Curse

ibex333 · Nov 19, 2005, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey Lentless

Why should you get an equal amount of fame for beating crap teams, while higher ranked teams would have to beat much better teams to get the same amount of fame?

How does that make sense to you, other than the fact it would be to your benefit?

Well I suppose I didnt exactly state my thought well. That is not really what i meant. It's just that players who already have R3+ are getting fame at insane rates, when players below rank 3 are struggling to get to it. I hope you can understand waht i mean.
If I was to relate this to Rich and Poor model, I'm NOT suggesting to take away from the rich and give to the poor. I'm suggesting better opportunities for the poor to BECOME rich.

PS: Tafy69, you are absolutely right. I agree with you.

PPS: Listing skill bar doesnt help. A leader of the rank 3 group told me that I know what I am doing, but he will not take me since I'm not rank 3. Simple.
Yet again, understand that I'm not bitching per se. I am trying to overcome and adopt. Just stating my thoughts since this forum was made for discussion. Is that not so?

heist23 · Nov 19, 2005, 03:33 AM // 03:33

rank is difficult to get, seeing as most PUGs get run over after a couple rounds. and since fame is received at piecemeal increments. i've just gotten rank 1 because of IWAY. 27 fame.

blah.

i seriously think that most r3 teams aren't that good, either. i've been in rankless PUGs and we've still run most teams over. i guess that just means that if you're r3+, you'll just be able to get into a wider variety of teams.

yangster · Nov 19, 2005, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by heist23

i seriously think that most r3 teams aren't that good, either. i've been in rankless PUGs and we've still run most teams over. i guess that just means that if you're r3+, you'll just be able to get into a wider variety of teams.

That is the only reason why I wanted to be rank 3. I wanted to be in good balanced teams and some other builds which usually ask for rank 3. Now I just Tomb with a friend or start my own group. Rank just tells me how much experience you have in Tombs with the maps and pvping. I only used IWAY when I was with a friend and he needed one more player so I joined, it was a guild group. We did good but I started playing iway after getting my rank 3 with some rare good balanced pugs.

Fantus · Nov 19, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey Lentless

Why should you get an equal amount of fame for beating crap teams, while higher ranked teams would have to beat much better teams to get the same amount of fame?

How does that make sense to you, other than the fact it would be to your benefit?

Because a crap team needs just the same amount of effort to beat another crap team as a good team to beat another good team? A GOOD team would still get much more fame than a crappy team because they are able to do consecutive victories while a crap team can't do that.

Does the idea to make PvP a bit more accessible to new players make SOME sense to you at all? GW is not made for PvP specialists only. It SHOULD cater to people who play BOTH PvE and PvP without wanting to join a PvP only guild, you know? Yes, you played along the current system and succeeded in it. Congratulations on that. It's just that Tombs isn't supposed to be an elite club made for PvP only players playing in PvP only guilds. The current system made it that way. I like the rank system for players HIGHER than rank 3. It works pretty well for them because they can make groups with players having roughly the same level of experience. It doesn't work at all for players lower than Rank 3. Yes, I think that's something that needs to be tweaked. There is no need to hurt players who already are ranked - but yes, it SHOULD be easier for new players to get a team together and start fighting. If you are so opposed to that I can only assume that you'd actually like to keep the tombing community a closed shop.

Rey Lentless · Nov 19, 2005, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Good players figure out how to work within the system. Bad players come here and ask for things to change. Guess which one you are?

Tombs isn't closed to you. Winning at a high level might be, but you don't seem to have any interest in changing your own skill level, you want the competition brought down to your own level and then.. be rewarded for it equally as well, that's ridiculous. You can still win a couple maps even with the crap team.. playing other crap teams.. and that's already a likely occurance.

Quote:

It SHOULD cater to people who play BOTH PvE and PvP without wanting to join a PvP only guild, you know?

In other words, it should cater to YOU. I don't agree.

Quote:

There is no need to hurt players who already are ranked

People already get to rank 6 with iway quite often and it does in fact hurt the rest of us. We end up with crappy rank 6 players, which in turn makes us not want to take the other random rank 6 players. Creating a system where it's even easier to get to rank 3 and 6 and so on would be even worse. You're asking to get to rank 3 without actually improving, playing better builds.. or learning anything. The reason people take higher ranked people is because there is an assumption that they actually did something to get there.. learned the game, had some success, experienced all the maps, etc. Why would anyone take you into a group if you essentially did nothing to gain your rank?

This is just selfish whining that won't help the game... it's just designed to help YOU. And it wouldn't help you much either, because you'd be handed something you hadn't worked for, and as soon as people saw that you weren't yet a good player.. you would no longer be welcome in their groups. You'd just have an emote that you could show to people that you hadn't played with before, which isn't a very good way to win in this game.

Quote:

If you are so opposed to that I can only assume that you'd actually like to keep the tombing community a closed shop.

From what I've seen from your comments, yes, I'm glad I'm not in any groups with you right now. You want something without working for it, without improving, without learning.. and that's not the kind of player I want to play with.

a cadet · Nov 20, 2005, 12:39 AM // 00:39

I agree with Rey... way back when, (several months ago), I could make a "rank 3+" group, and admittedly it wasnt the greatest pug ive seen, but the people that had the rank 3 emote were decent, if not good. Right now, this isnt even true for rank 6. Ive tried it multiple times; creating a "rank 6+" group with completeley random people, chosen only because they have the wolf emote. The results were horrible. These players were far worse than any ive seen in quite some time. There can be no doubt that the rank system was cheapened.

On a side note, all the "rank 3+" people i played with before eventually found their way onto my friends list, and the ones that still play gw are all rank 7-8 and feel the same way i do about the rank system. Something has definetly changed.

(I can even remember back when maps like burial mounds were still 6-way free for alls, having rank 3 was simply amazing. However, i didnt tombs much back then so i cant say any more about it)

Diestro · Nov 20, 2005, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey Lentless

Good players figure out how to work within the system. Bad players come here and ask for things to change. Guess which one you are?

Tombs isn't closed to you. Winning at a high level might be, but you don't seem to have any interest in changing your own skill level, you want the competition brought down to your own level and then.. be rewarded for it equally as well, that's ridiculous. You can still win a couple maps even with the crap team.. playing other crap teams.. and that's already a likely occurance.

Much of what you just said I agree with, some of this quoted section I take exception to. Tombs is virtually closed off to many people these days. Those who aren't lucky enough to know other people who play this game do have difficulty getting into a pvp heavy guild, since they aren't generally given the oppertunity to prove what they already do know, or to show that they are willing to learn and improve. Unless you join a guild that was formed yesterday, you'll be lucky to find a pvp guild willing to take inexperienced players. Those that have already joined a guild, and perhaps been in one for quite some time, while playing through the pve portion of the game, may find themselve in a guild they have a great deal of fun with and many friends in, so thier desire not to desert a pve guild leaves them out of a majority of pvp, and they're stuck with CA/TA.

As has already been pointed out, not being in a pvp guild leaves you at the mercy of pugs when you go to tombs, and no matter how good of a player you are, winning with a pug has as much to do with luck of the draw as it does any single player's skill. If you're lucky, you can pick up with a halfway decent balance build, or maybe even stumble into a group designed around your build. From what I've seen in the tombs in the past week, a new player can hope for the best with finding others in the same boat and creating the afformentioned builds (which are actually few and far between from what I've seen, most of your time is spent watching other people come and go while you sit and wait), or they can bite the bullet and create a character for iway. As much as iway gets bashed in the forums, its amazing to see, not only the number of iway groups running, but the virtually complete lack of other groups willing to take on a non-ranked player. A new player with a fotm build like ranger spike will stand a better chance at getting a group than any other build, but even then the groups usually want at least r3+.

I really have nothing against r?+ only taking on players of thier own rank in forming groups, but they are putting those of us that haven't gained rank yet, and don't have the benefit of all our friends playing the game to form a guild with, in a catch 22 situation. We have to gain fame and rank to be respected enough to be given a chance, but we can't get into a decent team to get that fame and rank.

Someone suggested a 'training grounds' for tombs with a 6v6 random group and maps with similar build to tombs. I'm not totally against the idea, but it would suffer from the same problems as the 4v4 arenas. Builds that would be well made for the team setting of the tombs, would likely be weak in a random group with no support structure. Builds would still have to be somewhat self sufficient to have success, and tombs are about team continuity, which you can't have in a random enviroment.

The one thing that keeps getting said that I disagree with is that "the system makes it unfair for people without rank". The system of rank is fine how it is now. Its the players that dictate who gets to play, and how they get to play. Until a day comes that players decide to give other players the benefit of the doubt and give inexperience players a chance, the gap between new players and tombs veterans will continue to grow, and take a good portion of the game away from players. For those experienced players out there that say it just takes patience and persistance to get a good team together, I ask only one thing. Take 5 minutes of that half hour you put towards building a team and simply talk to that unranked player. Ask about thier build, tell them what role they would be playing, and don't dismiss someone because they can't emote an animal. In less than 5 minutes, you can usually tell if someone is willing to adapt, learn, and improve, and learn if thier attitude will be helpful or detrimental to a team. If they prove to be a moron, the kick button is there on the right. You mau just find that the unranked person is more of a team player than the the r9+ dingleberry that thinks he's '1337'.

Rey Lentless · Nov 20, 2005, 03:20 AM // 03:20

I understand and realize it's harder to gain fame when you aren't ranked yet. I was in that position just a few months ago.

All of the suggestions I've seen are really short sighted however. None of these will work. If you make it easier to gain fame.. then the rank won't mean as much. That means you'll be playing with the same crappy groups after rank 3, and even rank 6. The less you make rank matter, the less people will trust it. This already exists somewhat. This means people won't look for random people but simply choose from their guild and friend list. This will make teams harder to get together and ultimately make tombs less active.

Right now, you people unranked are much better off if it's hard to rank up. That means once you do have a deer or wolf, people will see that emote and assume you're a half way decent player and you're worth trying out.

If you make getting fame too easy or eliminate rank all together, you'll totally screw yourselves. The good players who know each other will only trust each other at that point and new people won't get a chance. With the way it is now, you're at least going to get a shot once you gain some fame.

Once again, the pvp guild option is the best one, friends list/your own group is the second best option.

I'm not in a guild either and haven't been (except for a couple days) in one since I've been tombing, so I know a guild isn't a requirement to fame up.

There are a lot of new people hitting rank 3 and rank 6 every day. A lot of them don't have guilds or friends who are high ranked. They're doing something to get to that point, and so can you. Maybe you can spend some time pming them if you don't like the suggestions on here and ask them how they did it. YOU can do something.. if you're not willing to, then maybe arena's a better fit for you guys.

This is a game and pvp is competitive. Someone has to win and someone has to lose. You aren't farming tengu to rank up, you're beating other people (denying them fame) to do it. If you can't look at yourselves and figure out what you can do better, then I'm sorry, but you're just on the losing end of the competition. The people winning, gaining fame and ranking up are doing something you're not. Whining won't help. Getting rid of fame and rank won't make you win. There are people that are going to be better than other people in this game.

a cadet · Nov 20, 2005, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Quote:

Ask about thier build, tell them what role they would be playing, and don't dismiss someone because they can't emote an animal. In less than 5 minutes, you can usually tell if someone is willing to adapt, learn, and improve, and learn if thier attitude will be helpful or detrimental to a team. If they prove to be a moron, the kick button is there on the right. You mau just find that the unranked person is more of a team player than the the r9+ dingleberry that thinks he's '1337'.

this is unfair to people already in your group; you cant say its a "rank _+ group" if you randomely accept some people into it. I used to take a lower ranked guildy with me in some groups, and one person pointed this out to me. ALthough i wouldnt nescessarily agree with someone that leaves a group on the basis that one person isnt a high enough rank, i do agree that it is unfair on your part as the leader in essentially lying about the group.

One thing i dont understand about this: when i was a lower rank, sure i sucked. It was very difficult for me to win in groups, and i used to think that 1-2 wins per group was amazing. As i played more and more, i increased in experience, saw more of tombs and i think i can say that im a better player than i was back then. Consequently, my standards improved and i started to think that a good group should at least get as far as the first relic run, etc. The rank system did have some rational behind the spacing, getting 180 fame in unranked groups is probably as hard as getting 820 fame in rank 3 groups. And dont forget that every rank 9 you see was once rank 0; everyone was in the same boat at some point in time.

The reason i think so many people are frustrated now is because groups like ranger spike, but especially, IWAY groups have upset this balance completely. Without any IWAY groups, i am willing to bet 90% of the rank 3+ people would still be rank 1 or 2, and definetly some rank 6 players wouldnt be there yet. What this means is that when you join a rank 6+ group, you may essentially be joining a group whos skill level is on par with a rank 3 group. Similarly a rank 3 group may be at the skill level of an unranked group. What this means is that the spacing between ranks becomes unfair, and also deludes people into having higher standards.

I remember before the update, there were few to no rank 3+ groups. Everyone was unranked, people looked down on rank 3s as having "no life" much like people look down on rank 9s now. And it was perfectly acceptable to many people back then to get around 3 fame after 3 hours of game play. No one thought that they should be winning consistantly. Enter IWAYs.

Now suddenly everyone is at least rank 3; this already shafts anyone that isnt 3 already. On top of that, people who used IWAY groups to get their fame are starting to wonder why they cant win at all. Well ofcourse you cant, you havent actually ever played tombs.

Sorry if i kind of turned this into a debate on IWAY, but i think thats the root of the entire problem. People who only played IWAY - and are rank 3 - are wondering why they cant win in tombs when all of their experience in tombs is running at your opposite number with an axe and pressing the space bar. Even if some people got rank 3 legitimately, there will always be one of these fake rank 3s in a pug, and one or two people like that is enough to mess up a group.

The 'training ground' idea is superfluous; the first maps of tombs are that training ground. Sadly people dont understand that when they stop using IWAY groups, theyre at the same level as a rank 0, and this makes pugs impossible. I can personally testify to the fact that pugs are impossible; as a rank 6+ myself ive tried making groups that are rank 6. Once you finally do make your group, the players have almost no skill, or at least not the skill you would expect from someone with at least 1000 fame. Naturally i get frustrated, as do other people in the group, and i just wait until i have enough friends to make a group among people i know. And when i do, i am extremely suspicious of 'random' people i take in my group. Once again, i point this all back at the huge imbalance caused by IWAY.

And one last thing: some people attempt to "cheat" their way into rank 6+ groups by hoping no one checks their emotes. When i asked them why they do this, most replied "all the rank Xs suck". Well hello, you are one of those rank Xs and you probably suck too. Maybe instead of hoping you wont cause enough harm in a good group to make it lose you can... gain enough experience/knowledge in tombs so you can actually get to rank 6 (or whatever) and then contribute to the group?

Fantus · Nov 20, 2005, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey Lentless

Good players figure out how to work within the system. Bad players come here and ask for things to change. Guess which one you are?

Actually, I am doing both. And since I already admitted multiple times that I am not yet a good Tombs player, your comment doesn't hurt me that much, too.

I don't want to have ANYTHING made easy for me, EXCEPT ONE THING: Forming a group! You don't gain fame by standing around in Tombs for 1 hour and yelling LFG or trying to convince people that you actually might be useful for their team. I don't remotely wish to devalue rank by handing it to me the easy way. I want to fight for my fame just as you did and when I get my deer emote I want to be able to be proud of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey Lentless

Tombs isn't closed to you. Winning at a high level might be, but you don't seem to have any interest in changing your own skill level, you want the competition brought down to your own level and then.. be rewarded for it equally as well, that's ridiculous. You can still win a couple maps even with the crap team.. playing other crap teams.. and that's already a likely occurance.

Actually that's the very same thing I'd like to have: Getting a chance to fight another crap team in the first map and not regulary getting stomped over by guild teams coming from the Top 100 in the Guild Ladder. Yes, sometimes I am meeting another crap team in that map. Guess where I got that pitiful amount of fame from I already have! More often, the opposition is made from very organized PvP Guild teams who beat us in like 2 minutes and probably laugh their butts off over their TS server while beating the hell out of us. You don't learn much from that, btw...

The other possible solution could be to introduce a Rank 1 "badger" emote. It would at least shorten the time where you actually are unranked. It could lead to people who won their first couple of matches to form "ranked" teams themselves and not have to wait hours until someone takes them in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey Lentless

In other words, it should cater to YOU. I don't agree.

No, I said it should cater to BOTH. Please don't turn my words around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey Lentless

From what I've seen from your comments, yes, I'm glad I'm not in any groups with you right now. You want something without working for it, without improving, without learning.. and that's not the kind of player I want to play with.

If that's what you read into my words, I can't help you with that. I never said or meant anything like that. I was looking for solutions to make Tombs more accessible to new players, that's all ("accessible" isn't the same thing as "made easy"). All I heard from you were the "the system didn't work for new players when I did it, so it shouldn't work for you, too" type of comments. But feel free to put me on your ignore list if you like.

neoteo · Nov 20, 2005, 11:27 AM // 11:27

the problem imo is , lack of leaders

if you dont like w8ting one hour , take the respocibility and start your left a not random build and go for it.

tafy69 · Nov 20, 2005, 11:47 AM // 11:47

I also aggre for ppl to have a cute little Rank1 Emote, maybe a bunny rabbit or something

jules · Nov 20, 2005, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

I also aggre for ppl to have a cute little Rank1 Emote, maybe a bunny rabbit or something

I'd trade my deer for a bunny wabbit.

/signed

Fred Kiwi · Nov 20, 2005, 02:47 PM // 14:47

I just have a hard time finding a decent build. I had a nifty ER healing ele, but..grr *mumbles about nerfing*

Zeldawind · Nov 20, 2005, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn_rolfe

This is the number 1 complaint to players new in PvP. The biggest frustration I have with inexperienced players, is not that they don't know how to use their skillbar (well a lot of time they don't), it's that they don't understand the maps.

So I suggest, do IWAY, farm out your 180 fame to R3, get use to the maps, understand relic runs, res orbs, alter holding, claim resource etc.
Then when you get to R3, you'll get into different groups running better builds, and you won't be a liability. And do it by playing necro.

1. I know the maps in HoH now im r4 360 fame. I still cant get a party.
2. I know all 6 chars and i dont like mesmer and necro so i dont play them and i dont learn how to play those builds i only learn how to counter them.
3. The only way to get a party under 2 hours when ur not rank 6+ is IWAY.
Your answer to the last point is: IWAY yourself up s you only know IWAY warrior and Tainted Necro Order Necro trapper and thats it. So then you have r6 people who dont know how to play anything but IWAY.

Guild thingy:
1. Your guild musnt ignore you
2. It helps if your guild is active
3. Even in guild they like to have players from their guild who have experience.
If you have less experience they will ask others first. The 1 whit the lowest experience will be asked last.
4. My guild plays at different times then me so i dont see half of the guild mostly.
5. The other guild members must be willing to come to PvP.

Now dont give me the whining about that im a noob or something.
I know all 6 proffessions from PvE i learned there skills when i was playing PvE.
I play PvP for a month now so i am not new to it. But the problem is the people above rank 6 who are the problem. I wont say all people above rank 6 but just look around you dont see many rank 6 people inviting other ppl who are under r6 because they rather have ppl who seem to have experience in PvP. But ive seen r0 play better then a rank 9. Only because the rank 9 IWAYd himself up.

So how to get rid off IWAY in tombs?
My answer is accept lower rank ppl in groups teach them how to PvP and not force them into playing IWAY to let other people think they have experience.

borkbork · Nov 23, 2005, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Over the past few days, a couple guildies and I just stand in tombs, saying 'R6 group looking for more... rank not required, just join us!' After all, we have some spare time and we're willing to help out unranked people get some experience in tombs.

We've been trying to teach pugs the very basics of the maps on Tombs, but man. Pickups these days are SO bad.

We got a boon healer (Mo/N) with offering who ran Mending so 'he could protect himself from the 10% hp loss. We got eles that still insisted on casting firestorm... We had mesmers casting Backfire+Empathy on a single target (because W/R's can cast devastating spells!) We had necros that lost every corpse. We also had monks that were using Live Vicariously to heal people.

We went 10 rounds. Lost every match.

Where are all these 'unranked' and very experienced people?

Where are these bad players coming from anyways? And these unranked pugs have horrible attitudes... they refuse to change their skill slots at all and would rather argue that Mending on monks > you.

So.. there you go. Groups tend to not grab unranked people since it's just too much of a gamble and hassle to deal with them. :\

AncientPC · Nov 23, 2005, 11:34 PM // 23:34

I'm 60 points away from r3 so I'm still stuck with unranked groups. While I agree that there are good unranked players, they make up a small percentage of unranked players.

In my experience unranked players are:

10% know exactly what their build should be, willing to change to adapt, and know what the team should be doing.

35% generally know what they're doing and follow along.

35% don't know what they're doing but shut up and follow along anyway, willing to change skill sets and tolerable in most cases.

20% are loudmouthed idiots who spout nonsense. IWAY teams with 4 warriors with sprint and no spirits. Insisting on using Cyclone Axe in IWAY. Order necros that insist on running into the middle of battle to cast blood wells. Trappers that don't bring Dryder's Defense / Mantra of Resolve but still try to lay down traps in the middle of all the fighting. People who quit the instant 4 people on their team are dead.

It's the 20% that give the best rest of the unranked players a bad name. Then again I'm only r2 so maybe people feel the same about me. *shrugs*

What I hate the absolute most is that it takes like 30-45 minutes to put together a PUG non-IWAY, non-random group and then someone quits 3 minutes into the battle.

unamed player · Nov 23, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Bah all ranks are meaningless now anyway. Everyone with high rank is either a 24/7 iway farmer or is an old schooler like me whos been in tombs for ages. It doesnt mean we're any better because all the old builds we won with dont exist anymore. Actually, i cant really talk because im only rank 4 but ive only tombed about 20 times in the 6 months ive played (won all this rank in one guild session testing a build). The real skill is in GVG where you meet the top guilds who gank you within 3 minutes. I go in tombs now and all i see is "rank 9 bla bla lfg". Totally blown out of proportion and ive been playing longer than most of the people at rank 9.

You dont need to prove your skill to anyone..and personally i think tombs is full of egotistical morons who copy eachothers builds and label themselves l33t. Its unfortunate i dont have a guild to gvg with anymore but i certainly stay away from tombs due to the mentality the way it is today. Hell, you get more fun in random arenas..at least they have an excuse for sucking.

Also, all the top guilds are Korean and they are the same ones who were at the top since this game first came out. So, if you want some good action find a guild that likes to gvg. Let the IWAY zombies run all day for the emotes that mean 0.

tafy69 · Nov 24, 2005, 08:11 AM // 08:11

im glad the emotes are there tbh, i still often have to kick noobs out of the team who got all their fame thru iway tho

Nowadays you gota ask for rank and their build to "spot the noob" if im desperate for a certain class, i would take anyone aslong their skillbar sounded good.

Advice for unranked : If you see a group thats having trouble finding a person, pm then and give them your skills and say you can do the job. If you got the right build then most likely they will take you.

Giving a crappy build will get you ignored tho so make sure you know what your doing.

Another tip: Dont try getting into teams as a monk unless your ranked, you will be trying forever. Trapper or warrior is your easiest bet.

Gwenhywar · Nov 24, 2005, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonfal

I don't believe in complaining without a suggestion for a solution, so here it is. A random 8v8 arena.

1) random tombs groups? it defeats the whole purpose of tombs, and will never beat organized groups.

2) Random tombs already exist

. I get blind invites (usually by wamos) every time I log in my character and load in a random american district ... if you like randomness, just click accept and go. *shrugs*.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey Lentless

The less you make rank matter, the less people will trust it. This already exists somewhat. This means people won't look for random people but simply choose from their guild and friend list. This will make teams harder to get together and ultimately make tombs less active.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey Lentless

This is a game and pvp is competitive. Someone has to win and someone has to lose. You aren't farming tengu to rank up, you're beating other people (denying them fame) to do it. If you can't look at yourselves and figure out what you can do better, then I'm sorry, but you're just on the losing end of the competition. The people winning, gaining fame and ranking up are doing something you're not. Whining won't help. Getting rid of fame and rank won't make you win. There are people that are going to be better than other people in this game.

Nicely said, Victory. I wish people were actually paying attention to what you wrote, though, but probably most will just continue whining ...

Saddly, due to the mindless plague named iway, rank already means much less than it ment when I started tombing a few months ago. You can get a random rank 6 warrior that doesn't even know how to use vent ... kinda hints at how he got his wolfie, doesn't it?

I'm still amazed people come here to post things like "I'm playing this amazing water ele build, why doesn't anyone group me?". You will not succeed in tombs/GvG before you change your thinking to realize that good builds will have definite ROLES that each player needs to perform, thus flexibility, patience and ability to quickly adapt is what people will be looking for. If you want to run a build where you can play your amazing water ele - go ahead, make up a working build, and gather a team for it!

But if you don't want to bother organizing a group and are looking to join one - be FLEXIBLE and ready to play what the GROUP needs. I mainly play monks myself - nearly every build out there needs a different type of monk skillbar. Some weeks ago a friend was running a build that needed ViM healers, and we had many Mo/Me's repeatedly PMing to join the group - even after they were refused, because they said they did not have ViM unlocked!). Some did not even understand they were refused because they could not play what we needed, NOT because of lack of rank.

~Railin~