Curse

Gli · Mar 30, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Why am I not worried about this?

Because, if this is the way Factions will work, most people won't buy Chapter 3. And Guild Wars dies.

Anet's not this stupid... are they?

Yet, everything they've shown so far supports the idea that this is exactly how it will work.

The way the numbers worked in the preview already showed us that my guild can't even contribute enough faction standing per day to compensate for a single day's worth of degeneration for the standing of an alliance no bigger than a single big guild. Small guilds aren't even a speck on the radar, they might as well not exist.

Since the preview, we've gone from 1 out of 5 definitely not buying and 4/5 definitely buying, to 1/5 definitely not buying and 4/5 not buying until the alliance control issue is cleared up and turns out to work in a satisfactory way.

Mordakai · Mar 30, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Yet, everything they've shown so far supports the idea that this is exactly how it will work.

The way the numbers worked in the preview already showed us that my guild can't even contribute enough faction standing per day to compensate for a single day's worth of degeneration for the standing of an alliance no bigger than a single big guild. Small guilds aren't even a speck on the radar, they might as well not exist.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just saying Anet will probably end up changing it.

At least before Chapter 3...

CyberNigma · Mar 30, 2006, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Why am I not worried about this?

Because, if this is the way Factions will work, most people won't buy Chapter 3. And Guild Wars dies.

Anet's not this stupid... are they?

See previous essage referring to Diablo franchise and the devs at ANet (former Diablo peeps)... I think they would've learned from that experience, though.. I don't think we know everything about what's going to happen and therefore will just have to see. If it is the case, I wouldn't recommend following any suggestions about seeing how Chapter 3 will be. You can't change your mind once you've paid.

Mordakai · Mar 30, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

See previous essage referring to Diablo franchise and the devs at ANet (former Diablo peeps)... I think they would've learned from that experience, though.. I don't think we know everything about what's going to happen and therefore will just have to see. If it is the case, I wouldn't recommend following any suggestions about seeing how Chapter 3 will be. You can't change your mind once you've paid.

Hey, another player from SA! Sweet!

Exactly. I'll give Anet the benefit of the doubt with Chapter 2, but if they screw up big time...

Loviatar · Mar 30, 2006, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Hey, another player from SA! Sweet!

Exactly. I'll give Anet the benefit of the doubt with Chapter 2, but if they screw up big time...

i will give them a try at chapter 3 as well.

DONT FORGET

chapter 3 is being worked on by a whole separate team.

while therewill be much cross chapter brainstorming for compatability chapter 3 will probably be as different from both chapters 1/2 as 2 is from chapter 1.

if one development team lets you down there is 6 months for the next chapter team to smoothly work in a fix in their chapter as a backstop.

there is hope yet folks

Mordakai · Mar 30, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

there is hope yet folks

Oh, I haven't given up hope yet. I'm very curious to see how this whole Alliance control thing pans out, and if it sucks, hey, at least I have my Ritualist.

LadyTheif · Mar 30, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

There are alot of small etile guilds and friend guilds out there.

I know there is alot of "new" guild starting, maybe there will be "new" alllainces looking for guilds to join them.

I don't know how many guild leaders will really want to be the leader of an allaince.

I have a PvE friend guild of 30. I'm the only one the PvP all the time.
By Chapter 3 I hope things look better.

I think in the end we will be ok, we just need to know for the guild leaders to find other good leaders and team up.

I don't need you really need max. Some of the could be inactive or not the best players.

Small guild I think will find each other. 10 etile small guild together close nit friends/players could do just has well.

Gli · Mar 31, 2006, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Ten small guilds, elite or not, don't stand a chance against big alliances of hundreds of people grinding faction.

Also, a guild of 30 is absolutely whopping HUGE compared to what I consider to be a small guild.

Rask Finn · Mar 31, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Personally, I have no problems with the hardcore players/guilds getting rewards for their work.

It gives me a goal to shoot for.

I'd rather have rewards I can't get *yet* than have no incentive to keep playing and getting better.

Gli · Mar 31, 2006, 01:35 AM // 01:35

But it has nothing to do with being 'hardcore' or not, or even 'working' harder than other players. The determining factor seems to be the way you deal with the social aspect of the game. Personal 'hardcoreness' or the amount of 'work' you put in loses all meaning in the face of alliances of hundreds.

Want to play in a small clique of RL friends who you can unwind with and talk about what movie you're going to see next weekend over the guild channel while you're doing your gazillionth totally hardcore FoW clearing? Bad luck, you can't compete in factions. Keep playing all you want, and get better all you want, the rewards will never be yours, because you'll never put as much faction together as the big alliances. Ever.

Kakumei · Mar 31, 2006, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

But it has nothing to do with being 'hardcore' or not, or even 'working' harder than other players. The determining factor seems to be the way you deal with the social aspect of the game. Personal 'hardcoreness' or the amount of 'work' you put in loses all meaning in the face of alliances of hundreds.

Want to play in a small clique of RL friends who you can unwind with and talk about what movie you're going to see next weekend over the guild channel while you're doing your gazillionth totally hardcore FoW clearing? Bad luck, you can't compete in factions. Keep playing all you want, and get better all you want, the rewards will never be yours, because you'll never put as much faction together as the big alliances. Ever.

Truth. And if this is truly the system as it will work in release, I'm going to be very much angry.

Even in the interview, though, he still didn't say -exactly- how it's going to work. I'd like to hear someone from Anet say "okay it's going to work exactly like this and only a few thousand people are ever going to see these awesome elite areas, sucks to be the rest of you" or not.

Theos · Mar 31, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

I am quite sure that Anet, and pretty much any explanation you could get during FPE, about the control was that the controlling of towns will only make things CHEAPER for the controlling guild. No where has it said, or even hinted, that only the controlling guild will get in.

Oh beyond that I can quite remember Gaile saying there would be UW/FoW like areas, probably refering to the elite missions as that is what UW and FoW were. Last I checked FoW and UW did not covet only to 1% of the game audience.

As for Diable, from what I know of the recent Blizzard fiasco, most of the people who left and made GW were those who built up Diablo, not those who messed the game up like mad.

mqstout · Mar 31, 2006, 03:07 AM // 03:07

And let us not forget: wasn't another of Guild Wars' primary ideas that you could compete to good levels of fun in the game WITHOUT the need to grind/commit your life? Sigh.

Weezer_Blue · Mar 31, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Alliance Standing decays. To my understanding, it decays faster the more of it you have, and even faster if you are in control of a town. While this means that other Alliances will have the chance to take control, it doesn't prevent the mastery of larger guilds over smaller guilds. For town control, large Alliances will never be beaten by small ones, even if the small one happens to be made up of 10 members from Fi, nO, KOR, WAR, and EvIL.

Rask Finn · Mar 31, 2006, 03:37 AM // 03:37

I'm sorry, I still see it as the super elite missions are rewards for the top guilds, be it by sheer number or skill.

I'm not going to complain because I can't also use that reward, as its an extra in the game for those who accomplish a certain act.

An imperfect analogy would be complaining about the gold-trim on the capes. Its an extra that doesn't imbalance the game I'm going to play, but is a nice reward for the top guild. I don't pvp much, so I don't ever expect to get that. I don't think it should be removed, however.

Though I can understand that a lot of people want access to every bit of game in there by playing the way they've always played, I'm just not overly worried about it. I'm willing to wait and see exactly how my alliance stands before determining its a crap system and we'll never ever be able to compete.

Kakumei · Mar 31, 2006, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rask Finn

An imperfect analogy would be complaining about the gold-trim on the capes. Its an extra that doesn't imbalance the game I'm going to play, but is a nice reward for the top guild. I don't pvp much, so I don't ever expect to get that. I don't think it should be removed, however.

That's a horrible analogy. Gold trim on capes is NOTHING like 'elite areas harder than anything we've seen before, designed to be the most challenging PvE experience possible'.

EternalTempest · Mar 31, 2006, 04:59 AM // 04:59

I think that if Anet finds that it's too stale (just like FOTM.. that go on to long) they will shake it up.

Think of all the changes they did in C1 that really changed things and the way the game is played. I do share these concerns to (from small friendly guild) but as long as the majority of the content is avaible to me and I get good drops for unlocks, then I will be happy.

If elite skills or certain armor / collector items were locked away in the elite area's I may be a bit ticked but have not idea (and don't think it will be) factions is not out yet.

It may be these super elite area's are extremly hard / challenging that say a normal pug that feels left out but not a "good" group of players would have zero chance of winning where an allaince that can control can handle the AI level it offers.

zoozoc · Mar 31, 2006, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

We can hope for a system like this, I for one wouldn't mind this. But think about it this way. Your alliance gains control of a city. Each time you turn in faction points you spend 5k for 10 faction status. Lets say you do this 10 times to help your alliance gain control of the city. You gain the ability to have parades and a free entrance to the elite missions. You spent hours doing this and spent 50k faction points.
Now, here I come, I've done nothing to help your alliance but can walk into the city and enter the elite mission for say 5k and at worse, 10k faction points.
Why would the normal player take so much time farming points to gain entrance when it is faster and cheaper for him to wait on someone else? I have a feeling Anet would catch this, and in doing so, one of the already said situations takes place. Like Mordakai says, Anet's not stupid.

My opinion of course and just sharing my thoughts. Other points of view always invited.

Well the discounted merchant prices might mean that rare crafting materials are a lot cheaper then normal, of course you could always join one of these guilds and not contribute at all or contribute very little and still reap benefits, but i always assumed the whole point of "buying" a city was bragging rights, i mean thats the whole point of PvE in most other games, i have the l33test armor etc., i mean before the GWWC that was the whole point of being good at GvG, there was no benefit except having fun (which you can do getting faction to buy a city). And most ppl who win HoH dont do it so they can get into FoW/UW but everyone from that territory gets to enter for a measly sum of 1k, but no one is complaining about that being unfair to the ppl who win HoH. The only difference between the current territory system and the "owning" of the towns is that those woh PvE can actually participate more easily in securing these elite missions.

Also they could always make it so the fee everyone else pays goes directly to the alliance that owns the city, pretty much insuring they either get tons of gold or tons of faction that they can use to keep this town and buy others, but its obviously a better choice then only a select few entering the elite mission.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

That would make sense, yes, but it's not a matter of who puts more time into the game.

How is it not? Those who make multiply characters do every quest to get as much faction for their alliance and who really want to "own" a town dont have any kind of advantage over those who play once a week?

Ken Dei · Mar 31, 2006, 06:54 AM // 06:54

They could put this whole bloody mess to bed by saying the following:

A.) This is how the system was intended to work, but we're changing it in light of your responses, we can't promise it'll be changed before release, but it will be changed.

or

B.) The system does not work like this, it in facts works in "such and such" a manner, we hope this clarifies.

While I'd be angry if things worked this way, I'm even more dissappointed with the sudden silence from A.Net on just about all aspects of gameplay. Communication was A.Net's shining attribute when they came out, and while I have not lost the faith yet, I am getting worried by the secrecy.

Loviatar · Mar 31, 2006, 06:55 AM // 06:55

i think it is a wonderful setup.

people from faction *A* are looking at the towns that faction *B* is holding and moaning desparately how miserable it is that they are denied those elite quests.

MEANWHILE...........DRUMROLL PLEASE................

people from faction *B* are looking at the towns that faction *A*is holding and moaning desparately how miserable it is that they are denied those elite quests.

each is ignoring the fact that they have a full untouched plate in front of then and are looking across the table

good nite all