Curse

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 07, 2005, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Consider also that 4 out of 6 classes are affected by those hard hitting hexes. However, Cripple counters any warrior and any speed reduction hex. Ward Against Melee, Guardian, Aegis, every warrior stance, etc... seems like every class has some method to over come warriors (physical attacks in general). You don't need a high AL when you can simply avoid all of those attacks. But, try to find a way to counter an elementalist's spells and your options are slim.

You can counter an elementalist spells with basic healing and prot, and doing so you won't run out of energy. They'll probably just be unleashing a fairly low DPS over time, or a high-damage spike once every 10 to 15 seconds.

But leave a warrior uncountered and watch your Monks run out of energy in a hurry as they try to heal Deep Wounds and consistent extremely high DPS and spikes, especially if the enemy team is running multiple warriors.

Warriors are easily countered because, uncountered, they are the highest consistent DPS in the game.

As far as Daze, like any condition it's ridiculously easy for a good team to remove, which is why it doesn't get much use. The effect is a strong one, but since just about everybody runs Martyr or Restore it isn't likely to last long.

DeanBB · Dec 07, 2005, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Concussion shot can be obtained...

• Post-Sear Quest (The Royal Papers, 750xp) from Watchman Arad in Fishermen's Haven
• Purchase from Skills Trader Bartoch in Droknar's Forge

I'm a PvE'er and have seen it used by monsters a fair amount in the desert areas and later. As an elem I reeeaaalllly hate it!

Vermilion Okeanos · Dec 07, 2005, 10:24 PM // 22:24

physical damage are easily buffed to deal crazy damage, while it is also easily debuffed to do lousy damage. (so many ways to buff; so many ways to debuff, dont want to list them all)

magical damage is hard to buff up with anything, while it is also a bit harder to be debuff.(at most is max attribute and glyph of elemental power/awakening the blood/mantra of persistance and weapon)

But if in terms of my opinion, I say that magical damage are much more off the balance; magical damage are harder to buff than it is to be debuff (interuption, majorirty of mesemer skills, prot bond/spirit, obsidian flesh/spell breaker, knockdown, concussion).

Yukito Kunisaki · Dec 07, 2005, 11:14 PM // 23:14

As far as ranking goes, I'd tie Dazed with Deep Wound with only one catch...

Deep Wound is about 234% easier to land on someone than Dazed is. By bringing a skill that causes dazed, you're losing a chunk of damage output. As a warrior, you're losing a LARGE chunk of damage output... I think the Savage Shot/Slash and other interrupts would probably be better with Disrupting Chop/Distracting Shot the kings of anti-magic non-caster skills...

Dazed can be easily removed if the enemy is using Plague Touch [that's why necros are sexy]

I'd definitely be glad to have a Mo/N on my team who got dazed and then P. Touches it onto an enemy monk/caster. That'd be funny... [Plague touch isn't affected by Dazed... hah hah

]

But Deep Wound kills enemies 20% faster on all levels. They only get healed for 20% less and since their max hp is 20% less, your damage ratio jumps by 20%, meaning you pretty much kill them 20% faster...

I love deep wound. I miss my axe, but the sword definitely seems fun. That and having people bleeding, run away when there's no condition removal nearby, and then die is fun! It's just that Gash's conditional approach has many people looking down on the sword, but hey, at least I can use Victory is Mine! {E} again and at maximum efficiency to boot!

No need to argue for Eviscerate{E} in this case!

Eet GnomeSmasher · Dec 08, 2005, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Dazed is too much of an "all or nothing" condition. A really powerful condition but hard to apply. And also very hard to get rid of and very easy to get rid of at the same time.

I'd prefer that they tone down dazed a bit and add more skills that use the condition....otherwise it will remain something that people hardly ever use.

Praetor · Dec 08, 2005, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Dazed is annoying in 4v4. Dazed is pointless in 8v8 (organized 8v8, have you). If you're a necro, Y halo thar! Plague Touch!
8v8, usually you'll have a teammate who's got it covered.

Sir Aurik · Dec 08, 2005, 06:05 AM // 06:05

I concussioned shotted a reversal of fortune one time

( i know my grammar is wrong^^)

Peewee · Dec 08, 2005, 02:02 PM // 14:02

i loved concussion shot once. but soon the 25 nrg started to be really hurt. basically if u get it right u can remove a ele form the game for about 15 secs, and if ur really goodu can take down the monks as well. ur right, is is underused, but i wouldnt say it was underpowered. spell casters have enought to interupt them as it is, withou a condition as well, for this reason dazed is a far more powerful condition than blind.

bobrath · Dec 08, 2005, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Personally, I carry Concussion shot in PvP as a opportunistic skill. I've gone entire nights and used it maybe once, but other nights, I couldn't get enough.

Most fun I had was when I was lucky enough to get a mesmer on my team who brought along Arcane Conundrum. Suddenly there wasn't a spell out there I couldn't drop dazed on or distract. Together, he and I could disable the enemy caster corps. Nothing funnier then a whole group of casters running around with the glowing white ball on their heads!

The high energy cost of conc shot is a great balance to its power and is part of the fun (for me) of choosing to use it or not.

glenn_rolfe · Dec 08, 2005, 09:06 PM // 21:06

In GvG or tombs daze just comes off too fast, unless you've shut down both healers and you've dazed the prot monk. The only time I've really done anything good with it was against a SoJ ball, where I dazed one and then one of our mez's landed on epidemic which screwed up the ball completely.
It's more of a 2-4 sec disabling skill because that's about as long as it would stay on there.

I actually think it needs to be buffed a little. When dazed maybe you lose all control of your character for the dazed period and sort of walk around in random directions - that'd be cool.

galkraft · Dec 08, 2005, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Hmm, does Nature's Renewal and Migraine/Arcane Conundrum stack? Prot monks wouldn't stand a chance.

Rey Lentless · Dec 08, 2005, 11:21 PM // 23:21

The most they can be increased is 1.5X. So if you have a 1 sec cast, you can turn it into a 2.5 cast. So even if you have someone dazed with migraine, conunudrum and NR up.. the cast time would still only be 2.5X the original cast time.

Mystical · Dec 09, 2005, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

As far as Daze, like any condition it's ridiculously easy for a good team to remove, which is why it doesn't get much use. The effect is a strong one, but since just about everybody runs Martyr or Restore it isn't likely to last long.

Haha. That would be something, you dazed someone and the prot monk uses Martyr. Whoops.

Manfred · Dec 09, 2005, 03:14 AM // 03:14

The reason to use r/me with migraine and conc. shot would be to migraine FIRST, then daze when they tried to use a skill later.

btw: an awexome monk I know has a build with draw coniditions and plague signet. It is hillarious.

Glasswalker · Dec 09, 2005, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Plague Touch should still take 2 1/4 seconds... I'm not aware of Dazed not affecting any skill with a duration. Similarly Plague Signet takes 3 seconds to cast.

Your target should always be the Monk first -- preferably the Protector. Condition Removal is rampant these days, but if you aim for the guy that's using it, they are screwed for ~17 seconds.

The combo I use is Concussion Shot + Ignite Arrows. From there it's the standard Quick Shot build (minus Savage Shot + Barbs). Every time I hit I'm interupting (even just wand attacks) nevermind the damage I'm doing. The rest of the team can be pounding on another monk, and if you've ever gone without protection for 17 seconds in Tombs then you know this is significant.

I don't know where the difficulty comes in either. Yes, you have to sometimes wait a bit for the right spell to come up, but it takes the same 1/2 second as Savage Shot and hits just as easily -- only with far more effect. Granted, it costs more Energy but that only means that you need to use it strategically. Have a high Expertise, or Soul Reaping -- That's all I have to say.

Boofhead · Dec 09, 2005, 06:33 PM // 18:33

I don't think skills that aren't spells (like plague touch) and signets are affected by Dazed.

Del12 · Dec 09, 2005, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

Concussion Shot with high Expertise and high Marksmanship.....you do not want to mess with a Ranger who knows how to use it.

Ya dazed is sooo easy to apply with an interrupt ranger. This ownz in the random arenas. The reason its not used in tombs (or used successfully) is because conditions are removed too easily. Martyr, restore condtions, mend ailment, mend condition, plague touch, on and on and on. All quick casts/recharges hence it never stays on your target.

Sephir Demange · Dec 09, 2005, 07:41 PM // 19:41

I like the idea of concussion shot+ epidemic. If they have restore, they have alot of spamming to do to fix it. And if they have martyr, the Martyr carry is now dazed, repeat epidemic, sounds like fun.

SaintGreg · Dec 10, 2005, 07:13 AM // 07:13

I agree, the only way you could truly get anything out of dazed is by spreading it. But epidemic will hit hardly anyone, being only adjacent. Which would only help against ball teams - how many teams do you see built for balling? And the martyr man will get off mend ailment in time to remove his own dazed, even if you have two good mesmers using epidemic.

I think the more appropriate way would be to use fevered dreams, since the aoe goes from adjacent, to in the area (ward range I think), meaning it will usually hit 4+ targets at least, and pretty much everyone in an altar battle. The problem lies in getting the fevered guy dazed after they realize what you are doing. Although either way, if they do realize what you are doing, you could think about having 2 mesmers spamming fevered dreams. One on the martyr guy (if they have one), so that when he martyr's it spreads the dazed back on everyone - lol at that, and one on a good target for becoming dazed. With so many people suffering from dazed, they couldn't hope to mend ailment/restore conditions all of them.

Plus, since fevered dreams will transfer any condition to basically everyone, you can run a mainly condition heavy build with it and probably do pretty decently - -10 degen on everyone does not take long to hurt alot, especially since they can't get off heal party or divine healing being dazed. Either have the mesmers use cover hexes, or have necros for that, with necro conditions thrown in. Maybe a trapper or two, with ViM monks. You could even have the fevered guys be the conc rangers if you had a good energy plan (ie bip or rlood rit) Goes to to create a dazed/FD build...

Sephir Demange · Dec 10, 2005, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Some of these ideas are just great. Maybe because of this thread we'll see some more innovative things in PvP now. I'm so tired of seeing the same old thing. I mainly tomb lately, but I hear even GvG has turned into hugely spike heavy. While all viable and effective builds it always upsets me to see the game become too weighted in one direction. Hence the thought inducing thread.