Curse

Medion · Apr 13, 2006, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Ok, I am about to post my first real build here, and I expect it to be very bad according to the top-players, but I would like to know what everyone thinks.

I have 2 requests: Don't flame to hard, and don't put my thread in the 'Threads of Hilarity' thread at Team-IQ

Warrior/Elementalist:
Final Thrust
Galrath Slash
Bull's Strike
Savage Slash
Gale
Healing Signet
Charge! [E]
Ressurection Signet

Swordsmanship: 12+3+1
Strength 4+1
Tactics 11+1
Air Magic 5

Warrior/Ranger
Eviscarate [E]
Executioner's Strike
Bull's Strike
Disrupting Chop
Rush/Sprint
Frenzy
Healing Signet
Ressurection Signet

Axe Mastery 12+3+1
Strength 7+1
Tactics 10+1
Beast Mastery 4

Necromancer/Mesmer
Vampiric Gaze
Order of Pain
Cry of Frustration
Drain Enchantment
Offering of Blood [E]
Blood Ritual
Illusion of Haste
Ressurection Signet

Blood Magic 12+3+1
Soul Reaping 9+1
Domination Magic 3
Inspiration Magic 6
Illusion Magic 7

Ranger/Mesmer
Distracting Shot
Oath Shot [E]
Debilitating Shot
Signet of Weariness
Mantra of Signets
Nature's Renewal
Serpent's Quickness
Ressurection Signet

Expertise 11+3+1
Domination Magic 12
Wilderness Survival 5+1
Inspiration Magic 4

Monk/Mesmer
Word of Healing [E]
Orison of Healing
Healing Touch
Signet of Devotion
Draw Conditions
Smite Hex
Inspired Hex
Divine Spirit (Drain Enchantment possibly)

Divine Favor 12+1
Healing Prayers 12+3+1
Inspiration Magic 3
Protection Prayers 0+1

Monk/Mesmer
Orison of Healing
Healing Touch
Mend Condition
SpellBreaker [E]
Infuse Health
Heal Area
Inspired Hex
Divine Spirit (Drain Enchantment possibly)

Divine Favor 12+1
Healing Prayers 12+3+1
Inspiration Magic 3
Protection Prayers 0+1

Monk/Mesmer
Reversal of Fortune
Guardian
Signet of Devotion
Martyr [E]
Mend Ailment
Inspired Hex
Divine Spirit
Drain Enchantment

Protection Prayers 10+3
Divine Favor 11+1+1
Inspiration Magic 10

Elementalist/Monk
Lightning Orb
Enervating Charge
Blinding Flash
Gale
Windborne Speed
Heal Other
Healing Breeze
Ether Prodigy

Air Magic 12+3+1
Energy Storage 8+1
Healing Prayers 10

General Tactics:
When 8 versus 8, the E/Mo is the runner and helps in between the run. The warriors deal the damage together with the necro who will be casting Order of Pain, Blood Ritual(on the monk) and Offering of Blood. He will using Vampiric Gaze as a selfheal after the sacrifices.
The ranger should put up Nature's Renewal, this way making it hard for Boon-prots and bonders, and draining their monks with the skills he has.
The monks seem rather clear to me, keep the team alive and the Martyr-monk has to keep the warriors clean.

When against spike, everything kinda stays the same, unless it's ranger spike, then the N/Me will become runner instead of the E/Mo and the E/Mo can blind/weakness the rangers.

When against split teams, the team will also split. The team where the opponent sends only one monk to, should meet this team;
E/Mo
W/E
Mo/Me (the WoH-monk)
The Ele and warrior do a gale lock on their monk and should kill him in that time, while the monk keeps them alive. The monk is supported by the elementalist.
The other team should just keep out as long as possible while the necromancer runs the flag as replacement for the Ele.

So, please tell me what you guys think.
Suggestions, comments and questions are welcome.

Divineshadows · Apr 13, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

I thought at first that this thread landed in the wrong forum. This looks more like a Heroes Ascent build -- having spellbreaker (for the ghostly hero) and all. Spellbreaker is a bad skill in GvG, because your opponent can just tab to someone else on your team. Some feedback on some basic points with the build:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

Warrior/Ranger
Eviscarate [E]
Executioner's Strike
Bull's Strike
Disrupting Chop
Fear Me!
Tiger's Fury
Healing Signet
Ressurection Signet

Axe Mastery 12+3+1
Strength 7+1
Tactics 10+1
Beast Mastery 4

Fear Me and Tiger's Fury do not combine well due to the blackout (loss of adrenaline) effect TF has on non-attack skills. More beast mastery and less strength.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

Necromancer/Mesmer
Vampiric Gaze
Order of Pain
Cry of Frustration
Drain Enchantment
Offering of Blood [E]
Blood Ritual
Illusion of Haste

Blood Magic 12+3+1
Soul Reaping 9+1
Domination Magic 5
Inspiration Magic 4
Illusion Magic 7

Not understanding why you have illusion of haste in here at all. What function does this provide? You do not need any points in domination for cry of frustration to be good (would only throw spare points in here).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

Ranger/Mesmer
Distracting Shot
Oath Shot [E]
Debilitating Shot
Signet of Weariness
Mantra of Signets
Nature's Renewal
Serpent's Quickness
Ressurection Signet

Expertise 11+3+1
Domination Magic 12
Wilderness Survival 5+1
Inspiration Magic 4

Looks like you are trying to make this character provide the same amount of energy denial that two domination mesmers can. The big problem is that this player needs line of sight (no obstructions) in order for oath shot and debilitating shot to land. Worse yet, this player could be impacted by blurred vision or blind. Mantra of inscriptions is much better than mantra of signets if you can get your inspiration a bit higher. This player has 12 in domination...why? Nature's Renewal is not going to accomplish much other than offering a distraction -- opposing team will kill it or interrupt you while laying it. Also, while your build is void of hexes, it does have a few enchantments such as guardian which will suffer on cast times from NR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

Monk/Mesmer
Orison of Healing
Healing Touch
Mend Condition
SpellBreaker [E]
Infuse Health
Heal Area
Inspired Hex
Divine Spirit

Divine Favor 12+2
Healing Prayers 12+3+1
Inspiration Magic 3
Protection Prayers 0+1

All 3 monks suffer from the same problems of low health and bad energy management. A superior rune and a major rune makes for 405 health even with superior vigor. Divine spirit as the only energy management? It will get drained or shattered as soon as an enemy mesmer or monk sees you cast it. Toss some energy denial the way of these monks and a warrior or two and they will have their face in the dirt fast. Word of healing is a better elite choice for this monk than spellbreaker. Heal area can realistically only be used as a self heal and you already have healing touch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

Elementalist/Monk
Lightning Orb
Enervating Charge
Blinding Flash
Gale
Windborne Speed
Heal Other
Healing Breeze
Ether Prodigy

Air Magic 12+3+1
Energy Storage 8+1
Healing Prayers 10

Solid air build, but would swap heal other for heal party since you plan to use this guy as your flag runner and will not be in cast range for heal other much of the time. Also, 15 air, 11 energy, 10 healing would probably work better for a stronger prodigy (only downsides are a little less damage on orb and enervating).

Overall, 3 rez signets and no hard rez is a little on the light side for GvG. It's also light on snares with only 2 copies of gale (which cannot be used that often) and 2 copies of bull's strike.

moriz · Apr 13, 2006, 09:51 PM // 21:51

the first things i've noticed are these:

-the first warrior does not have an IAS skill, which will make his pressure ability very low at best
-the second warrior's use of tiger's fury is kind of a bad idea. use frenzy instead. also, it doesn't have a running skill. take out fear me and tiger fury, and add frenzy and sprint/rush instead.
-one of your necro's only got 7 skills

Siliconwafer · Apr 13, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Looks like you are trying to make this character provide the same amount of energy denial that two domination mesmers can. The big problem is that this player needs line of sight (no obstructions) in order for oath shot and debilitating shot to land. Worse yet, this player could be impacted by blurred vision or blind. Mantra of inscriptions is much better than mantra of signets if you can get your inspiration a bit higher. This player has 12 in domination...why? Nature's Renewal is not going to accomplish much other than offering a distraction -- opposing team will kill it or interrupt you while laying it. Also, while your build is void of hexes, it does have a few enchantments such as guardian which will suffer on cast times from NR.

I would disagree. Mantra of Signets is far superior in this build due to Oath Shot; SoW can be cast twice every 20s provided Oath Shot hits-and this build is far superior at energy denial than a standard surge, provided your Oath Shot hits. I doubt that's much of a problem in you think smart.
NR looks nice, and will disrupt a boon backline, but without much warrior hate in the build there isn't going to be much punishment for a warrior whacking a spirit every few seconds or so. Maybe blackout to help stop enemy adren spikes, or help yours? Drain Enchant for enchant removal before a spike would be alright.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

Necromancer/Mesmer
Vampiric Gaze
Order of Pain
Cry of Frustration
Drain Enchantment
Offering of Blood [E]
Blood Ritual
Illusion of Haste

Blood Magic 12+3+1
Soul Reaping 9+1
Domination Magic 5
Inspiration Magic 4
Illusion Magic 7

I don't like this character much. OoB seems a waste unless you're going to be spamming orders a lot, especially with drain-in that case, they shouldn't be anywhere near the action. Maybe swap the */Me to a */Mo for Heal Party, take Dark Fury and have them go a backline caster. Or take Martyr and take it off a monk primary to make it more efficient.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

Monk/Mesmer
Orison of Healing
Healing Touch
Mend Condition
SpellBreaker [E]
Infuse Health
Heal Area
Inspired Hex
Divine Spirit

Divine Favor 12+2
Healing Prayers 12+3+1
Inspiration Magic 3
Protection Prayers 0+1

Agreed with Divineshadows. This isn't the way to do a three monk backline in GvG. If you want to drop NR you can take a standard boon, a util boon, and an infuse healer or go a standard two monk backline.
Spellbreaker/Infuse is woeful in GvG. As is Divine Spirit unless under QZ. As is Heal Area. I don't even like one superior, let alone a superior and a major. If your elite is locked out, Drain Enchantment and Inspired Hex should be your first two calls for energy management, not Divine Spirit.
Since you already have a WoH monk, maybe Energy Drain + boon skills, or Heal Other.
If you want anti kd/interrupt as an infuse, you could try a Balanced Stance WoH infuser, but I've never liked them. Rely on your infuser's positioning and the disruption of your offense to stop your infuse being stopped.

As said before, TF is a bad skill for the purposes of adren spiking. I'll put in some more suggestions later.

Senator Tom · Apr 13, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

mend ail for purge on the martyr monk, take out sb, take out gale on the warrior

might wanna have a me/mo that has martyr + dom maybe hex/condition removal and maybe heal party, have one word healer and one with MoR or somethin, then the emo would have party, other, maybe orison

sh4ft3d · Apr 14, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36

My only real suggestion is to swap out gale for shock on the sword warrior. And dump more in Beast Masteryfor teh axe, TF is a real drain on a wars energy. Perhaps take out Savage slash and put in Frenzy, and swap Charge for sprint. Personal preference really.

Medion · Apr 15, 2006, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Thank you all for posting your comments, I am going to change the build a little after I have done this post.
I am going to reply to (nearly) every comment, to make sure I understand the way you guys are reasoning. After all, it is at least as important to understand the changes as to change them.

First off, the last skill of the necromancer should be ressurection signet, sorry I forgot that.

I chose Heal Other on the elementalist, because when splitting, the necromancer replaces the elementalist as runner, and the elementalist will go with the WoH-monk. This way, the elementalist can assist the monk in healing himself. Or do you think Healing Breeze by itself is enough already?
The necromancer as replacement runner also explains the Illusion of Haste I think. And I will take points out of Domination Magic as you suggested. Maybe I should drop Illusion of Haste and go running as EviL did in the play-ups, where one character ran halfway and the other character brought it to the stand?

You are correct that the monks have a little bad energy-management. But do you think the opponent will have enough enchantments (even with NR up) to give 3 monks sufficient energy? I will change the major DF-rune into a minor.

I see your point on NR, shall I put Dust Trap in instead of distracting shot and then trap the spirit? I am not afraid of interupts of the NR-casting, as I can put it a long way back out of LoS and out of reach of mesmers, who have already few interupts that interupt actions, not spells.
One of my guildmates, told me that he thought Guardian was like a must because there wasn't much warrior hate. Are there other options according to you?

I will have to agree with Siliconwafer, Mantra of Signets is better here. Actually, because of SQ, I can do two Signet of Wearinesses in 14 seconds. I am not afraid of the LoS, because you can choose any character to oath shot, and I think as a ranger if you can't hit at least one person because of LoS, then you are not such a good ranger and will need to learn a bit about positioning. Blindness, that's why Draw Condition/Martyr/Mend Ailment is there for I think. Also, I would imagine the warriors are more likely to get blindness and such on them. Ofcourse hexes are dangerous, but with the added casting time, you will have shot Oath Shot already I think before they can react. Debilitating Shot isn't so important in this build, it is only there not to waste SoW, and to drain single characters.

I think I am going to change Fear Me and Tiger's Fury with Frenzy and Rush/Sprint. Any advise which of the two cancel-stances I should take?

I agree on spellbreaker not being a good GvG-spell. The monks of my guild however really thought it necesarry. I will point them out to this thread, and ask them again if they still think SB is that important. I am not going to change it yet, because I feel that when the monks can keep the team alive, they do their job and I don't mind how they do it.

I think I understand why Mend Ailment is better then Purge, it's because there won't be too many different conditions right? I'll change that in a minute.

I put gale on the warrior because I already have bull's strike. So they can't run away when I am close to them, but they can when I am far away. So I chose gale, and besides that, I really think gale is necesarry for the gale-lock.

Once again, thanks for all your replies. Of course more replies are very welcome.

tafy69 · Apr 15, 2006, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Your Ranger has 15 Expertise at 11+4, 14 is the breakpoint for 10>4 energy so you can boost some other attribute there a little.

The necro I dont really like, he doesnt seem to have much of a role in the team if you see my meaning.

Against some half decent teams you will find your NR getting killed as soon it apears and the Ranger will spend too much time making spirits than causing energy problems for their monks.

Hope that helps

Medion · Apr 15, 2006, 10:38 AM // 10:38

What about making the necromancer an Elementalist/Monk, looking something like this:

Obsidian Flame
Other Earthe Skill
Ward Against Melee
Ward Against Foes
Earth Attunement
Ether Prodigy
Heal Party
Ressurection Signet

Would that be a good option?

JR · Apr 15, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Glyph of Energy works better than Ether Prodigy on a character with Obs Flame and plenty of high cost skills. I would probably build it something like this:

Wardz
Elementalist/Monk

Energy Storage: 9 (8+1)
Earth Magic: 16 (12+4)
Healing Prayers: 10

Glyph of Energy [Elite] (Elementalist other)
Obsidian Flame (Earth Magic)
Glyph of Lesser Energy (Elementalist other)
Ward Against Foes (Earth Magic)
Ward Against Melee (Earth Magic)
Draw Conditions (Protection Prayers)
Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
Resurrection Signet ()

wolfy3455 · Apr 15, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

Warrior/Elementalist:
Final Thrust
Galrath Slash
Bull's Strike
Savage Slash
Gale
Healing Signet
Charge! [E]
Ressurection Signet

Swordsmanship: 12+3+1
Strength 4+1
Tactics 11+1
Air Magic 5

I really wouldn't use savage. It doesn't have interrupt timing so it's more of a spam interupt, but then it costs ten energy, which on a warrior is not a spammable skill. Replace it with disrupting chop. Gale was a spammable skill when exhaustion pretty much didn't matter. Now that exhaustion can't be negated, that ten energy cost is pretty steep for a warrior thats fighting off exhaustion. Gale locks can no longer be maintained. Shock only costs 5 energy and is generally used to knockdown standing targets or near-dead retreating targets when bull's is recharging. You don't even need any points in air magic to use it. Since the last major change, shock is just more effective than gale overall.

Quote:

Warrior/Ranger
Eviscarate [E]
Executioner's Strike
Bull's Strike
Disrupting Chop
Rush/Sprint
Frenzy
Healing Signet
Ressurection Signet

Axe Mastery 12+3+1
Strength 7+1
Tactics 10+1
Beast Mastery 4

Since you're not using any BM skills, you may want to take those points out of BM to get one more point of strength.

Quote:

Necromancer/Mesmer
Vampiric Gaze
Order of Pain
Cry of Frustration
Drain Enchantment
Offering of Blood [E]
Blood Ritual
Illusion of Haste
Ressurection Signet

Blood Magic 12+3+1
Soul Reaping 9+1
Domination Magic 3
Inspiration Magic 6
Illusion Magic 7

You're puting 7 points into illusion just for haste? You may want to stick with the one runner. Other than that, you have two e managent skills, but aren't really using any energy burning skills. If your constantly spamming OoP, you might need it, but this char can afford to do more than its doing.

Quote:

Ranger/Mesmer
Distracting Shot
Oath Shot [E]
Debilitating Shot
Signet of Weariness
Mantra of Signets
Nature's Renewal
Serpent's Quickness
Ressurection Signet

Expertise 11+3+1
Domination Magic 12
Wilderness Survival 5+1
Inspiration Magic 4

As taffy said, your expertise is higher than you need it. Maybe you could dump the extra stats into inspiration and replace nature's with drain enchantment as the stance switching is going to be a energy drain.

Quote:

Monk/Mesmer
Word of Healing [E]
Orison of Healing
Healing Touch
Signet of Devotion
Draw Conditions
Smite Hex
Inspired Hex
Divine Spirit (Drain Enchantment possibly)

Divine Favor 12+1
Healing Prayers 12+3+1
Inspiration Magic 3
Protection Prayers 0+1

I would replace smite hex with holy veil, draw conditions with mend ailment, and just not use divinie spirit. Veil has a slightly shorter recharge and can be precast against hex heavy teams, migrane mesmers in particular. You already have martyr, so it would be better to have a way to get rid of the conditions as opposed to moving them around. Divine spirit just has a huge recharge.

Quote:

Monk/Mesmer
Orison of Healing
Healing Touch
Mend Condition
SpellBreaker [E]
Infuse Health
Heal Area
Inspired Hex
Divine Spirit (Drain Enchantment possibly)

Divine Favor 12+1
Healing Prayers 12+3+1
Inspiration Magic 3
Protection Prayers 0+1

Spellbreaker really isn't very useful in GvG. The 1 second cast makes sure it isn't useful in spike protection, and it can't be used for anything else because of target switching. Heal area is also a waste. I'm guessing it's meant to be used as a self-heal, but you already have orison and touch for that. Also, if you need to self-heal, odds are theres warriors on you and you don't want to be healing them.

Quote:

Monk/Mesmer
Reversal of Fortune
Guardian
Signet of Devotion
Martyr [E]
Mend Ailment
Inspired Hex
Divine Spirit
Drain Enchantment

Protection Prayers 10+3
Divine Favor 11+1+1
Inspiration Magic 10

The outline looks sorta like a boon/prot without boon. It would probably be a good idea to carry protective spirit somewhere in the build and this seems to be a good char to do it.