Curse

The Noble Savage · Mar 17, 2006, 07:01 AM // 07:01

I cannot decide on which elite to use. I know mantra of recall is loger recharge but it helps contemplate, u can cast before the battle starts, and it still give energy when shattered. Energy drain lower recharge lower cost less energy given back... I DUNNO WHICH SHOULD I PUT ON MY BOON PROTS IN GVG? and what would you use on a boon HEALER?

Dzan · Mar 17, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Energy Drain on Boon Prot is better in my opinion. I wouldn't ever run a boon healer, but if I had to I would use Energy Drain too.

The main drawback, in my mind, is that Mantra of Recall 1. doesn't help you against heavy energy denial and 2. doesnt help you recover energy quickly when you are ressed. In my mind, either of those two reasons are big enough drawbacks to make me not want to run Mantra of Recall, and both together is overkill.

When you are facing heavy e-denial you want to be able to swap foci and cast an energy spell and swap back to your hidden energy set and then cast your heals. Mantra of Recall punishes you for using a hidden energy set, since after you cast it and switch back you'll have even less energy than when you started and you have to wait for Mantra to end, or use a Contemplation which costs you more energy and if you arent hexed you probably don't need.

As far as recovering from death, its a no brainer. You are ressed and have about 10-11 energy. Your priorities are recasting your Boon so you can operate and regaining energy. If you res and the first thing you do is cast Mantra, you will be almost out of energy and your next move will have to be to Contemplate, followed by Divine Boon, which puts you at... about 10-15 energy, which is where you started. You haven't gain much more than if you had just ressed and cast Boon and nothing else.

The cons of Energy Drain are the slowness in targetting. Usually pressing 'c' when you need it will bring up a warrior, who are decent E-drain targets, since they only need to have 8 energy on them. On the other hand, if your team's target caller has a target up and he isnt too far in their back lines, you can hit 't' and drain him quickly and contribute to the offense. All told, its one key stroke slower than OoB was and not nearly as good. Despite that, I think it's still clearly better than MoR.

wheel · Mar 17, 2006, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Check out this thread for an excellent comparison of the costs and benefits of energy management for monks.

Ensign · Mar 17, 2006, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Offering of Blood is the strongest emanagement, but you get rocked by warriors or any sort of spike.

Mantra of Recall is a decent option, but is incredibly prone to disruption and you get destroyed by a domination mesmer.

Energy Drain isn't really impressive for emanagement, but it does some splash edenial and it's relatively safe.

Most top players aren't gamblers with their emanagement and run EDrain, but at lower tiers of GvG one of the other options may be better, since they're less likely to be punished.

Peace,
-CxE

projectnavi · Mar 17, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

why don't you try both and see for yourself?

thats what i did after the patch, it works !

the two main monks of my guilds (me and someone else) have different opinion on it.

i play with energy drain, and he goes with mantra.

as was pointed, mantra is hell when you die. 10 energy cast and 20 sec wait for your energy is painful.

and dont come and tell me you can CoP it...yeah you can, so thats 10 energy cast, 5 CoP (7 under boon), then 5 to cast boon back up...so there goes your 20 energy...and now you are waiting for it to recharge in order to cast it back up...

as for energy drain, the obvious drawback is that you can drain an empty target, thus getting very little energy.

well my main char is a mesmer, so i have extended training at finding targets and sucking them dry, so i have a pretty fast chosing mind for targets that are prone to having energy.

i would say i drain an empty target once every 15 drain or so.

Good luck.

its really a matter of preference. i went with the more flexible option to me, and that was e.drain.

The Noble Savage · Mar 17, 2006, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Wheel you are money! that thread is great. phew.

BuddyLeeX · Mar 19, 2006, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Its not really a comparison of which one has better energy gain and costs, etc. Both are near the same, somewhat but the key problem with energy drain, especially as a monk, is you have to target a foe, and just hope to god he has 10-12 energy for you to drain from him.

This can be a problem cause you dont want to scroll through the targets until u get to a monk or mesmer or ele, especially against a spike team.

Mantra is awsome with CoP. The first time I played a mantra monk was with my guilds first GvG of the season, and I have to say I prefer it a lot more than the old school OOB and I have also played an energy drain monk and I have to say I hate it. Most of the time I end up with something like 6 energy to no energy. Mantra is constant energy, and if you need energy NOW just use CoP and there is your energy.

I mean on the other hand, its GREAT for the offense, because the monks are now contributing to the e-denial of the other team's casters, if there are any.

JR · Mar 19, 2006, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuddyLeeX

Its not really a comparison of which one has better energy gain and costs, etc. Both are near the same, somewhat but the key problem with energy drain, especially as a monk, is you have to target a foe, and just hope to god he has 10-12 energy for you to drain from him.

If you run the standard 9 inspiration, they only need 8 energy. And it's not hard at all. Even if you just Tab->Drain you will probably get the full amount most of the time. Plus it's hardly hard just to click an ele or offensive caster and drain them.

BuddyLeeX · Mar 19, 2006, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

If you run the standard 9 inspiration, they only need 8 energy. And it's not hard at all. Even if you just Tab->Drain you will probably get the full amount most of the time. Plus it's hardly hard just to click an ele or offensive caster and drain them.

The couple guest GvGs I did with energy drain did not work out well at all. I tried the TAB->Energy Drain technique and about 1/4 times I got a sufficient amount of energy, sometimes I would even get no energy. So I decided to target an emo, or a mesmer even a monk. Most of the time I got the full amount from an emo due to the large energy pool they have, but to me it is a pain, especially as a monk, to keep tabbing or pick out an emo or ele of some kind in order to get energy. I am too focused on enemy warriors to counter spikes and my own guildsman.

The only bad thing I have seen about MoR is when he get removed or shattered whenever you do not want the energy, and yes it can be interupted.

JR · Mar 19, 2006, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuddyLeeX

The only bad thing I have seen about MoR is when he get removed or shattered whenever you do not want the energy, and yes it can be interupted.

Or they can shatter/drain it and then edeny you. At which point you are screwed because if you put MoR back up, you have to spend 10 energy and get no return for 20 seconds. Digging yourself deeper into e-denial Unless of course you then CoP it, but then you are spending 15, so an even smaller net gain. The same applies when you die, and are ressed.

With Edrain you can drain someone the second you get 5 energy for an instant non-gimped return.

D Fault · Mar 19, 2006, 04:27 AM // 04:27

When you use MoR, CoPing it will net you a total of 2 energy (at 9 insp).
It cost 10 for MoR, 5 for CoP, and 5 more to put boon up again.
Whoopee...

Rustjive · Mar 19, 2006, 04:29 AM // 04:29

EDrain. Both it and MoR are prone to Power Leak (which has surfaced because the two are interruptible), but MoR has the added disadvantage with that an opposing mesmer can manipulate your energy through drains. This is in addition to the res disadvantage, the difficulty of usage, the lack of equipment advantages, etc.

But if your team is coordinated, you can run OoB. The key is communicating to your heal party guy that a heal party is needed, and timing the OoB just before.

Wretchman Drake · Mar 19, 2006, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Mantra of Recall by far is better than Energy Drain IMO. You need to count on your enemy to have energy, you have to target an enemy and go to him/her for the energy...

Mantra of Recall, I found a good trick. Run Boon with Mantra while playing monk, and if you need energy quick, hit Contemplation of Purity and boom, you're energy is back. However, make sure your inspiration is to the point where you would achieve 20+ energy.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Mar 19, 2006, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

Mantra of Recall by far is better than Energy Drain IMO. You need to count on your enemy to have energy, you have to target an enemy and go to him/her for the energy...

Mantra of Recall, I found a good trick. Run Boon with Mantra while playing monk, and if you need energy quick, hit Contemplation of Purity and boom, you're energy is back. However, make sure your inspiration is to the point where you would achieve 20+ energy.

You didn't read much of this did you?

I'm for E-drain, slight offensive ability and energy when you want. MoR doesn't always give you what you need when you need it. And as JR said it is like digging yourself into a hole. It is is like putting money into a savings bond. You put in money and it returns as more, but until you cash it you are down in total.

fallot · Mar 19, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

Mantra of Recall, I found a good trick. Run Boon with Mantra while playing monk, and if you need energy quick, hit Contemplation of Purity and boom, you're energy is back.

This isnt "a good trick". Its common knowledge. Unfortunately, its a waste of energy. You have spent quite a bit of energy (CoP and reapplying boon) and therefore the net gain decreases a lot.

Zeldawind · Mar 19, 2006, 05:44 PM // 17:44

the most important difference between using E drain and MoR is personal preference, a skill like E drain doesnt suit my playing style as a monk since i have to get to high in front line sometimes and MoR suits my style more since i can stay in the back and gain consistent energy and for the thingy whit CoP and all i hardly use CoP in GvG only whit very important hexes and for E cover i always have a empty handset so in case of drainers owel youll always have problems whit them, but its just how good you are able to handle whit it and how good you can work together whit your team imo.

Dzan · Mar 19, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Zelda, the problem is, MoR is less efficient tactically. Even though you are used to using it, its worse, don;t think of it as your personal play style, think of it as a bad habit. Anytime you use a less efficient skill to do a job that could be done more efficiently in another way you are hurting your team's overall build.
If everyone one your team used slightly worse skill choices (Cleave over Evis; or Elemental Attunement over Ether Prodigy for example) the overall effect would be pretty negative to your team. The best thing to do as a team player is learn to play with the most efficient skills until you are used to them.

icemonkey · Mar 19, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

br on another character > all

Clusmas · Mar 19, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Heh we run bip, it's a tad better than br. If it fits that is.

Anyway, if you die and are using edrain, you immediately have access to an energy top up, providing there is a foe around. Whereas with MoR you have to wait for your energy to regain upto 10, then either wait another 20 seconds or cast CoP. Obviously that's quite ineffiecent.

So all in all, edrain is the sensible, safer option.

Hunter Killer · Mar 21, 2006, 06:38 AM // 06:38

MoR is too situational, as others have noted, and the potential returns on it is too little in most situations. The only bonus I see MoR having is a little higher return given the right situation, and maybe an extra condition/hex off when needed.

Energy drain on the other hand, is not so much situational, as seeing the enemy needs merely 8 energy for it to be effective. This is a much safer alternative.

Situational in GvG = not good.