Curse

minor · Mar 23, 2006, 06:04 PM // 18:04

This is just my ideas am looking for some input, maybe when finished itll make a decent sticky!

Now to the ranking of the guilds
1-25
These are the best of the best of course. To be in one of the top guilds you have to have a lot of time, a very intelligent mind when it comes to the game, and great reflexs. You are either this good or you aren't; and most people aren't.
26-100
Good players, gvging regularly and can put up a decent fight againist most teams.
101-500
Not quite top 100 material, pretty good players, sometimes have troubling playing regularly or have guest ppl who aren't the best. Still making an effort to be competive.
500-
Sorry to say most teams i see down here need serious help.

Next we ll see what the top guilds do to be where they are.

1.Communication
You must have Teamspeak or Ventrilo, everyone must use it and have a mike as well. However you must be smart on TS. Do not make useless chatter, listen to the leader, follow directions, speak only when you really need to.
Your team also should have forums for the pvp stuff. You can decide on builds,more on that later, tell everyone how you want your build to spilt, and discuss tactics. Spilts are normally 4/4 and 5/3, as far as tactics have a plan for all the maps so when you get there everyone knows where to go.
2.Builds
You have two options for your builds. You can A copy a build that the top 10 use; or B make your own. As much as people may say "they want to do their own thing" if u want to win u copy the best. If u see all top 10 using a particular build or character theres a reason, It works better then anything else out there. It may take a while to get used to a build and win with it, but give it time.
3. Team make up
If you want to get to the top u need to have a core of pvp ers. A guild can't run 30 different people(with all respect to Xoo,which does alright with there grab 8 and go) it just doesn't allow people to get comfortable. 8-12 is ideal, i would 16 is the max u can use and still have an idea what everyones going to do.

P.S. plz no flames say what i have wrong and what u believe. I am trying to explain how guilds end up low and what they can do better. Excuse spelling mistakes i am rushing to work atm.

Mage Henchnem · Mar 23, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

I know I'm no GvG master, but what your sayng I think is pretty sound. I don't think I would go as far as to say that rank 200+ teams suck, but they aren't in the top 100/25/10 whatever for a reason. I am glad that there is a distinction between the top teams and the rest of us, usually if you notice the top 2-3 guilds rank is waaaay higher then the next runners up, wheras you look at rank 100+ and with a singe win you can jump up or down 30 places on the ladder. I think most people that want to gvg and have a group of players that do also and they can play together regularly, should be able to keep their rank at 500 or better, and with a little trial and error, learning the difference between GvG and HA, and learning the fundamentals of map control and communication, can make a team 100 times better, and don't forget the main reason we all play, to have fun!!!

Luddendorf · Mar 23, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

There is a gigantic difference between the top 3, 5, 10, and 20.

This of course means overall, not based on ladder ranking.

Mage Henchnem · Mar 23, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luddendorf

There is a gigantic difference between the top 3, 5, 10, and 20.

This of course means overall, not based on ladder ranking.

I agree completely, the guild rating is usually an indication of this as well.

For example, right now:
iB is at 1772
EViL is at 1749
RenO is at 1624
Rift is at 1573

The top 4 guilds have a 200 point rating spread, whereas if you look on page 10 or so you might have 10 guilds with the same rating, that was the point I was trying to make, I appologize if it wasn't clear, hopefully this can help out. i think I said ranking when I meant rating before

minor · Mar 24, 2006, 03:27 AM // 03:27

You guys have made good points i agree the number 1 is way better than the number 25, but for the purpose of speaking to a guild thats just starting or very low on the ladder anyone in the top 25 will pwn them easily. As far a the below 200, there may be some alright teams, maybe i should have said 500. Personally from what i've seen any mature team that plays a good build on a regular basis can make top 500 no problem. I have seen some really awful builds and teamwork on teams that still manage to rank in top 500-700. I believe that several of the members of very good gvg guilds have made the claim they could make top 200 with 4 good players and henchmen. It s up for debate that kinda why i posted.

Mage Henchnem · Mar 24, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

/agree

Guinea Fig · Mar 26, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

I wouldn't be surprised about the rank 200 with 4 henchmen builds. Quite difficult of course... but...

There a simply a lot of weak teams out there for you to prey on. Sure it will be hard... and you will lose to any guild that is half decent. However, you just have to win more than you lose to keep climbing (at the higher ranks). You can honestly fight mostly >500 teams all the way to rank 200 or better.

Just saying I can see it being done

.

Red Tenshun · Mar 27, 2006, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Hmm, it's all about teamwork.. feeling the players you play with, a clear communication on TS/VENT as well as small notifications in game.

In the halls u got all the so called "big ranked boys" requiring Rx+ to join their team, but these are all unknown players that just gather to play. And often when those ranked teams face a guild that has a solid build&communication on how to play it, and get killed after all.
Me personally I like a good contact with my fellow guildies & there for I think a small solid guild with a strong solid GvG formation is the best. ( this means around 12-16 people , to put up maybe 2 teams and possible replacement )

Just my 2 cent, a vague discussion though.

Cya.

Red Tenshun.
Fun Lovin Kriminals.

The Hustla · Mar 28, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

nah you don't need ts or vent to get into top 100

My guild which was team tal rasha just a few days ago got to rank in mid 70s in 3 days, no one used ts or vent at least not to communicate, all you gotta do is have players who know what they're actually doing.

and you don't need forums to make a build, most builds that are effectively run by top guilds are pretty simple and you can make one up in like 20 mins if that.

my main point is that you don't need all this other crap like forums to get a build together, TS and Vent is helpful sometimes but it's not always needed unless your actually thinking your gonna get into top 20 or play spike builds.

Warskull · Mar 28, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Minor really has the right idea about things. Absolutely rating only has so much meaning. Really guilds are divided into tiers. Top tier guilds will consistantly give each other good fights. You also have to consider splitting up the regions based on area too. Some regions are easier to climb the ladder than others due to massive schisms in player skill. Some regions have higher play standards than others.

While the numbers aren't perfect and you certainly can't be certain of what tier a guild is in based on their ladder rank it is a good estimation.

Dzan · Mar 28, 2006, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Hustla

nah you don't need ts or vent to get into top 100

My guild which was team tal rasha just a few days ago got to rank in mid 70s in 3 days, no one used ts or vent at least not to communicate, all you gotta do is have players who know what they're actually doing.

and you don't need forums to make a build, most builds that are effectively run by top guilds are pretty simple and you can make one up in like 20 mins if that.

my main point is that you don't need all this other crap like forums to get a build together, TS and Vent is helpful sometimes but it's not always needed unless your actually thinking your gonna get into top 20 or play spike builds.

I couldn't disagree more with pretty much everything you said.

Wasteland Squidget · Mar 28, 2006, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by minor

I believe that several of the members of very good gvg guilds have made the claim they could make top 200 with 4 good players and henchmen. It s up for debate that kinda why i posted.

I'd say that probably used to be true, but isn't as true anymore, mainly because of Observer Mode.

Used to be that you would know a >200 guild by the fact that they were running stupid skills that didn't fit together, and their builds sucked in general. It's by no means about build entirely, but having a strong build that's used by top teams is a big help.

Likewise, all teams can now see the tactics and strategies employed by the top guilds. As a result, general player skill has gone up. The top 500 of today is the top 200 of a couple months ago.

That's not to say everyone in the top 500 is a really skilled player, but typically they're at least an organized team with some conception of build and strategy. Many of them have still got a lot to learn, but the basics are there.

minor · Mar 28, 2006, 12:35 PM // 12:35

I have edited to the top 500 instead of 200, i believe people have made that point.
to Hustla did your guild make it to the top 100 and stay there? Justing getting fairly high up doesn't prove a lot imo. I have seen guilds get a run of teams a little below them and go way up in the ladder, then they face several of teams up there and drop in a hurry. If your team can make top 100 without vent/ts you make top 50-25 with it no problem. You simply cant beat ts with typing.

JR · Mar 28, 2006, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Hustla

nah you don't need ts or vent to get into top 100

My guild which was team tal rasha just a few days ago got to rank in mid 70s in 3 days, no one used ts or vent at least not to communicate, all you gotta do is have players who know what they're actually doing.

and you don't need forums to make a build, most builds that are effectively run by top guilds are pretty simple and you can make one up in like 20 mins if that.

my main point is that you don't need all this other crap like forums to get a build together, TS and Vent is helpful sometimes but it's not always needed unless your actually thinking your gonna get into top 20 or play spike builds.

Play to win.

LightningHell · Mar 28, 2006, 12:56 PM // 12:56

In GvG, people often say it's 95% tactics, 5% builds. I generally agree, except the build part, if you don't build it well, you might just well have a...-95% penalty.

Wasteland Squidget · Mar 28, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHustla

nah you don't need ts or vent to get into top 100

My guild which was team tal rasha just a few days ago got to rank in mid 70s in 3 days, no one used ts or vent at least not to communicate, all you gotta do is have players who know what they're actually doing.

and you don't need forums to make a build, most builds that are effectively run by top guilds are pretty simple and you can make one up in like 20 mins if that.

my main point is that you don't need all this other crap like forums to get a build together, TS and Vent is helpful sometimes but it's not always needed unless your actually thinking your gonna get into top 20 or play spike builds.

JR already covered this pretty well, but lack of ability to call tactics over vent is a serious disadvantage in GvG. The 15 seconds your match-caller spends typing out his split plan is enough time for the opposition to have their way with your NPCs, or the flagstand, or your guild lord.

Furthermore, you can't call a lot of in-battle tactics. Applying pressure to specific characters, calling adrenal spikes, calling for removals effectively - it's all stuff that you can't easily do without voicechat.

Basically, if you're running without voicechat in high-level play you're a serious disadvantage, and a good team will quickly recognize your lack of coordination and capitalize on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

In GvG, people often say it's 95% tactics, 5% builds. I generally agree, except the build part, if you don't build it well, you might just well have a...-95% penalty.

Speak better good today.

dansamy · Mar 28, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

JR- is dead on here. You can take 8 pre-made paladins (including players that normally never play warrior) and rock the socks off a lot of guilds by simply playing aggressively and out to win.

JR · Mar 28, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy

JR- is dead on here. You can take 8 pre-made paladins (including players that normally never play warrior) and rock the socks off a lot of guilds by simply playing aggressively and out to win.

That was a fairly decent example I suppose. Beating a top 100(?) guild that was made up of fairly experienced players with pallyway. How? Good communication; something we wouldn't have had a hope in hell of doing without, if we weren't on vent.

LightningHell · Mar 29, 2006, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Speak better good today.

...Can you clarify please?

JR · Mar 29, 2006, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

...Can you clarify please?

Exactly his point.