Curse

Iciris · Mar 29, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

I have been thinking of trying to start a ranger or air spike build but which do you guys think is better..

Ganks · Mar 29, 2006, 03:43 PM // 15:43

I have characters ready to go r-spike or air-spike though to be honest my air spiker doesnt get much use anymore since the influx of noobs coming into pvp with their stock iway builds (Meaning its difficult if not impossible to find a group).

I personally think ranger spiking is far more effective than air spiking because: Rangers dont require as much energy; Arrows move faster than orb projectiles, especially with FW; rangers cant be interrupted or shut down easily; and finally, what I find the most important of all, it is much easier to find a group. As for Air Spiking, Ive recently found pleasure in messing with water hexxing mixed with some air skills but that wont be any help in tombs especially when youre up against a guild with a decent rank.

So, again, even though Im waiting for the day that Air Spiking dominates Hero land, henceforth referred, by me, as "carebear land", that day will never come ever again in the standard guild wars that we know and either Necros or Rangers are considerably dominant in terms of the spiking genre of PvP. Perhaps Factions will change that but to be honest I am not too confident of such a theory when consideration is given to anet's idiotic "nerf" theories of what it decides should and shouldn't be nerfed.

Air Spiking is Dead. -wipes a tear-

To be honest Tombs is pretty dead in America anyway so I would stick with Iway if you want to go anywhere in tombs otherwise youll spend more time looking for a group than you will actually being in one. As much as I claim R-Spike is easier to get into than Air Spiking.. to be honest there isnt much of a difference in time spent looking for a group and youll sit around spamming for groups for a good half hour, at least, anyway...

R.I.P. my beloved Tombs. You will be missed... well... not really.

icemonkey · Mar 29, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

ranger spike has more versatility: players have more armor, you have the ability to pick any secondary class, easy intterupts, spirits, oath shot, reasonable defense spells like whirling, expertise is a better primary attribute, you get a necro to stash a martyr on, harder to interrupt....the list can really go on.

as ganks said:air spike(a 100% air spike) is dead. The air spiker in a mixed spike is very much alive

Ganks · Mar 29, 2006, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Yes, you are correct icemonkey. Though mostly only in a guild group will it be pulled off effectively.

Edit: Good luck finding one though. You'd sooner find a quarter in a wishing well.

icemonkey · Mar 29, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

yeah i would say you are not gonna have a lot of luck finding a mixed spike pug. Usually its guilds or friends doing it.

JR · Mar 29, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Agreed with what Icemonkey said; When comparing Ranger spike to any kind of caster spike (off the top of my head) it does come out as more durable and harder to counter. Especially with the free secondaries; no need for Mantra of Resolve, Healing/Prot.. etc. Instead you get the free space to run Hex Breaker, Gale, Drain Enchant.. etc.

Iciris · Mar 29, 2006, 05:06 PM // 17:06

sweet. ill try out ranger spike..
what kind of skills would i want to use.. like for gvg and stuff?

JR · Mar 29, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Seeing as this appears to be a more general thread, i'll move it to the main Glads section, instead of HA.

Byron · Mar 29, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iciris

what kind of skills would i want to use.. like for gvg and stuff?

Depends on the need of the spike, as a well organized spike will have lots of different secondaries for the 3-4 ranger tandum.

Your bow is: Vampiric horn bow of Fortitude.

Your main skills are: [Dual shot]*[Savage shot][Read the Wind][whirling defense]

The other skills are variant depending on the build. A R/Me with the phantom pain/shatter dilusions combo isn't uncommon, or a R/Me with enchantment removal and Cry of Frustration(CoF continues to be the best skill in the game). R/Ws are nice to have for "Watch Yourself!," "Shields Up!" and "Charge!" R/E is nice to have for glyph of energy/gale and maybe a ward or two. R/Mo can pack martyr/purge. Hell, even R/N would be good with rend enchantments, linguring curse, and/or barbs. And if you're going to HA, you'll need at least 2 rangers with frozen soil and fertile season for holding purposes.
So what you need to do is pack those 4 essential skills listed above, and get into a team. Ask them what they need, and then you respond with re-rolling. Or, if you're looking for GvG, then you need to tactically plan your secondaries.

*Savage shot over punishing for the 5s recharge as opposed to 8s with punishing; Dual shot recharges in 5 s. Then as well, you can bring another elite in its stead. Props to Wanna Be Gangsta for pointing this out to me.

icemonkey · Mar 29, 2006, 07:14 PM // 19:14

r spike in GvG is not that viable its more for tombs. Theres just too much distortion, endure pain, shields up and splitting in GvG coupled along with ranger spikes recent nerfing by way of Order of vampire.

Wasteland Squidget · Mar 29, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Icemonkey is quite correct as far as GvG goes, in my opinion. Ranger Spike has a lot of counters which are more frequently brought to GvG than HoH (heavy block/evades, use of terrain, Shields Up, heavy energy denial, ect.)

In the meantime, Rifts has moved up the ladder quite well running a fast-casting Air Spike build. They're capable of dealing out plenty of damage and can spam Blinding Flash to deal with warriors effectively. They're also able to split reasonably well by gale-locking the monk in each team and spiking him down. It's a pretty effective spike build that counters the current metagame rather well.

Of course, it has a number of vulnerabilities and some well-coordinated mesmers could shut it down, but it's not necessarily easy.

nightrunner · Mar 30, 2006, 02:50 AM // 02:50

The cookie cutter Ranger Spike:

R/Me:
Dual Shot
Punishing Shot
Savage Shot
Read the Wind
Spirit Slot
Drain Enchantment
Whirling Defense
Resurrection Signet

This build is quite good for PUGs. Having three attack skills (Dual, Punishing, Savage) is very useful, because in a PUG it's probable that your spike will be off, it's likely that one of your spikers will be incapacitated, and Orders has been nerfed. As Byron said, you will be expected to bring a Vampiric Horn Bow of Fortitude. I prefer the Flatbow, as it has a longer range (RTW and FW deal with arc), which outweighs the Armor Penetration IMO. Bring the Horn Bow if the rest of your group is though.

If your group is skilled enough, it's a very good idea to bring different secondaries. For example, a R/W can bring "Shields Up!", or "Charge!" if your group's spike is good enough for you to drop Punishing Shot. The R/E can bring Windborne Speed for the Ghostly.

Lady Lorwinia · Mar 30, 2006, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemonkey

r spike in GvG is not that viable its more for tombs. Theres just too much distortion, endure pain, shields up and splitting in GvG coupled along with ranger spikes recent nerfing by way of Order of vampire.

Quoted for truth. Sadly

E-denial mesmers also hurt r-spikes.

That is.. if they are alive long enough^^

Patrograd · Mar 30, 2006, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemonkey

r spike in GvG is not that viable its more for tombs. Theres just too much distortion, endure pain, shields up and splitting in GvG coupled along with ranger spikes recent nerfing by way of Order of vampire.

I'm not sure about this at all. There are a number of decent ranger spike GvG teams. Its not a build that will get you into the top 50 and keep you there in all probability, but of all the possible spike builds ranger spike is the most versatile because of the free secondaries, not to mention the fastest (dual shot has a 5 second recharge). There isnt another spike that can spike every 5 seconds I dont think. A ranger spike team can miss half its spikes and still outspike a typical rainbow spike team, which is a scary thought.

So yes, it has the same weaknesses as any other spike buid, and this is limiting, but to say its not viable for GvG is just wrong IMO.

Ensign · Mar 30, 2006, 06:53 AM // 06:53

In general ranger spikes hit a lot harder than caster spikes, but a caster spike can fit a lot of utility into the build because, well, you're a bunch of casters instead of rangers. The two have different sets of weaknesses so they aren't directly comparable. They both have their place.

Peace,
-CxE

dansamy · Mar 30, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Ranger spike is viable in GvG, but not often run exactly the way one sees it operating in HA. In HA, I frequently bond for ranger spike groups that consist of 4 rangers, 1 Me/N fast-cast orders, 2 heal and 1 prot. In GvG, there's usually a bit more variation to the build. I've seen it run with 4 spikers, 1 orders, 1 runner and 2 boon prots. I've also seen it done with 3 rangers, 1 shutdown mes, 1 orders, 1 runner and 2 boon prots. Many teams use it as a quick "jump" up the ladder by spiking a bunch of lower ranked guilds during non-prime time.

icemonkey · Mar 30, 2006, 02:28 PM // 14:28

I was in a guild that ranger spiked the top 50 before the OOV nerf, thats not possible anymore, not in a pure ranger spike form. You have to mix something else in there, it can be ranger heavy but, you need more than just rangers and a fast cast orders to be effective, and i don't consider going from rank 3000 to rank 200 requiring an effective build.

but ensign you are right and wrong: in a mixed spike you can get more utility than a ranger spike but a pure obsidian flame spike or air spike you get less utility than a ranger spike. You have to consider whether the spike build you are using requires elites, if it doesnt then you have a ton more utility(blood spike fore example). Ranger spike requires about half of your elites, so its in the middle. Being a caster has nothing to do with utility, anyone can cast a spell...maybe you mean extra pip of regen?

Patrograd · Mar 30, 2006, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemonkey

I was in a guild that ranger spiked the top 50 before the OOV nerf, thats not possible anymore, not in a pure ranger spike form. You have to mix something else in there, it can be ranger heavy but, you need more than just rangers and a fast cast orders to be effective

SoT have been in the top 10-15 all season (ie post OOV nerf) running absolutely pure ranger spike.

They are a long way from being the only top 100 ranger spike side either.

icemonkey · Mar 30, 2006, 06:15 PM // 18:15

do they run the build that nightrunner posted? Becuause that is pure ranger spike. I have not seen SoT play.

They are gonna lose any match that has players that are fast and have distortion. Distortion and to a lesser extent endure pain completely gg a ranger spike if used effectively. Thats why my guild stopped doing it.

wheel · Mar 30, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemonkey

do they run the build that nightrunner posted? Becuause that is pure ranger spike. I have not seen SoT play.

They are gonna lose any match that has players that are fast and have distortion. Distortion and to a lesser extent endure pain completely gg a ranger spike if used effectively. Thats why my guild stopped doing it.

They run 4 rangers and 1 orders for the spike.