Curse

Kabale · Nov 30, 2005, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Beh.. All these energy surgers, I dunno. Mesmers have so many more lethal combo's..

Gwenhywar · Nov 30, 2005, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y.T.

deleting 1 of my pve chars so i can make w/r and run iway is out of question too

You don't have to go play iway, in fact I would suggest you NOT to contribute to the plague even more. However, having a free slot for PvP characters is mandatory if you want to be versatile enough to do competitive PvP.

The only solution I can propose you without a PvP slot is to specialize in 1 class that you can play, be sure to get at least 2 sets of armor (like tatoos and judge's set for monks), with superior vigors, get all the hats with respective superior runes, and all kinds of maxed weapons (collectors or respective green items). Also be sure you can switch your secondaries to anything, and have enough skillpoints and cash to quickly buy any skills from a secondary class the team's build might require. You will also need to work getting all the elite skills you might need ahead of time.

Frankly, getting a PvE character ready for competitive PvP involves so much time, effort and cash that it's much easier to just unlock everything and keep creating PvP chars according to need. I have my PvE monk set up for using in PvP but that's viable for me since I play monk 80% of the time and it saves me some of the annoying PvP char deleting (besides it's convenient to have ID kit in hoh - I'm too curious to wait untill the run is over to ID the stuff

).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorien of Mandos

You can't expect people to just throw you on their team with no indication at all of your ability - thats akin to asking for a six figure salary job with no resume.

Well said. But then, people have the same attitude IRL too, don't they

. They'll envy their old classmate who works in a big law firm and makes big $, forgetting that the guy had to do several years in law school + several years of grind as someone's assistant to be able to make the income he's making now - all the effort that they probably never wanted to invest in their own careers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbgtboy

Just IWAY your fame out, my guild iway group (MATH) makes around 100 fame per day with iway, on a bad day we make 50 fame

hmmm, remind me again why should people have any respect for your guild and their iwayed ranks? Oh right, they don't.

tomcruisejr · Nov 30, 2005, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwenhywar

hmmm, remind me again why should people have any respect for your guild and their iwayed ranks? Oh right, they don't.

how about people who spirit spammed their way? or smited(ether renewaled) their way? or airspiked their way? or eoe bombed their way? or ranger spiked their way? or farmed (coz they decided to stay up on a certain time when IWAY groups are hot as pancakes) their way.

i dont understand why people look down to "iway" and treat it as the lowest group build ever conceived.

white mantles in kryta use "i will avenge you" skill. even king jalis ironhammer use iway.

there are people who give you free fame with iway. be thankful to them. coz you're getting your rank 6-9s by beating up people with "mindless" build while you're doing your rocket science uber skills with 3 monks to back you up.

and when people (i.e. MATH) using this "mindless" build beat you, still you give no gg's or respect to them.

doesnt make any sense.

"iway" is the most difficult build to run because it lacks a solid defense (aka pucca haired monks). if a group can run that well, thats something.

its a general veiw that people who came from "iway" can only run warriors, necro and rangers, nothing else and that makes them noob. well, specialization is always superior to versatility. and remember, most of these people played a class they liked/mastered before converting to iway because they can't get into good tombs groups.

Shen Xi · Nov 30, 2005, 08:17 PM // 20:17

the white mantle use IWAY even when there aren't any dead bodies around! (then again so do a fair few IWAY warriros i see , lol). i don't see hoardes of pets following around the white mantle legions do you?

and where is ironhammer's pet elder wolf called ghostly hero?

as for all the crap IWAY around, they are free fame mroe times than not, but, i would rather play a variety of different builds rather than use essentially play the same match several times over suing the same skills and same tactics to beat another clone team. that just isn't really much fun after the 198478935729865398th time.

as for the arrior, nec and ranger comment, it's cos it's true! if all you play are those 3 classes and very specific versions of those three classes then yes that's all they can play. and what makes them limited players. even people who only play rpimarily one class generally run different sorts fo build and get to know the extent of what their charcter class can do.

but in iway it's the same skill, used the same way, ad nauseum.

as for iway being a difficult build to run? roflcopters

please tell me you don't seriously buy into that? any build which relies on kamikaze pets is... actually, that kinda says it all really.

Gwenhywar · Nov 30, 2005, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

"iway" is the most difficult build to run because to lacks a solid defense (aka pucca haired monks). if a group can run that well, thats something.

Thank you for giving me food for a new siggie ;D

Everyone makes a choice in GW ... either you go the hard way and learn things by playing all kinds of skill and build setups, and learn to come up with working builds yourself, or you just jump on the fame grinding iway machine that doesn't teach you much, but allows you to get your emotes after some grinding - and it will eventually, also because competition in tombs currently is horrible (due to most good players being bored of 90% of tombs being iway and mainly just GvGing).

I have met rank 6+ warriors that didn't even know how to use vent ... made me smile abit, but after all it's not my problem - I have fun playing the game the way I want, hopefully they do too.

tafy69 · Nov 30, 2005, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwenhywar

Thank you for giving me food for a new siggie ;D

Everyone makes a choice in GW ... either you go the hard way and learn things by playing all kinds of skill and build setups, and learn to come up with working builds yourself, or you just jump on the fame grinding iway machine that doesn't teach you much, but allows you to get your emotes after some grinding - and it will eventually, also because competition in tombs currently is horrible (due to most good players being bored of 90% of tombs being iway and mainly just GvGing).

I have met rank 6+ warriors that didn't even know how to use vent ... made me smile abit, but after all it's not my problem - I have fun playing the game the way I want, hopefully they do too.

Actually IWAY Teaches quite a lot..

Noob warriors start off in noob iways, they start to learn things e.g take eviscarate and axe rake and not hundred blades, tigers fury instead flurry etc

After they iwayed a lot they will have a grasp on how to play warrior and will remember what team they defeated and which did well etc.

Then this iway warrior can start getting into normal teams as a TF axe Warrior, it goes on and on and they learn more and more.

Eventually they come out the other end as a R6+ player, even if he only stuck to playing warrior im sure he would be decent addition to any r6 team.

The only problem is if he starts playing monk or something, but aslong people are honest and say i can only be warrior or ranger or necro then thats fine.

IWAY is a Warrior training school for noobs, farmers and pve ppl.

tomcruisejr · Nov 30, 2005, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shen Xi

the white mantle use IWAY even when there aren't any dead bodies around! (then again so do a fair few IWAY warriros i see , lol). i don't see hoardes of pets following around the white mantle legions do you?

and where is ironhammer's pet elder wolf called ghostly hero?

they hit on IWAY when one of their own die (for the mantles). jalis hit iway when your thunderhead w/mo decided to solo summits.

Quote:

as for all the crap IWAY around, they are free fame mroe times than not, but, i would rather play a variety of different builds rather than use essentially play the same match several times over suing the same skills and same tactics to beat another clone team. that just isn't really much fun after the 198478935729865398th time.

as a ive said, people use iway to fame farm and some people found their home to iway playing their favorite class (warriors, necros, rangers).

variety is ok. making a build perfect (Rus Corps Air Spike, pRp's Ranger spike) and using it to beat other builds is ok too. the thing about holding/perfecting a build and using it to beat other builds will only prove something: its not the build that makes you win but it's the people who knows how to use that build, and understands the limits and potentials and can use it to beat another build.

Quote:

as for the arrior, nec and ranger comment, it's cos it's true! if all you play are those 3 classes and very specific versions of those three classes then yes that's all they can play. and what makes them limited players. even people who only play rpimarily one class generally run different sorts fo build and get to know the extent of what their charcter class can do.

but in iway it's the same skill, used the same way, ad nauseum.

warriors done with iway will make good tanks (can nail down targets fast). tainted necros will make good casters and area dmgers. orders necro will make good monks (orders of pain and vamp look like heal party and aegis to me and they run monk skills too). iway trappers will make good strategic trappers.

awareness of the battle field and self reliance are only few of the many traits that you will find on serious iway players.

Quote:

as for iway being a difficult build to run? roflcopters

please tell me you don't seriously buy into that? any build which relies on kamikaze pets is... actually, that kinda says it all really.

kamikaze pets? iway has been running for months and people have learned months ago that killing pets is a no no. still people dont learn?

in pve, they always need monks. pvp balanced builds relies on monks. and pvp balanced have this melee protections (aegis/wards+overheals)

its easy to form iway groups, yes. iway is difficult build to run coz 3 of the tombs map are altar maps (1 of which is the HoH). its not designed to "hold an altar".

glenn_rolfe · Nov 30, 2005, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

i dont understand why people look down to "iway" and treat it as the lowest group build ever conceived.

"iway" is the most difficult build to run because it lacks a solid defense (aka pucca haired monks). if a group can run that well, thats something.
.

Look, this isn't an anti-iway thread, but seriously, you don't know why people hate IWAY?
And you seriously think it is difficult to run? Sure, you guys vary yours up a bit with interrupt rangers, which is a subtle mod, but let's face it, it's robotic, and frankly fighting against IWAY now is just a drill, so it dilutes the map-to-map challenges.

glenn_rolfe · Nov 30, 2005, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

Actually IWAY Teaches quite a lot..

Noob warriors start off in noob iways, they start to learn things e.g take eviscarate and axe rake and not hundred blades, tigers fury instead flurry etc

.

Sorry, this couldn't be further from the truth. IWAY warriors don't learn how to call targets, switch targets, call condtion removals, run adrenaline spikes at the right time, understand how to act with what hexes on them (like hitting through spiteful spirit), know how to run relics - they just run around and bash and grind.
You pick up a war r6+ and ask them to run shock warrior build - no storm artifact, no frenzy, air magic about 4, no knockdown gauntlets, blah blah blah. To me, that is a ridiculous lack of knowledge at that level.

Shen Xi · Nov 30, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

they hit on IWAY when one of their own die (for the mantles). jalis hit iway when your thunderhead w/mo decided to solo summits.

and also they hit it when there is no one dead! and what does the pve game ahev anything to do with tombs anyways?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

warriors done with iway will make good tanks (can nail down targets fast). tainted necros will make good casters and area dmgers. orders necro will make good monks (orders of pain and vamp look like heal party and aegis to me and they run monk skills too). iway trappers will make good strategic trappers.

awareness of the battle field and self reliance are only few of the many traits that you will find on serious iway players.

ok, first of all, referring to warriors in tombs as tanks? again are we suddenly talking about pve? lol

and order necros making good monks as orders look like heal party and aegis? hahahahahah... stop it, seriously my sides are starting to hurt now. how the hell does spamming orders on numbers party memebrs number 1-5 have anythign to do with using heal party at the right time. the only time you will see heal party being spammed is.... oddly enough if you're surrounded by iway and all the pets mean you do have enough energy with channeling to spam it.
so what if they use monk skills, so do wa/mo's, do you think that a wa/mo would make a good healer?

as for the warriors, ask then to play anything other than w/r and hit called targets that someone else calls and they're generally not goign to eb able to manage.

tainted necros make good casters? how? all they do is spam tainted on the entire party and also deal with coprses

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

kamikaze pets? iway has been running for months and people have learned months ago that killing pets is a no no. still people dont learn?

in pve, they always need monks. pvp balanced builds relies on monks. and pvp balanced have this melee protections (aegis/wards+overheals)

its easy to form iway groups, yes. iway is difficult build to run coz 3 of the tombs map are altar maps (1 of which is the HoH). its not designed to "hold an altar".

aoe and traps will still kill off pets, bit unavoidable really. so in effect you are sayig rather than kamikaze pets providing the corpses, that your stretegy can reply on the warrirors dying! even better idea!

as for the difficult to run comemnt you were trying to make running iway sound like an actual achievment and rocket science. ganking ftw (sarcastic)

simple way would be attempt to kill everything that moves and run in hero at the last second.

don't try and build up iway to something it's not. it's simple and it works vs new players and unprepared teams. vs 2 noob teams, one balanced and one iway the iway will probably win. so what happens? thye'll nto bother with pvp/balanced or hop on the band wagon and play good ol' iway, joy!

try playing something that requires a lil more thought, who knows, you mgiht even like it!

tomcruisejr · Nov 30, 2005, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shen Xi

ok, first of all, referring to warriors in tombs as tanks? again are we suddenly talking about pve? lol

tanks = frontliners = warriors. same thing to me

Quote:

and order necros making good monks as orders look like heal party and aegis? hahahahahah... stop it, seriously my sides are starting to hurt now. how the hell does spamming orders on numbers party memebrs number 1-5 have anythign to do with using heal party at the right time. the only time you will see heal party being spammed is.... oddly enough if you're surrounded by iway and all the pets mean you do have enough energy with channeling to spam it.
so what if they use monk skills, so do wa/mo's, do you think that a wa/mo would make a good healer?

as for the warriors, ask then to play anything other than w/r and hit called targets that someone else calls and they're generally not goign to eb able to manage.

tainted necros make good casters? how? all they do is spam tainted on the entire party and also deal with coprses

ive played this build 38940928532904324923 times as a trapper and ive seen things beyond people slashing, tainting, ordering, trapping...

Quote:

as for the difficult to run comemnt you were trying to make running iway sound like an actual achievment and rocket science. ganking ftw (sarcastic)

simple way would be attempt to kill everything that moves and run in hero at the last second.

winning a game is annihilating all, capturing a relic and capping an altar.

Quote:

don't try and build up iway to something it's not. it's simple and it works vs new players and unprepared teams. vs 2 noob teams, one balanced and one iway the iway will probably win. so what happens? thye'll nto bother with pvp/balanced or hop on the band wagon and play good ol' iway, joy!

try playing something that requires a lil more thought, who knows, you mgiht even like it!

air spiking was respected because Rus Corp perfected it. ranger spike, pRp.

if this shitty, "mindless" build gets some respect from people, its an achievement. :P

Rey Lentless · Dec 01, 2005, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Iway isn't designed to win or even really get to the hall. It's designed to beat a team 1 on 1, in a non altar/relic running situation.. and only if they're unprepared, don't identify your aoe/ball breaking mods, or don't have enough defense or enough aoe to deal with it.

When people are making a group, they have a choice. Do you want to run iway and most likely lose relic and altar holding maps, and have a moderate chance against average balanced teams.. or do you want to make a build that's designed to get to, win, and hold the halls. That's why iway's noobish, you're basically saying.. I'm not good enough for option b there, so I'm going to play iway. The side effects of that.. is that you don't learn as quickly how to do option b. You don't have people in your guild learning to monk, mesmer, ele, or even play a warr on a balanced team, etc. It's a diablo build that teaches very little about the game.

Your comments on what iway teaches you, and how it's difficult, support that you haven't learned much about this game and will struggle moving to a different build.. much more so than your average player with equal fame. It does at least show you the maps and what builds people are running, but that's really something that's only going to benefit people under rank 3. By then, people know the maps and iway's learning experience is over.

You Math guys, while trying to brag about your guild, just effectively put up a big warning sign for the rest of us.

glenn_rolfe · Dec 01, 2005, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Let's face it, no matter how you try and gloss it up, playing IWAY consitently carries serious baggage in this game because non-IWAY players (and by that I mean players running builds capable of winning and holding the halls) think that IWAY is a joke build, designed only for 1v1 gank. It's formula with a well known solution.

Ranger spike/rainbow spike/the old air apike/smiting etc. carry respect (even if a little formula driven) because those builds are/were strong builds designed around the map strategies.
IWAY isn't, and the longer you play it, the more rank and fame you brag about having from playing in it, the less respect the wider PvP community has for that player. That's just a fact. But if you're OK with that, you make that choice.

Shen Xi · Dec 01, 2005, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

ive played this build 38940928532904324923 times as a trapper and ive seen things beyond people slashing, tainting, ordering, trapping...

that has nothing to do with the comments you made about how an orders necro would be a good monk because they use monk skills and orders are like aegis and heal party? lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

if this shitty, "mindless" build gets some respect from people, its an achievement. :P

don't expect to be achieving much then, as glenn said, the majority of the pvp community sees iway as a joke and have no respect for it whatsoever.

Elrodien · Dec 01, 2005, 10:38 AM // 10:38

How come a perfectly good topic always degenerates into an IWAY slagging match? The reality is, IWAY is here to stay until it gets nerfed (and I don't see why it should as good teams can easily take out an IWAY build, and a good IWAY team can get to the HoH). It has its limitations, but so does every build. Why hate IWAY? Just accept it as part of the game and get on with it.

lishi · Dec 01, 2005, 12:22 PM // 12:22

the other day i was testing a new guildies to see if he is good or no ...

He saying he have around 800 fame , good.

He take warrior role , in fact he chosed W/E

Eviscerate -> ok
Executioner's Strike -> ok
Bonnetti -> Oo
Endure pain -> oO

....

Kabale · Dec 01, 2005, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

How come a perfectly good topic always degenerates into an IWAY slagging match?

Well, this thread was asking for it, because, as you can tell there's a lot of frustration surrounding the amount of IWAY teams in Tombs. The discussion is on topic, IMO.

As for the people slagging off MATH because all they do is run IWAY... I don't think it matters. They are successful, I see MATH in halls a lot and our group respects them for it... While also feeling slightly relieved that it's an IWAY team, we know that if they manage to take down a key player on our team, the rest could fall pretty fast (edge hurts...especially within the last 1-2 min of the match).

I do agree though, running IWAY all the time and getting rank6+ doesn't make you a good player. Most likely you're stuck cycling between 3 or 4 distinct roles where you don't have to change skillbar to suit the team... Someone that's had to run with a specific skillbar, join a totally different group with a different build and have to run a completely different skillbar makes you a good player.

Linkusmax · Dec 01, 2005, 01:41 PM // 13:41

In fact it isn't on-topic, the thread is about the elitisim in tombs. The nigh on impossibility for new players to get ranks because no one will give them a chance.

You could be the best player in the world and know everything about the various maps but be unable to find a group who will take you. If you want to find a good group ask people questions ikts the only real way to test the mettle of a player.

In fact I find that some of the smartest groups are IWAY hybrid groups because alot of them arent so much worried about ranks but about whether you know what you are doing. And these builds are automatically considered brainless even though many of them have adapted to be able to deal with alters and relic rushing. Havent you seen this fact? the advent of trappers and prot monks in the build, the requests for players with TS, I think IWAY is adapting to become a competitive facet of high level PvP.

Now Im not calling myself an awesome PvP player but I am fairly good, yet I now often run IWAY whenever I tomb because its the only way I can get into an even slightly competent PuG without wasting hours trying to find someone who understands thats its not rank but knowlege that matters. Not that thats helped by the fact I don't use one of the other ludicrous and just as brainless flavour of the month spiker or trapper rangers. Yes they are brainless, it does not take that much ability to spike or trap and the build wasn't designed by its users either.

Yes I run a Beastmaster, and its an effective build but now I solely use it for Arenas because it just takes far to long to find someone who realises it can be an effective addition to most builds. heck thats why I started the thread to get help to design a Beastmaster team build.

I think you IWAY bashers are really acting like selfish little children, let the IWAY users have their fun, take your counters and stop crying if you lose to one thats modified itself to win Halls, give them the respect they deserve cause they were the better players on day. They must of been right with a build as n00bish as IWAY? I say good on you [MATH]! In the end remember its just a game, everyones just trying to have fun.

Shen Xi · Dec 01, 2005, 02:53 PM // 14:53

the frustration with IWAY is that it is killing the tombs scene. So many mroe ranked players now that have no clue what they are doing if they are not playing their pre-defined iway roles.
people are sick of playing against iway 3/4 matches
the fact that it's driving away a lot of good players from the game/tombs
i don't know that many people but i still do see a fair amoutn who ahev stopped pvping or switched to GvG exclusively because of the state of tombs at the moment.

Linkus - no one will want a beastmaster as it's an odd build and doesn't fit in very well with most team builds. and 8v8 pvp is all about the synergy between the 8 players. you can't take msot builds and just slot in a beast mater and expect it to work as well.
the closest role i can see would be a beastmaster filling in the role as warrior, doing constant highish levels of damage and bothering casters. but as i stated in the other thread, pets cannnot change target quickly, cannot help bodyblock effectively, then you got relic running and other stuff which si usually a warrior's domain.

Linkusmax · Dec 01, 2005, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Thats true up to a point Shen Xi, and maybe I didn't elaborate enough. I also tried running an ele, I have every skill and every rune for it. But could I get anyone to let me join unless they were some random group? no I never did.

Anyway I better get off now, damn lightning!