Curse

Sofia Sofia Sofia · Apr 01, 2006, 07:38 AM // 07:38

There's always talk about how Anet does not like the predominance of spiking in PvP. Well, I think that they asked for it with Martyr.

Martyr makes pressure builds hard to do. Pressure builds can benefit greatly from conditions allowing to stick for longer. Right now conditioning is weak because of VERY easy condition removal, so pressure builds are weak, balance builds (good ones) have a hard time against spikers (good ones)

Why not make Martyr take longer to recharge? This way it will only be used when the entire team is falling apart from conditions, a sort of last ditch panic button. And then unelite it.

The Noble Savage · Apr 01, 2006, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Pressure revolves around hexes...

Murder In China · Apr 01, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Pressure is like what ^ said.

Byron · Apr 01, 2006, 07:48 AM // 07:48

If you were to nerf martyr, you would also have to nerf disease, which is the real reason people pack martyr. And, with the new skill extinguish, the condition removal only gets easier.

And as Noble Savage says, good pressure will rely on hex degen and e-denial to wear down an enemy team.

Leddy · Apr 01, 2006, 08:09 AM // 08:09

A good Martyr/Heal Party monk was what won iQ their match against Treacherous Empire. It requires planning though; ranges need to be calculated.

rii · Apr 01, 2006, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Its undoubted that martyr is good against a form of pressure - condition pressure.
Its not hard to almost max degen an entire team with poison and disease with one/two characters. A Curses necro to cap it off and thats just too easy 160dps. Martyr is a spammable couter to a spammable concept - conditions are applied and removed fast.

Thats why most people run hexes in pressure, albeit being a little harder to set up. Its not that conditions are totally awesomed by martyr, but its a strong enough counter to make it significantly less efficient than it would be without martyr.

Edit: O yeh.... heal party is almost if not more significant against degen builds as martyr.....

Schrale Kerel NL · Apr 01, 2006, 09:13 AM // 09:13

I agree that martyr should have a longer recharge time

Vermilion Okeanos · Apr 01, 2006, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leddy

A good Martyr/Heal Party monk was what won iQ their match against Treacherous Empire. It requires planning though; ranges need to be calculated.

I would agree with you if you say "One of the reason why iQ won their match against Te", because clearly, it was the failure of flag cap that lead Te to a bad decision to retreat and was capitalized by iQ. While 2nd match, they made a bad decision to go with that build. Unless you weren't talking about the GWWC regional, then I have no clue what you are talking about.

==========

I think martyr are fine as now. It is extremely easy to stack and inflict condition, hence, it should be just as easy in removing them. Besides, it should have been one of your team mate's job to sit on that martyr user if you want your condition pressure to work.

suiraCLAW · Apr 01, 2006, 10:47 AM // 10:47

I agree that martyr needs a longer recharge (15secs or something like that).

Phrozen_ · Apr 01, 2006, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofia Sofia Sofia

There's always talk about how Anet does not like the predominance of spiking in PvP. Well, I think that they asked for it with Martyr.

Martyr makes pressure builds hard to do. Pressure builds can benefit greatly from conditions allowing to stick for longer. Right now conditioning is weak because of VERY easy condition removal, so pressure builds are weak, balance builds (good ones) have a hard time against spikers (good ones)

Why not make Martyr take longer to recharge? This way it will only be used when the entire team is falling apart from conditions, a sort of last ditch panic button. And then unelite it.

Why not just disable their prot monk? signet of humility??

Blade Rez · Apr 01, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55

I disagree, because many times playing with Martyr just after 3 seconds after a use Conditions are reinflicted. The only way to prevent this if timing of Martyr is correct, however in many pug groups this can never be done.

Personally I take RC with Mend Ailment. In this matter I can remove conditions off my self, plus RC provides for a nice 110ish heal on another party member if the person only has 1 condition. Plus 2 second recharge is always a plus

tafy69 · Apr 02, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

The existance of Martyr and RC means doing a pressure team that revolves around conditions quite easy, all you need is humility mesmer on their prot and they have gone from great removal to miserable removal.

Remember the ViM teams?

art_ · Apr 02, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

Remember the ViM teams?

They still exist. Both the trappers, and the 'balanced' ones with ViM monks.

Evilsod · Apr 02, 2006, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Aren't monks looking into Melandrus Resiliance and ViM for energy management these days? Just somet i heard in FoW a few weeks ago

Besides if you hate Martyr so much disable it or take it out the game, a lucky Diversion or general E-denial can stop em. Plus if its because of a trapper wandering around w/ Apply Poison or somet you can guarantee the monks are still gonna be under pressure.

Thom · Apr 02, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Few points:
1)RC is equally damaging against a condition spam.
2)Good pressure involves four thing: conditions, hexes, energy denial and dps.
3)As stated above, heal party is as important as condition/hex control against a pressure build.

Frost_ · Apr 17, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofia Sofia Sofia

There's always talk about how Anet does not like the predominance of spiking in PvP. Well, I think that they asked for it with Martyr.

Martyr makes pressure builds hard to do. Pressure builds can benefit greatly from conditions allowing to stick for longer. Right now conditioning is weak because of VERY easy condition removal, so pressure builds are weak, balance builds (good ones) have a hard time against spikers (good ones)

Why not make Martyr take longer to recharge? This way it will only be used when the entire team is falling apart from conditions, a sort of last ditch panic button. And then unelite it.

lies ever good group with martyr has a monk or 2 with mend condition or ailment because a mesmer can shut down a prot easy. a good mes would Signet of Humility the prot and then migrain/conjure a heal monk