Curse

Vermilion Okeanos · Mar 19, 2006, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Some word of advice.

1) There are plenty of reasons why everyone here say "ENERGY MANAGEMENT". Do not disregard it.

2) Without a superior energy management, I suggest using regenerative method to heal. Increasing armor + regeneration will require you to heal alot less and more time to regen your own energy.

3) No matter what you do, if you do not have a good energy management (even with the like of above advice), you will eventually get worn out. Just a matter of time.
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A good E-denial own every caster regardless of good energy management or not anyway... so w/e.

dgb · Mar 19, 2006, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldplay

Breaking opposite team monks' RoF by small attacks such as wanding, pets' natural attack, making their 7 energy cost spell only heals 60hp, that is also your energy management.

Uh, a Boon-Prot runs at 16 DF, 10 Prot, 9 Inspir these days. Boon + DF = 125 healing, without the RoF converting. So I don't know where you're getting your 60hp at - I don't know any Boon-Prot who runs at 6 DF.

coldplay · Mar 19, 2006, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgb

Uh, a Boon-Prot runs at 16 DF, 10 Prot, 9 Inspir these days. Boon + DF = 125 healing, without the RoF converting. So I don't know where you're getting your 60hp at - I don't know any Boon-Prot who runs at 6 DF.

yeah, this number is off. I meant break rof only which is heals 58 at protection 10. Small attacks like wanding is good for making RoF look bad, I will erase that part

Quote:

Some word of advice.

1) There are plenty of reasons why everyone here say "ENERGY MANAGEMENT". Do not disregard it.

2) Without a superior energy management, I suggest using regenerative method to heal. Increasing armor + regeneration will require you to heal alot less and more time to regen your own energy.

3) No matter what you do, if you do not have a good energy management (even with the like of above advice), you will eventually get worn out. Just a matter of time.
=====

A good E-denial own every caster regardless of good energy management or not anyway... so w/e.

thx, I just want to try mo/w here. I dont want myself get locked in a mo/me box even its a hot wave. Exploring every possibility of monking is fun.

Good e-denial mesmers are killer for monks. But hey, I got good warriors in my team. Monks aint alone.

Byron · Mar 19, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

What I've read in this post is the #1 reason why most monks are HORRIBLE.

If you cannot manage your energy without using any energy gain skills you are not cut out to be a monk. Knowing when to heal is more important then spamming the heal and recovering the energy later. Yes, it is easier to do it that way but you usually give up your elite just to gain energy.

Now, I don't claim to be an expert, but I've had some extensive monk experience.

Yes, overhealing is a great and a common crime, but so is thinking that you are good enough to counter e-denial or a degen build on skill alone. I'm not sure if you have ever experienced a good team's pressure, but consider this:

You've got a shock axe with bull's strike, shock, and rush along with the typical big hurt attacks coming after you. At the same time, a mesmer is draining all your energy and interrupting any guardians you can manage to get off. Focus swapping isnt gonna keep you alive with a warrior on your back, and your fellow monks have their own problems to deal with.

However, focus swapping and an e-drain might. Focus swapping and a MoR/CoP might. Even channeling will give you a better chance at surviving than no energy gain at all. I think you should consider the whole picture before making generalizations, is all. I'd like to hear a veteran's opinion on the issue, personally.

YunSooJin · Mar 19, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Any decent team will leave you begging for more energy. period.

After your energy pool has been drained, you need to get more. This is where energy management comes in. Waiting for the little pips to bring your energy back up isn't going to cut it.. lol.

Mared Text · Mar 20, 2006, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Yeah, I'm a fan of engineering new builds, but if you encounter a mesmer, gg. Energy denial is a bigger problem than Knockdown, becuase on an 8v8 you will have other monks to give you health. No one, in a respectable build anyway, will give you energy, so it is the monk's responsibility to manage his/her own energy.

Evil uses a blood ritual necro.

Byron · Mar 20, 2006, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mared Text

Evil uses a blood ritual necro.

If memory serves, EvIL also has heavy bonding monks and uses signet of devotion very often to heal. Very effective considering then you can use purge signet and blessed signet with no ill consequence. Blood ritual isn't going to do much for a monk maintaining 16 bonds, so if they use it, I'm sure they use it for the other casters, more especially the heal party spammer.

That build is the exception rather than the rule, and I probably overstepped my bounds by generalizing that no one will give you energy.

super dooper · Mar 20, 2006, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

If memory serves, EvIL also has heavy bonding monks and uses signet of devotion very often to heal.

last i saw they ran two boon prots ;o

you don't necessarily 'need' energy management skills in a build like this. unless they are CONSTANTLY keeping you at 0 with cycled surge/burns/weariness/debilitating somehow, or are using ether lord/fear me (haven't seen that recently) to keep you at 0 after they drain you, then you will be able to run off of the 4 pips of regen if you choose your heals carefully.

all or most of your skill bar focuses on 5 energy skills or SoD to help manage your energy, and combined with weapon switching and assuming your offense isn't picking their noses, it's not all that far-fetched to sacrifice MoR/ED/OoB to keep yourself out of knocklocks and (maybe) carry a Shields Up!.

i don't think it'd be a good idea to run it if you didn't adjust the team build accordingly though (looking at this from a gvg perspective), like say adding more offensive disruption or hex removal to make up for the lack of defense provided by the second boon prot. (assuming you were running it in a 2 monk backline)

not that we're top20 or anything, but everytime we tried running something similar to this guy in a 2 monk backline we lost staying power because we didn't adjust the team build to accommodate him. (we were really short on offensive disruption and defense to begin with, and adding the healing monk seemed to get us rolled faster

). i guess what i'm saying is that the team build is possibly more important than the individual build when looking to add a character like this. (i guess that could be said about alot of builds eh..)

JR · Mar 20, 2006, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

If memory serves, EvIL also has heavy bonding monks and uses signet of devotion very often to heal.

EvIL uses Boon Prots, not bonders.

Byron · Mar 20, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Thanks for clearing up the EvIL issue, guys. I do remember them running bonders at one point, but maybe i'm just delirious.

But its not a bad idea, is it? No energy = signet pwnge. Desecrate enchantments has a what...15 or 20 second recharge? Of course, a good adrenaline spike would be GG.

JR · Mar 20, 2006, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Thanks for clearing up the EvIL issue, guys. I do remember them running bonders at one point, but maybe i'm just delirious.

But its not a bad idea, is it? No energy = signet pwnge. Desecrate enchantments has a what...15 or 20 second recharge? Of course, a good adrenaline spike would be GG.

A lot of people tried signet monk builds back in the old hardcore e-denial days. It never really took off due to the weakness of most signets.

DarkAynjil · Mar 20, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldplay

No, I didnt notice a BR caster cuz there were not any BR casters.

I need energy management but I dont need these energy gain skills if I dont run boon healer.

No, it was a 2 monk backline, one of them was a mo/w with balance stance and WoH.

every monk gotta have energy management but not every monk gotta have energy gain skill equipped.

Also, I have never thought of this build is supieror over any other monk builds, I even stated that I dont have a chance run this build in GvG so I dont know if its doable in GvG. This is an expiremental build, only places I've tested it are RA and TA, I only stated that its good in RA and TA.

com on, I play monk character in pvp for a long time already, I used to play monk in top 200 guild before my guild disbanded. I know all these common sense about mo/n, mo/me, energy management, etc. Well, this time I want to try out something new. Bringing up some common sense instead of constructive criticism really isnt helping me.

Ok, why balanced stance over bonettis? IIRC, Bonetti's Defense was the skill of choice for Mo/W healers back in the day... I remember using it myself, even. I see that you're split between prot and healing, and i think if you popped in aegis and mend condition/ailment, possibly switched WoH to RC, you would be able to get away with a 9 (8+1) prot attribute, perhaps a 7 tac and a little higher healing att. It's what I do when I run Hybrid builds. Just an opinion.

JR · Mar 20, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAynjil

Ok, why balanced stance over bonettis?

Gale, Shock, Bull's Strike, Bull's Charge, Hammer Warriors.

Byron · Mar 20, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAynjil

Ok, why balanced stance over bonettis? IIRC, Bonetti's Defense was the skill of choice for Mo/W healers back in the day... I remember using it myself, even.

To quote the skill description, "Bonetti's Defense ends if you use a skill." Also those things JR mentioned are quite reasonable. I'm sure its fun to try out, and will likely work against your typical arena warrior, though.

I did see some Mo/W in <100 GvG recently, but it may just be the FotM.

JR · Mar 20, 2006, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

I did see some Mo/W in <100 GvG recently, but it may just be the FotM.

Rifts did run a Mo/W Word healer with balanced stance. Very effective in the pre-skills update Gale Warrior metagame. Not so usefull now.

coldplay · Mar 20, 2006, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAynjil

i think if you popped in aegis and mend condition/ailment, possibly switched WoH to RC,

IMO, Aegis is the skill that this build cant afford. I may replace MA with MC if I have teammate monks. WoH and Blance Stance are key skills in this build, they are irreplaceable to me.

DarkAynjil · Mar 20, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldplay

IMO, Aegis is the skill that this build cant afford. I may replace MA with MC if I have teammate monks. WoH and Blance Stance are key skills in this build, they are irreplaceable to me.

Perhaps you could run both balanced and bonetti's - either are useful for kiting, or re-grouping. WoH is good, but if you run it, I would also take Aegis - It's 15e to cast, but if used in an Aegis chain, it should be manageable. Dolyak signet might also be an option for avoiding knockdowns, even with 0 strength. Although I have found the best way to deal with hammer warriors is either sympathetic visage or soothing images

I haven't really seen the value of guardian in HA or GvG yet (other than as a pre-prot/cover ench./CoP fodder.)

yesitsrob · Mar 21, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31

I was about to say - the energy management is skills such as word of healing, just not energy management in the form of something that makes your blue energy bar go up

JR · Mar 21, 2006, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

I was about to say - the energy management is skills such as word of healing, just not energy management in the form of something that makes your blue energy bar go up

Indeed. Every time you cast it and gain the bonus heal on someone under 50% health, you are basicly saving yourself the 5 energy it would have cost to use a Heal Other instead. Not to mention even without the bonus it is a tad more powerfull than your standard Orison.

Mage Henchnem · Mar 21, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

I think that a Mo/W is a great concept for a soloist type build. I have noticed everyone talking about how balanced stance can help so much against gale and other knockdowns. and watch yourself, witch is pretty much a good skill but requires spamming to really be effective.

I think that energy management is more importand then being a tank as a monk, thats what the rest of your team is for, you have a prot to help you avoid dmg and have it reduced when you do take it, another monk to heal you when you cant heal yourself, and more then likely an ele to have wards, or maybe blinds to defend you as well, not to mention a trapper, to snare/blind opponents as well.

Morale of the story, BALANCE. Yes, I think that a Mo/W is a great idea of you aren't going to have any support, but if you are, then work on being the more effective healer, rather then the all-in-wounder, or jack of all trades, master of none.

And if your coming to HA with no support, you should evaluate who you play with.