Curse

Maxiemonster · Mar 20, 2006, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Mantra of Recall is my, and most likely many others, favorite Energy Management skill since the rather recent update. But after using Offering of Blood for quite a while, Mantra of Recall was quite hard to handle, but after experience Mantra of Recall a couple of weeks, I'm getting the hang of it, and found out a couple of neat things that help you manage your Energy even better.

Enchantements last X% longer upgrades. This upgrade is very nice for many Monk builds (especially Boon Prot), but many people think these mess up Mantra of Recall, but they're quite wrong. When you don't use this upgrade, you can't cast Mantra of Recall untill you've already gained the Energy. You might think: "Isn't that perfect?". It's not. I'll explain you why.

You're using a Enchantments last X% longer upgrade. When you begin casting a spell, you loose the Energy the spell cost. If your Mantra of Recall spell almost (less the 1 second) ends, start casting Mantra of Recall again. This way you lose the 10 Energy, which Mantra of Recall cost, before you gain the Energy.

Why is this nice? You've got 10 points in Inspiration Magic, and you gain 23 Energy from Mantra of Recall. When you're at 40 of 53 Energy, and your Mantra of Recall ends, you'll be at 53 of 53 Energy, then you'll have to cast Mantra of Recall again, so you'll be at 43 of 53 Energy. If your Mantra of Recall is about to end, but you cast Mantra of Recall quicker, you'll be at 30 of 53 Energy, then Mantra of Recall ends, you'll be at 53 of 53 Energy.

This way you spare 10 Energy, which is quite nice. It's either this, or spamming some useless spells on teammates quick when you Mantra of Recall is about to end. I'd choose this. And in case your build can't really afford a Mantra of Recall that lost 20% longer, you might consider a Enchantements last 10% longer upgrade.

Thanks for reading. I hope this helped some of you.
Max.

TheArrow · Mar 20, 2006, 02:19 PM // 14:19

So reducing your energy gain by increasing the recycle time is a good thing now?

JR · Mar 20, 2006, 02:21 PM // 14:21

I don't really see how this makes the 20% enchantments part help? You get less time to use the energy you have without it? Funny, using energy never seems to be a problem on monk...

Maxiemonster · Mar 20, 2006, 02:24 PM // 14:24

It'll depend on the situation. You might not be doing anything with your Energy for 20 seconds, but you might need those 10 extra Energy the next recycle. Wasting 10 Energy alot is worse then having your recycle increased by 10-20%. And you're gaining longer duration on your other spells too, which gives you more profit too.

JR · Mar 20, 2006, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

It'll depend on the situation. You might not be doing anything with your Energy for 20 seconds, but you might need those 10 extra Energy the next recycle. Wasting 10 Energy alot is worse then having your recycle increased by 10-20%. And you're gaining longer duration on your other spells too, which gives you more profit too.

If you wont need energy for 20 seconds, then just delay casting it untill what you think will be the right time. In extended flag stand battles (personally I have had some last for 20 minutes without either side breaking) having that longer recharge mod is really going to gimp your energy management.

Infact when it comes right down to it, you would be far better off just using E-drain. If you are so bothered by flexibility and not net energy gain then it is clearly the right way to go, quite simply energy on demand.

Personally I prefer E-drain anyway. However there are countless threads about monk energy management already, so I wont get into that debate.

Maxiemonster · Mar 20, 2006, 02:40 PM // 14:40

E-Drain not having a breakpoint at 10 Inspiration was frustrating me, guess there's no other choice

SaintGreg · Mar 20, 2006, 04:31 PM // 16:31

I would think that if you are that skilled that you can time the cast of MoR to be just before it runs out every time, you could use energy drain to much greater effect anyways.

That is much preferable to MoR the normal way when at high energy, but when you are at low energy, having the lower cycle time gets you energy faster, which is better. Which is it more important to omptimize for - high energy or low energy?

Byron · Mar 20, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

I find myself playing a lot of boon-prot and active prot as well. So try this, if you're up for a gander:

1st weapon slot:
Holy staff, +5 energy, + 30 health

2nd weapon slot:
sword of enchanting, +20% enchantment duration
divine symbol, +15 energy, -1 energy regen

3rd slot:
empty

I've got nothing but good things to say about these slots, as I doubt I ever get a hod sword. Swap to slot 2 for Aegis and prot spirit, as well as for emergency energy. Swap to slot 3 for e-denial, maybe even put a req 0 shield in there if you can, as every litte bit helps.

As for MoR lasting longer, I can't seem to follow your logic. Sorry...

forever · Mar 20, 2006, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Unrealistic and unpractical. You can't catch the less than 1 second window every time you cast MoR. So most likely, you either cast too early and don't get the energy return or cast too late and end up just like without X% enchantment longer mod.

Billiard · Mar 20, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Without the 20% mod MoR is really easy to use - you hit it when it recharges unless you are being pressed for energy at that moment. If you have to attend to it more than that you increase the likelihood of missing a spike or not being able to see what is going on in the battle and thus not pre-prot.

yesitsrob · Mar 20, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

I think I understand what your saying - spend the energy for the next recall just before the other ends... thing is, in my opinion that is a lot of messing about, and very risky, especially as a monk - if you miss the small window you've either got it too late, in which case it's no different than normal - or worse, you've got it too early and you've severely RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up your energy management and will have to wait another 20 seconds (or 24 as it is in your case) for the next energy income - and that will seem like forever when you're wallowing away at 10 energy when it could have been 33

Bugeater · Mar 20, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Either I'm not understanding your post or you're argument doesn't make much sense.

What I think you're saying is that 20% mods don't hurt MoR since you can carefully time the recast of MoR so the current one expires during your recast. I guess your argument is that instead of a 25 second recycle time (24 second enchant + 1 second recast) you can get it down to nearly 24 seconds.

Since you can time the recast the same with or without the 20% mods this really means the mods are worse than they would be without the careful timing. If you're recasting after the gain, your recycle time would be jump from 21 seconds to 25 seconds with the mod: a 19% increase in time without energy. With precise timing your recycle time would raise from nearly 20 seconds to nearly 24 seconds: an increase of 26% waiting for your energy gain.

And it seems that this precise timing will make the bigger difference the closer you are to max energy, so you'll be wasting your MoR return by maxing out. The rest of the time you'll be gleaning very minor returns from such timing. As discussed in another thread MoR screws you if you're out of energy (costing 10 up front as opposed to 5) or if it gets drained while you're high on energy.

Ensign · Mar 20, 2006, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugeater

What I think you're saying is that 20% mods don't hurt MoR since you can carefully time the recast of MoR so the current one expires during your recast. I guess your argument is that instead of a 25 second recycle time (24 second enchant + 1 second recast) you can get it down to nearly 24 seconds.

The argument is that it's on a 24 (plus) second recycle, but that you can start recasting the Mantra before it ends, meaning you spend the energy for the next Mantra *before* it pops, potentially leaving you at a higher energy level than if you had waited for the Mantra to pop to recast.

The counterargument is that it's a lot of micromanagement for a pretty marginal gain. This is only a benefit of you're riding high energy already, and if that's the case you're in good shape anyway. When you're riding low energy it doesn't matter if you cast the Mantra before or after because you should have the empty capacity to handle a Mantra pop, then you just want the fastest recycle possible. Mantra of Recall monks want to be using tattoos and foci as much as possible, to maximize the size of their energy capacity and make it easier to get the full benefit of a Mantra pop.

Peace,
-CxE

Dodo The Extinct · Mar 20, 2006, 11:20 PM // 23:20

I`m glad some people finally get how to play MoR. Once u get the hang of it, it is VERY good. I`ve gotten 52 wins with it in CA. It is beautiful

TheOneMephisto · Mar 21, 2006, 02:16 AM // 02:16

RA success =/= good

Also how often do you meet edenial in RA?
How often do you meet edenial in GvG?

Big difference buddy. MoR SUCKS against edenial.

Byron · Mar 21, 2006, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

MoR SUCKS against edenial.

This is true, but everything sucks against e-denial.

There's too many other threads regarding this issue, so i'll just arbitrarily say, Distracting shot FTW.

tafy69 · Mar 21, 2006, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Using mantra vs edeinial isnt great, the main drawback is the 10 energy cost and then the long 20 seconds wait.

Energy drain is much better imo as you get the energy to use right away and it only costs 5 energy to cast.

Oh and using 20% enchant mod with recall is bad idea, If you cast it too early you get no energy back right as you just renewed the timer on it for 24 seconds?

D Fault · Mar 21, 2006, 07:06 AM // 07:06

An alternative to using an enchat weapon to do this is to have an improves skill recharge mod for inspiration. MoR will have a chance to recharge faster so you'll be able to apply the above method. Also helps if you had to CoP it off at some point.

JR · Mar 21, 2006, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The argument is that it's on a 24 (plus) second recycle, but that you can start recasting the Mantra before it ends, meaning you spend the energy for the next Mantra *before* it pops, potentially leaving you at a higher energy level than if you had waited for the Mantra to pop to recast.

The counterargument is that it's a lot of micromanagement for a pretty marginal gain. This is only a benefit of you're riding high energy already, and if that's the case you're in good shape anyway. When you're riding low energy it doesn't matter if you cast the Mantra before or after because you should have the empty capacity to handle a Mantra pop, then you just want the fastest recycle possible. Mantra of Recall monks want to be using tattoos and foci as much as possible, to maximize the size of their energy capacity and make it easier to get the full benefit of a Mantra pop.

Peace,
-CxE

Case closed.