Curse

Thomadaneau · Mar 30, 2006, 01:08 PM // 13:08

I thought something... we all know that we will be able to control for extra mission. But, wont it be always the same guilds with the same town.. because it's like fame, some people will farm those a lot. they will control the city next to the capital surely for a long time...

what do you think ? wont the top guilds always controling the cities ?

WasAGuest · Mar 30, 2006, 02:14 PM // 14:14

From my understanding; and this is from various others in these forums, from the Jeff Strain interview on gamingsteve.com, and from what Gaile Grey said in GW the other day.

The largest most powerful alliances will have control of the cities and be easily able to hold them. There may be a few pushes back and forth from rival alliances, but for the most part, the same ones will constantly have it.

It's simply to easy for them not to have it and keep it. If you have a maxed alliance (2000 players), that makes for a lot of people able to constantly be online putting faction points into the alliance pool.

There is already talk on these boards of controlling alliances farming the elite drops and exploiting them for massive amounts of money to other players since there is little or no other way to get those drops.

Another possible exploit being talked about is that if controlling alliance members can bring in non-alliance members into those missions, they will charge a fee - similar to being run somewhere.

Anet simply needs to give open access to all missions that are under same faction control to stop this nonsence before it starts. (unless they already have, but the only thing I've read or heard about is what I've stated above).

hobbitshd · Mar 30, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

that is an interesting point, the exploitation of these 'elite' areas.
i am sure that there will be some moderation..lets hope

bilbo

Gli · Mar 30, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

It may not always be the exact same ones but it sure looks like it's going to be a select group.

If I hadn't already decided to skip on Factions, this whole setup would have been another reason. Small guilds (like mine, made up of just 5 RL friends), will have no place in this scheme. With a limited number of guilds per alliances, no strong, contending alliance will have room for small guilds. And then there's of course the little complication that I wouldn't even want to be part of a big alliance.

To me, GW is a game played in small groups. Superficial concepts that add meaning to the idea of bigger groups only add a burden of metagaming, and metagaming is one thing I'll never want to spend more time on than the bare minimum. GW metagaming so far has been mostly restricted to PvP and that was fine with me. Factions, apparently, will be dragging it screaming into the PvE environment. No thanks.

Mordakai · Mar 30, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

There is already talk on these boards of controlling alliances farming the elite drops and exploiting them for massive amounts of money to other players since there is little or no other way to get those drops.

Was it verified that the only way to get certain drops was from Elite missions? I thought they were just more likely to get rare drops (still could be problematic market wise, but at least not a monopoly).

If this turns out to be true, I have a feeling Anet would change course. I, for one, will NOT buy Chapter 3 if I feel significantly left out of content in Chapter 2.

Now, I'm not a hardcore gamer. I tried UW once, and was not impressed. So, not having access to a few Elite quests won't bother me. But if there's no chance of getting an item w/o going on that quest... well, that would bother me. (Unless the item is just a different skin...)

There are just to many unknowns right now!

Loviatar · Mar 30, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Was it verified that the only way to get certain drops was from Elite missions?

yup.

there are a few super hardcore elite (their words) quests which will give uber rare drops (not stat wise but still a prestige item)

the area will be as hard as the UW on steroids and as quoted the drops will be in scale with the difficulity.

i have no objection to that as anybody who gets one of thase earned it just like someone in black FOW armor with perfect everything who honestly worked for every bit of it does not bother me at all

the game itself does not depend on getting to any of those few areas.

i have never been to the UW and i dont feel left out as i am having fun elsewhere

Mordakai · Mar 30, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

there are a few super hardcore elite (their words) quests which will give uber rare drops (not stat wise but still a prestige item)

i have no objection to that as anybody who gets one of thase earned it just like someone in black FOW armor with perfect everything who honestly worked for every bit of it does not bother me at all

As long as the items are no different stat wise, I have no problem with unique skins for people who play GW 24/7.

They deserve some reward for their fanatacism... (not that there's anything wrong with that, I would play more if I could!)

Loviatar · Mar 30, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

As long as the items are no different stat wise, I have no problem with unique skins for people who play GW 24/7.

They deserve some reward for their fanatacism... (not that there's anything wrong with that, I would play more if I could!)

they couldnt be unbalanced statwise without tossing the core game so we are safe.

imagine an item costing 2x the price of fissure

10x your weight in jade

a gold magnet?

a lure that an ebay seller cant turn down which is traced the whole way up the chain perhaps with networkd of ebay acounts closed i hope?

Kakumei · Mar 30, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

. If you have a maxed alliance (2000 players)

100 players per guild, 10 guilds per alliance. Isn't it? Or am I mistaken somewhere?

Anyway. I just wish Anet would give a hard and fast answer to the whole elite area matter. Are they open to only the controlling alliance--that is, a thousand players out of the entire playerbase? If that's the case, then that's just...ugh.

SirShadowrunner · Mar 30, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

From my understanding; and this is from various others in these forums, from the Jeff Strain interview on gamingsteve.com, and from what Gaile Grey said in GW the other day.

The largest most powerful alliances will have control of the cities and be easily able to hold them. There may be a few pushes back and forth from rival alliances, but for the most part, the same ones will constantly have it.

It's simply to easy for them not to have it and keep it. If you have a maxed alliance (2000 players), that makes for a lot of people able to constantly be online putting faction points into the alliance pool.

There is already talk on these boards of controlling alliances farming the elite drops and exploiting them for massive amounts of money to other players since there is little or no other way to get those drops.

Another possible exploit being talked about is that if controlling alliance members can bring in non-alliance members into those missions, they will charge a fee - similar to being run somewhere.

Anet simply needs to give open access to all missions that are under same faction control to stop this nonsence before it starts. (unless they already have, but the only thing I've read or heard about is what I've stated above).

This is one of my biggest concerns, I really enjoy FOW and UW, the
challenges there are great, but you have to have favor, which you have a
1 in 5 chance to have.

Now if alliances are limited to 2000 ppl and GW has over 1million players,
I read this as now having a 1 in 500 chance of getting access to the high
level areas of the game, I do hope I am wrong, or this will be a game killer.
If there are maybe 10 different high level areas to control, then it would
be 1 in 50 chance.
Besides I think the idea of alliances getting rich off of controlling areas of
the game is wrong, this will be pure explotiation.

I really love playing GW and I am sure factions will be a kick in the pants,
so I am going to stop worrying and just sit back and start the count-down.

laterzzzzz.....

CyberNigma · Mar 30, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Four things to remember

One: The factions themselves play in this somehow. I imagine an alliance that has it's Faction lose control of a town will also lose control of a town. Of course this means the uber-alliance from the other faction will probably buy it up..

Two: This is supposed to be a casual game. Statwise weapons are more important in the PvP aspect. Looks and economy are more important to a lot of people in the PvE portion.

Three: ANet hasn't confirmed the details yet, just the broad aspects of it.

Four: These ARE the people that screwed up the Diablo franchise with similar ideas (though with stats instead of just skins), so anything is possible.

Give it time to sink in, let the game get closer, and I'm sure we'll get more information. At least we'll know by the time Chapter 3 comes out..

EDIT: To give credit (I'm sorry, I shouldn't have left this out) where credit is due, these are also the guys that originally built the Diablo franchise. Again, I apologize for leaving that out..

dreamhunk · Mar 30, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomadaneau

I thought something... we all know that we will be able to control for extra mission. But, wont it be always the same guilds with the same town.. because it's like fame, some people will farm those a lot. they will control the city next to the capital surely for a long time...

what do you think ? wont the top guilds always controling the cities ?

Now your thinking LOL, better yet exploit like crazy and abuse LOL. Trust me pve players will have noe of it LOL.

WasAGuest · Mar 30, 2006, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

100 players per guild, 10 guilds per alliance. Isn't it? Or am I mistaken somewhere?

Anyway. I just wish Anet would give a hard and fast answer to the whole elite area matter. Are they open to only the controlling alliance--that is, a thousand players out of the entire playerbase? If that's the case, then that's just...ugh.

I thought it was 2000 max per alliance... If not, my bad. Could have sworn I read 2000 somewhere though.

I feel they have given the answer on it. PvP (12vs12) moves the faction lines once per day. Each time the borders are moved, the cities are "awarded" by the alliances with the most faction standing. Access to the cities is allowed by all, but the merchants sell only to "friendly" players and missions are only accessable by controlling alliance members. - Again this information is pulled from various posts in these boards and from interviews.

Since Jeff Strain also seemed to like the idea of running and runners (he compliments the players doing it in his interview as creative) I can see him supporting controlling alliance members exploiting their control of the mission in the ways mentioned above. It's similar to running - pay a fee to a controlling alliance member to get you into the mission.

I'm also in the same boat with my guild. All friends and they are all casual players (though I am able to put in 8 hours a day if I so pleased). We can't compete with the 2000 or 1000 players and as was said, no one would want a smaller friend based guild that wont touch anything PvPish. So in an alliance we would be stuck to faction farming... /shudders at the boredom

I dunno, seems like a very one sided situation to me, though I agree we'll need to wait and see what comes up. I've said this before and gt flamed for it, but I'm taking a wait to purchase stand with the game. As of now, I'm not buying it. If it turns out not playing out like this and several other off topic changes take place, then I'll go pick it up so I can play the Ritualist I so want to play. - Why that get's flamed, I don't know... but it often does. /shrug

zoozoc · Mar 30, 2006, 06:24 PM // 18:24

i was always under the impression that everyone from the particular alliance that help the town would get lowered merchant rates and would be able to enter the elite missions for free, while ppl from the same faction, but different alliance would have to pay some sort of fee to enter the elite mission (like kurzick/luzon faction or gold much like in UW/FoW now). But i could be wrong, but it does make sense for it to work this way, rewarding players who put a lot of time into the game while still allowing mostly everyone access. (except for ppl of the opposite faction)

Gli · Mar 30, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoozoc

But i could be wrong, but it does make sense for it to work this way, rewarding players who put a lot of time into the game

That would make sense, yes, but it's not a matter of who puts more time into the game.

Kakumei · Mar 30, 2006, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

I thought it was 2000 max per alliance... If not, my bad. Could have sworn I read 200 somewhere though.

I feel they have given the answer on it. PvP (12vs12) moves the faction lines once per day. Each time the borders are moved, the cities are "awarded" by the alliances with the most faction standing. Access to the cities is allowed by all, but the merchants sell only to "friendly" players and missions are only accessable by controlling alliance members. - Again this information is pulled from various posts in these boards and from interviews.

Since Jeff Strain also seemed to like the idea of running and runners (he compliments the players doing it in his interview as creative) I can see him supporting controlling alliance members exploiting their control of the mission in the ways mentioned above. It's similar to running - pay a fee to a controlling alliance member to get you into the mission.

I'm also in the same boat with my guild. All friends and they are all casual players (though I am able to put in 8 hours a day if I so pleased). We can't compete with the 2000 or 1000 players and as was said, no one would want a smaller friend based guild that wont touch anything PvPish. So in an alliance we would be stuck to faction farming... /shudders at the boredom

I dunno, seems like a very one sided situation to me, though I agree we'll need to wait and see what comes up. I've said this before and gt flamed for it, but I'm taking a wait to purchase stand with the game. As of now, I'm not buying it. If it turns out not playing out like this and several other off topic changes take place, then I'll go pick it up so I can play the Ritualist I so want to play. - Why that get's flamed, I don't know... but it often does. /shrug

In the FPE, those lines were redrawn every three hours. Not sure whether it will be the same, of course.

My guild is rather...xenophobic, at best. Not that anyone would want to ally with a tiny guild like us anyway, but still. As it stands, we would likely never get to be one of the 'controlling' alliances, and thus I'll never get to experience those elite areas.

Horrible system. A thousand people at a time at most can access any given elite area? No. Please don't let it work out that way. That's like the favor system gone even more wrong than it already is.

Zehnchu · Mar 30, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

In the FPE, those lines were redrawn every three hours. Not sure whether it will be the same, of course.

My guild is rather...xenophobic, at best. Not that anyone would want to ally with a tiny guild like us anyway, but still. As it stands, we would likely never get to be one of the 'controlling' alliances, and thus I'll never get to experience those elite areas.

Horrible system. A thousand people at a time at most can access any given elite area? No. Please don't let it work out that way. That's like the favor system gone even more wrong than it already is.

Think they said the lines will be redrawn at midnight.

I have to agree with you there, or at least have where it will cost you some faction points to go on these elite areas.

Mordakai · Mar 30, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Why am I not worried about this?

Because, if this is the way Factions will work, most people won't buy Chapter 3. And Guild Wars dies.

Anet's not this stupid... are they?

Loviatar · Mar 30, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Why am I not worried about this?

Because, if this is the way Factions will work, most people won't buy Chapter 3. And Guild Wars dies.

Anet's not this stupid... are they?

it is really a conspiracy to get people to use the new *pattycake* emote

this way they have something to do for days until their side takes a town.

or maybe they could go to a city with the same thing that their side has access t

WasAGuest · Mar 30, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

In the FPE, those lines were redrawn every three hours. Not sure whether it will be the same, of course.

My guild is rather...xenophobic, at best. Not that anyone would want to ally with a tiny guild like us anyway, but still. As it stands, we would likely never get to be one of the 'controlling' alliances, and thus I'll never get to experience those elite areas.

Horrible system. A thousand people at a time at most can access any given elite area? No. Please don't let it work out that way. That's like the favor system gone even more wrong than it already is.

In the Jeff Strain invterview at gamingsteve.com, Jeff claims they are drawn every 24 hours. For the FPE it was accelerated to show how they moved. Though, unless the alliance faction status is reset at zero each time they are awarded a city, the time of border moving doesn't make too much a difference. Like you say, casual gamers need not apply here nor do smaller guilds. There's really not much point to it. More on that in a minute.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoozoc

i was always under the impression that everyone from the particular alliance that help the town would get lowered merchant rates and would be able to enter the elite missions for free, while ppl from the same faction, but different alliance would have to pay some sort of fee to enter the elite mission (like kurzick/luzon faction or gold much like in UW/FoW now). But i could be wrong, but it does make sense for it to work this way, rewarding players who put a lot of time into the game while still allowing mostly everyone access. (except for ppl of the opposite faction)

We can hope for a system like this, I for one wouldn't mind this. But think about it this way. Your alliance gains control of a city. Each time you turn in faction points you spend 5k for 10 faction status. Lets say you do this 10 times to help your alliance gain control of the city. You gain the ability to have parades and a free entrance to the elite missions. You spent hours doing this and spent 50k faction points.
Now, here I come, I've done nothing to help your alliance but can walk into the city and enter the elite mission for say 5k and at worse, 10k faction points.
Why would the normal player take so much time farming points to gain entrance when it is faster and cheaper for him to wait on someone else? I have a feeling Anet would catch this, and in doing so, one of the already said situations takes place. Like Mordakai says, Anet's not stupid.

I'm also not so much as worried about it as I am miffed about the idea (if it works this way). We all pay the same amount for the game as everyone else does, why then, in some silly design would the devs put in place a system that litterally keeps everyone from playing the game to it's fullest? That's just goofy to me.

Yea, we can join huge alliances, farm like crazy to grab the cities - that's not my way of playing. When I hear those suggestions, I have this echo in the back of my head of Sony saying "Welcome to our world" - in reference to EQ.

My opinion of course and just sharing my thoughts. Other points of view always invited.

Edit: Loviatar - you just caused me to launch soda out of my nose... thanks to the above post. lol