Curse

Jan 24, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

if they nerf iway cuz they r supposobly talking about it (we have alpha tester in guild) wonder what all the non rank 9 iwayers will run (rank 9 iways because they are bored and just wana shoot shet which is cool) but all em lower ranked people who obviously are 2 pussy to think of builds up or starting groups up....

Have a good one

p.s. thanks for locking the other thread dork

Tarus From Taros · Jan 25, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by T Waters

if they nerf iway cuz they r supposobly talking about it (we have alpha tester in guild) ...

Please, don't speculate on that. It's one thing to assume IWAY will be nerfed and it's another thing to make a comment like that. There is no evidence what so ever that i've seen that even suggests IWAY will receive a nerf of any kind. As a matter of fact, IWAY is more LIKELY to be around then it is to dissappear. Examples of this are the usage of IWAY in the Zaishen missions and Gaile Gray mentioning the developer team felt IWAY was balanced.

However, I do feel that IWAY has certainly overpowered the PUGS in Tourny. I don't think there's any question about that. In order to get into a Group of anything besides IWAY one must go to Tourny with Friends or Guildmates. That is a bit rediculous. In order to solve this problem we as a community should take a step back and look at what makes IWAY so popular and try to emulate something as attractive in future builds.

One of the most important and overlooked facts about the popularity in IWAY is that the group is consisted of the most common profession in the game, Warriors. So many people are quick to jump on how "unskilled" iway is they dont bother to think that the reason why IWAY is actually so popular is because it actually gives some purpose to warriors. I don't know statistically how much the Warrior profession is used compared to the other professions but i'd say they probably win by a landslide.

Next, I'd also like to point out how easy it is to acquire the skills needed for an IWAY warrior in PVE(Since most use PVE Warriors):
Rez Sig: Lakeside County(Presear), Ascalon city
Charm Animal: Presear, Old Ascalon(Quest) or Ascalon City
Executioner's Strike: Barradin's Estate(PreSear),Ascalon City
Cyclone Axe: Barradin's Estate(Presear), Ascalon City
Sprint: Military Matters Quest (Old Ascalon), Yak's Bend
Disrupting Chop: Grendich Courthouse, Yak's Bend
"I Will Avenge You!": North Kryta Province
Predatory_Season: Dropping Eaves Quest (Ettin's Back)
Edge of Extinction: The Lost Princess Quest (Fishermen's Haven)
Eviscerate: Sorrow's Furnace cap (only difficult skill to achieve)
*Of course there are more variations of skills but I think you get the general point here.
So if the first character you make is a Warrior you won't even need to complete the game and you already have a build thats very efficient in PVP.

Jan 25, 2006, 04:22 AM // 04:22

why would our guildie lie? anyway I know its piss easy to get iway skills because nobody likes to grind for the stuff....

they can nerf or they cannot dont matter to me....iwayer that are just new to guildwars will blow even more if they dont have anything to play....and everybody know that that why its only sticking around....

take it easy bro

TMWNN · Jan 25, 2006, 05:58 AM // 05:58

cyclone axe in iway?

Tarus From Taros · Jan 25, 2006, 06:40 AM // 06:40

it's not a skill constantly used but sometimes equipped to deal with groups that ball up. Guildwiki listed it and I can see why.

Patrograd · Jan 25, 2006, 09:34 AM // 09:34

IWAY doesnt need a nerf. There is absolutely nothing overpowered or unbalanced about it. Any well designed, well played build will beat IWAY nine times out of ten. To find out why so many new players especially are running IWAY you need to look a little deeper.

What do players new to HoH want?

1) An organised build. ANY organised build. You dont have to been in many blind PUGs to realise that you arent going to get any fame any time soon that way.

2) As they are new players, they soon realise that each run is going to constitute one, two possibly three fights, spanning perhaps as much as 15 minutes. They dont want to then spend 30-40 minutes standing around trying to find another team when someone or everyone inevitably leaves the group.

3) They dont have TS or vent or are uncomfortable using it

4) They dont want to get involved with advanced map tactics

Now it used to be that you could jump into a smite build pretty quickly, or a spirit spam build, and get your fame that way. Both of these builds however WERE unbalanced and needed to be nerfed as in the hands of good players they were just unstoppable. Maybe they were nerfed too hard? Certainly neither is a viable build any more, and this leaves only IWAY as a build that meets the above criteria as being suitable for a low ranked player to get onto and enjoy enough success to keep the experience rewarding enough to merit continuing. HoH is a fame factory. Most people play it purely to get fame so they can flash their emote. Sad as that may be, it appears to be a fact.

Such players to my mind are missing out on what Guild Wars is all about - the cut and thrust and tactics of GvG battle, but that's their loss I guess. maybe they'll come to it when they're bored of farming fame and want to try the different challenge of farming rating, an ultimately much more rewarding experience as the result is shared by the group, not just the individual. until then, or perhaps more realistically until Ch 2 comes out, IWAY is here as the vehicle of choice to the new tombs player, and ranger spike the vehicle of choice of the more experienced tombs player. Neither are unbalanced IMHO(although ranger spike will be in Ch 2 unless someone nerfs nightmare weapon). Tombs is just dull, get used to it

Order Of Thy Sword · Jan 25, 2006, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by T Waters

p.s. thanks for locking the other thread dork

Calling a MOD a "dork" isnt smart, nor respectful.

Whens the last time your guild took halls? Sorry, just noticed youre a town dweller. GL on rank 3

I am so freaken sick of IWAY, yet the IWAY whiners really get my goat, if you cant beat IWAY, jesus, how do you wipe you own butt?

wheel · Jan 25, 2006, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by art_

Maybe it does, and im naive, but i dont think there are many people who 'farm' fame beyond r3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

If that was true, you would not see any R6+ IWAY LFG, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by art_

Perhaps these groups think they have a chance of winning HoH.

If you're trying to win HoH, you would also be trying to hold HoH, yes? Of course. And if you're trying to hold HoH, why wouldn't you use a build that's good at holding HoH? IWAY is notoriously horrible at holding halls for obvious reasons. I stand by my statement that R6 IWAY groups are simply farming fame. Getting to the HoH or even winning the HoH is an afterthought.

Gogetter · Jan 25, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

IWAY as a build that meets the above criteria as being suitable for a low ranked player to get onto and enjoy enough success to keep the experience rewarding enough to merit continuing.

*cough* all i see in tombs is R3+++, R6+++ i even saw a R12+++ group all spaming for iway (emote at henches) crap.

Good luck finding a iway group that can win much fame if your under R3

Patrograd · Jan 25, 2006, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogetter

*cough* all i see in tombs is R3+++, R6+++ i even saw a R12+++ group all spaming for iway (emote at henches) crap.

Good luck finding a iway group that can win much fame if your under R3

The thinking probably goes something like

"I've got to rank 3 using IWAY, and nothing but IWAY. Why would I change now?"

of course, this is cutting off a whole load of superb balanced builds and others that are open to rank 3+ players, but hey, its their game and they can play it how they want. As I said, HoH is a fame farm, its all most people seem to go there for, so its natural that they will stick with what they know.

Fantus · Jan 25, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

IWAY doesnt need a nerf. There is absolutely nothing overpowered or unbalanced about it. Any well designed, well played build will beat IWAY nine times out of ten.

Yes, but I but a build that can beat IWAY has to be organized, while IWAY is way easier to set up and run. The very fact that IWAY needs no organization, not voice comm, no planning at all - that's what made it so popular in the first place.

IWAY by and itself is not the problem. The fact that 90% of all PUGs are using it is the problem.

JR · Jan 25, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

To quote something I said on another forum:

Quote:

IWAY is a good build that is popular due to the fact that it is insanely easy to PuG with compared to other builds. It is a decent build, it does have success, it will teach you the basics of PvP, its simple to run, and a new player will be able to find a group. Will it help them progress? I think so.

Don't get me wrong, I am as sick of seeing IWAY in tombs as you are, but I really blame the 'leet rank 9' IWAY pugs for that. Players who should know better, and be able to run a more complex build that will yield more success, but don't and can't.

fiery · Jan 25, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Although I do not like to brag your reply somewhat provoked me so I will say that just for fun we held 11 in a row yesterday...I am in Forsaken Sanctuary guild (which is filled not by only some of the collest dudes in GW but also alot of experienced players) You probly see that world spam u know ....

Another thing I do not like to brag about but you've also provoked me again is my fame/rank because it is a team effort and rank dont mean nothing but a emote....I am rank 9 if you do not believe me add T Waters, Main O or Freekey Zeekey and ill be glad to show u that I am not a lier....ofcourse everyone is fully entitled to their own opinion...that is why im laughing at your little remark but hey I aint mad at ya

have a nice day

p.s. I will try to somewhat take your 1st line into consideration...depending on how blissfull i feel

goog job..want a cookie? im feeling blissful as well

<-- SEE BLISSFUL ...we have enough threads flaming IWAY and yes it is hella easy to beat..overpowered i think not.

tafy69 · Jan 27, 2006, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiery

goog job..want a cookie? im feeling blissful as well

<-- SEE BLISSFUL ...we have enough threads flaming IWAY and yes it is hella easy to beat..overpowered i think not.

I hate to keep going over the same stuff but people still dont get it

IWAY is only easy to beat if your team meets a certain criteria,

1. Good Players
2. Oath shot trapper
3. Earth Warder

Havent you even wondered why the only balanced teams left in tombs are the Surge Teams

2 Surgers
1 Trapper
1 Warrior
1 Earth Warder
3 Monks

To your point of Overpowered, well the build is overpowered. Compunded by the fact that anyone running the build can beat a team of a higher skill level, and requiring no communication etc.

Suggestions for possible rebalancing:

1. HoD Helm Fix (Would make owning a SS necro actually good instead of mostly useless)
2. IWAY not affecting pets or a cap on maximum time (The skill is most broken and overpowered at the moment)

This wont stop people running IWAY but hopefully make it more beatable which makes it less popular. Noobs still have their build to begin their tombs career with, which i dont mind in the slightest.

JR · Jan 27, 2006, 09:48 AM // 09:48

IWAY is not overpowered at all. And neither do people run it because it rocks everything. The simple fact is that it is very easy to put together a team, and you get FAST wins and losses. Perfect for farming fame. A decent balanced build going into tombs has to take some warrior hate with them yes, it would be stupid not to. Is that really a big deal? Not really.

You want to make IWAY go away? Fix the fame system. Make people lose fame for losses. Then maybe people will stop running IWAY to farm it. That is the SOLE reason why it used at all, because fame is farmable.

Good day to you, sir.

tafy69 · Jan 27, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

A decent balanced build going into tombs has to take some warrior hate with them yes, it would be stupid not to. Is that really a big deal? Not really.

What are the options?

1. Anti Warrior Hexes (Currently warth jack S**t with the hod helm around)
2. Trapper ( So all builds have to have a trapper now?)
3. Warder (Nice with a trapper, otherwise it will probably get your team killed)

As i said before nearly all balanced teams need a trapper, Warrior and a earth warder, thats huge problem!

That kinda limits the builds you can make...

The Acolyte · Jan 27, 2006, 05:02 PM // 17:02

A spiker or two with glimerring mark will ruin a warriors day, especially if they are all trying to agro on the same toon. Monks make very good bait...

Anyway, IWAY is not overpowered. That's like saying that primary trapper groups or degen groups are overpowered. People just need to get more creative when they play. Oh, and please get vent or TS, and get in a decent guild as well. I've seen some people complaining in game about IWAY strength and they aren't using either; no wonder they can't beat IWAY groups (also, moving around helps

)

More and more people are learning how to beat IWAY groups, and I can see a day in the future when people will go "remember when it was easy to pvp with IWAY." Just my two cents...

The Acolyte

Divine Elemental · Jan 27, 2006, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

I hate to keep going over the same stuff but people still dont get it

IWAY is only easy to beat if your team meets a certain criteria,

1. Good Players
2. Oath shot trapper
3. Earth Warder

Havent you even wondered why the only balanced teams left in tombs are the Surge Teams

2 Surgers
1 Trapper
1 Warrior
1 Earth Warder
3 Monks

To your point of Overpowered, well the build is overpowered. Compunded by the fact that anyone running the build can beat a team of a higher skill level, and requiring no communication etc.

Suggestions for possible rebalancing:

1. HoD Helm Fix (Would make owning a SS necro actually good instead of mostly useless)
2. IWAY not affecting pets or a cap on maximum time (The skill is most broken and overpowered at the moment)

This wont stop people running IWAY but hopefully make it more beatable which makes it less popular. Noobs still have their build to begin their tombs career with, which i dont mind in the slightest.

you forgot Brains,
Brains screws up iway does it not?,
this thread has changed to another Flame teh n00bsaur iway build..

Squalus the Ipno · Jan 27, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

I'm from Italy and usually i go in english district and personally i've had few problems to enter in a group. I'm a mesmer without rank LOL.
Personally i think the players take too seriously this game.
This is that i don't understand

JR · Jan 27, 2006, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

What are the options?

1. Anti Warrior Hexes (Currently warth jack S**t with the hod helm around)
2. Trapper ( So all builds have to have a trapper now?)
3. Warder (Nice with a trapper, otherwise it will probably get your team killed)

As i said before nearly all balanced teams need a trapper, Warrior and a earth warder, thats huge problem!

That kinda limits the builds you can make...

Whats your point? That doesn't contradict what I said at all; IWAY is overused, not overpowered.

As for the HoD helm, I doubt many standard tombs pug IWAY warriors will be using one of them, 90% will be PvP warriors. But fair point, a "good" IWAY team might be kitted out enough to screw you there. So that leaves warders and trappers. I don't entirely see how a warder will "get your team killed", and trappers are pretty damn nice against IWAY aswell. Then of course theres crip-shot rangers, air eles with enervating/flash, aegis... Plenty of other options.