Curse

Hunter Killer · Mar 21, 2006, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

Well you can try and spike these mesmers but its actually quite hard to do, first is distortion and second is their spider sence that danger is aproaching their way.

The monks also know that these mesmers are 1st on any target hitlist and prot accordingly.

Thats the whole point, if two warriors are hitting at a mesmer in distortion, he will have no energy within seconds, meaning they have no energy to cast on your monks anymore, and unless they get out of there, the distortion will end leaving them with no energy and completely vulnerable. Not to mention their monks will be low on energy from the constant heal/guardians, and they would have to move up to cast on the mesmers leaving them vulnerable to your casters.

tafy69 · Mar 21, 2006, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Yeah you can do that stall tactic all game till vod, cant see how it would help you win tbh.

As soon you attack a mesmer he runs to the backline, then you gota break off your attack, then mesmer comes back out and gets off a spell. You go back on him and the whole process repeats itself untill vod.

Wasteland Squidget · Mar 21, 2006, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

Yeah you can do that stall tactic all game till vod, cant see how it would help you win tbh.

As soon you attack a mesmer he runs to the backline, then you gota break off your attack, then mesmer comes back out and gets off a spell. You go back on him and the whole process repeats itself untill vod.

So their Mesmer is having to constantly kite back and forth around the battlefield while occasionally getting a spell off, rather than sitting freely on your frontline and raging your monk's faces. When the Mesmer extends the warriors can hit him and force him to kite, and when he pulls back they can hit other things and deal damage. Either way you've created offensive disruption and more importantly you've made an assymetric trade in your favor.

It is much more difficult for that Mesmer to have to constantly kite away from your warriors than it is for your warriors to occasionally get in his face when he extends. Further, his efficency is greatly reduced because he only rarely gets a spell of at your backline, while the only loss of efficency in your warriors is whiffing a few swings because of Distortion.

If you're forcing their Mesmers back your monks have free reign to deal with their unsupported offense and your own offensive pressure will wear down the enemy team. That's a winning proposition.

tafy69 · Mar 21, 2006, 10:01 AM // 10:01

What you just described is not a winning proposition imo. Trading off Warriors for mesmers so you can heal the damage their warriors are doing is just stalling the inevitable.

What if they got 3 monks that can chain guardian/Aegis so that mesmer can just run in circles and cast whenever he can or when its recharged.

You gota deal with some things and currently there are large numbers of teams running dual surge mesmers.

JR · Mar 21, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

I agree to an extent with Tafy here.

If you are continually changing targets to pressure the Mesmers who will be packing Distortion, it is going to severely gimp your Warriors adrenaline gain and ability to spike. Whilst I agree that the Mesmers *do* need to be pressured, ideally it wont be your Warriors that have to do it every time.

The other alternative is powering through it, using something like a Necro with Blood Ritual can work very effectively with focus swapping to reduce the effects of edenial. However this does rely on your ability to push on and drop some offensive characters fairly quickly, which you may struggle to do against builds such as iB's three monk backline.

Vindexus · Mar 21, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

54+54 (shadow X2 when foe is +50% hp)

So a 108 damage spike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

, +54 for dark-pact (meant to say dark pact instead of dark bond, my bad, i was leaving for work and typing fast) and +63 for vampiric gaze. 54+54+54+63=225
its actually more like a 279 point spike since dark-pact can be triggered immidiatly after vampiric gaze, and 333 if you use DP+SS+DP+VG+DP in that order.

Follow ups don't count when you calculate spike damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

as for defile flesh not being useful; it lowers the amount of HP they gain from heals by 30%...one of the more devastating hex combinations in the game is defile flesh+lingering curse, often with parasitic bond as a cover-hex; lowering the amount of heal gained by 60% (technically 70%, but GW tends to round down on each curse's effects).

Defile Flesh is all right, I'll give you that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

as for life siphon; no thanks, i would parasitic bond over LS any day of the week

That's a bad decision because Life Siphon is 3 times the degen and gives you 3 health regeneration. In other words, it's usefull. Parasitic is only usefull as a cover hex, and it does that well, but beyond that the -1 degen is far from scary.

BuddyLeeX · Mar 21, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Energy Denial as a monk is simple to counter against. They need to learn how to hide their energy and how to weapon swap to a high energy -1 regen item or a regular item to cast a spell then swap back.

I understand it is still hard, but they must rely on the offense to spike a mesmer or a monk in order to ease the pain of the edrained monk. Also, if they are some kind of hexer or shutdown monk, CoP is a great skill for any gvg monk build especially boon prot.

As far as adding BR into your build, it might help but you are relying too highly on one person to feed energy regen to your monks. Also, you must realize that energy regen is not energy gain. This enchantment could be fuel for an offensive spike as well.

Hunter Killer · Mar 22, 2006, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

What you just described is not a winning proposition imo. Trading off Warriors for mesmers so you can heal the damage their warriors are doing is just stalling the inevitable.

What if they got 3 monks that can chain guardian/Aegis so that mesmer can just run in circles and cast whenever he can or when its recharged.

You gota deal with some things and currently there are large numbers of teams running dual surge mesmers.

Actually, when done right, you can score kills on the mesmers about 80% of the time (from experience), which is why extension is so sensitive when playing in high level GvG, esp when facing multiple warriors with KD

Akhilleus · Mar 22, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

So a 108 damage spike.

Follow ups don't count when you calculate spike damage.

Defile Flesh is all right, I'll give you that.

That's a bad decision because Life Siphon is 3 times the degen and gives you 3 health regeneration. In other words, it's usefull. Parasitic is only usefull as a cover hex, and it does that well, but beyond that the -1 degen is far from scary.

the point was, its not a hex-heavy build.
yes, life siphon helps, but if its between -3 hp regen on the enemy, and -2 mana regen, ill take the latter.
i advertised the build as a versatile one; capable of good damage, decent support and an ability to slap on the occasional helpful hex. and in that role it succeeds.
it sure as hell beats a necro build that might as well bring only br/bip and a res sig, which is basically what this thread was suggesting people add into gvg teams. i merely proposed what seems to me to be a rather useful alternative; and oen thats worked well in the past.

Vindexus · Mar 22, 2006, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

the point was, its not a hex-heavy build.
yes, life siphon helps, but if its between -3 hp regen on the enemy, and -2 mana regen, ill take the latter.
i advertised the build as a versatile one; capable of good damage, decent support and an ability to slap on the occasional helpful hex. and in that role it succeeds.
it sure as hell beats a necro build that might as well bring only br/bip and a res sig, which is basically what this thread was suggesting people add into gvg teams. i merely proposed what seems to me to be a rather useful alternative; and oen thats worked well in the past.

I have to agree with you that simply adding a necro with BiP or BR is a bad idea. You can get a LOT of utility out of a blood necro, as you've shown, and you can throw a Blood Rit on them to boot. Blood N/Mo's are the best class in the game.

Hunter Killer · Mar 22, 2006, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

Blood N/Mo's are the best class in the game.

In terms of...? Team support, damage, versatility, etc. I seriously doubt a N/Mo are the best class in the game period

tafy69 · Mar 22, 2006, 06:52 AM // 06:52

I kinda agree on Vin on that one. The Necro is a super all rounder in GvG.

Currently I am working a blood/curse necro into the GvG build, ofcourse on his own he will be rather ineffective so I need to change other characters to be more hex focused.

I did think about adding Surger with BR, but the necro is just too handy not to use

Current Necro build im planning to use, Lots of people dont like enfeeble but I think the ability to shutdown warriors with hex or condition is very powerfull.

Feintheartedness
Life Siphon
Parasitic bond
Enfeeble
Vamp Gaze
Blood Ritual
OOB
Rez

Hunter Killer · Mar 23, 2006, 03:25 AM // 03:25

And how is this build theoretically better than everything else? An E/Mo would benefit a party just as much with say, speed debuffs, heal party spam, wards, blinding flash, and etc.

D Fault · Mar 23, 2006, 04:42 AM // 04:42

N/Mos are useful because they can spike, degen, heal, support, shutdown and their energy management can come from their primary attribute, freeing up more space on their bar.

Akhilleus · Mar 23, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

not to mention that if you're a hex-heavy team; high-level soul barbs is a must.