a blood ritual into your build.

Guinea Fig · Mar 12, 2006, 05:42 PM // 17:42

It is the pressure of the build under QZ that really kills you. The spike itself is pretty piddly. 6 spikers and they can just barely reach the threshold on the initial spike. However, when it is working it has one of the biggest afterspikes in the game. Infusing it is usually pretty easy (it is easy to interrupt) but the problem is having the energy to infuse AND heal up after 3-4 spikes. Fertile and symbiosis will save you from the spike itself but actually put even more pressure on the monks with the extra shadow strike damage.

Energy management on the infuser will NOT save your team by itself. The crappy necro spikes are easy to take down like the crappy version of any build. When facing an experienced team your best chance is to actively disrupt 2~ of the heal necros. Then stick a warrior with knockdown on the monk or spirit spammer. Make sure QZ stays down if it gets up. Make sure the spirit spammer isn't feeding the 6 necros endless energy.

Like fighting any other spike team you will have to actively interrupt a spike if the other team is a decent spike group. The only exception is if you brought a very specific counter to that spike. Oath shot shields up against ranger spike for example. Oath shot spirits is fine but you had better have some active disruption since good spike groups kill spirits as soon as they go up. You can buy yourself 10~ or more seconds but thats all.. its not immunity. The problem is dealing enough damage to the spike group while still being able to actively interrupt so your people aren't falling. You ALSO can't just play too defensive or eventually someone will mess up and get spiked out.

Necro spike is a very good holding build and a very good ganking build. QZ/Frozen spamming plus tons prot spirit/block/evade/armor ignoring of damage anyone? That makes it great for HoH itself. Like all spikes its quite a bit tougher to play on a relic run so that is a brick wall newbie spikers have trouble with. Also necro spike itself seems to be kinda weak to the Europe FotM 2 Migraine mes tombs build if the 2 Mes just interrupt 2 N/Mo healer/spikers.

Once again STAY ON THE SPIRIT SPAMMER. Every time he gets off a spirit thats 54-60~ energy for the necros to beat you down with. Every time he gets down QZ thats more pressure on your monks ALONG with more spirits + barbed signets landing on your head.

R. Mindwalker · Mar 12, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Why are we discussing this? This Necro Spike or Pressure build like Debbie calls it sucks.
A. A good mesmer can ripe off 2 necros easy. He/she can even drink tea while doing it.
B. The necro's can only spike for 8 times then they are running on soulreaping.
C. If you are smart as SB infuser get Channeling up and stand next to the group of necro's. They can only wand(spike) you but you regain a load back from the channeling.
D. If the rest of your balance group isnt asleep you can easy drop a necro. If the necro doesnt drop, the others are healing him. That means they are not spiking any more.

C is true. I am a monk with lots of infusinghours even against Powers and Black Rose Necro spike. QZ doesnt bother me, it even helps me. SB recharges far faster with it and channeling feeds me with the energy i need. Oh and if they dont ball, get to the spirit spammer and stand next to him and his spirits.
Against Black Rose spike just let your prot monk "infuse" with you with his Prot spirit to counter the Flame.
Im sorry to say this but if you cant infuse necro spike go do something else.
Good luck flaming me.

Nerdy · Mar 12, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimson Eyes

the actual concept of a spirit spammer powering the rest of the team and then putting this idea in motion was from Empty Skillbars. Fact.

when empty skillbars ran their initial build, it was reflectance on our current tombs build which involved 3 monks, 2 mesmers, 1 warrior, 1 necro, an ele

what then happened was; the

monks became N/mo with offering of blood
(with spirit spammer was great energy)

mesmers became n/me
with ability to spam skills such as panic
and one of the mesmers becoming the actual spirit spammer

the necro stayed the same pretty much, but took blood ritual or BiP

the warrior stayed the same (w/r)

the ele became a n/mo with smiting skills to buff the warrior

We ran this build several times and were the first to run a build of this type, obviously the more we ran it, people caught on to what the exact idea was, and its evolved into the blood spike u see today, when shade of ange actually started holding halls with the same concept build as us, this was already 4 weeks after Empty Skillbars had been using it.

Remember it well. Going back a good few months this...We used to call it 'that necro frustration build'.

You guys used to have epic 40 minute+ battles where other teams would rage quit out of frustration. I used to laugh at your ranger spammer, as he could lay an incredible amount of spirits without getting any agro.

Obviously the spike modification has sped up the battles since then.

glenn_rolfe · Mar 14, 2006, 02:02 AM // 02:02

perhaps I'm missing something, but I've never lost to this build, even Power's group.

Oh, I take that back, once in halls we didn't get it off the alter because us and the otehr team interrupted each others ghost for the last 40 seconds, so necro spike held.

The build has more flaws than the empire state building