Curse

manga · Apr 20, 2006, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Here is my build,
http://gwshack.us/d5430

Still debating on another monk or an e-denial mes...

Anyway, this is a condition/hex pressure build, using sig of humility to remove their elite condition removal. The only things I can see stopping to this build is rediculously good energy denial and condition/hex removal spread throughout their team.

lishi · Apr 20, 2006, 11:22 PM // 23:22

savage shot on signet of humility will do as well.

or avoid the traps

also if you face a build with tained fresh your pressure gonna be very low.

manga · Apr 20, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Even without disease, you are still gonna have 7+ degen on most of them. Most people are too stupid to avoid traps, and it's really hard to avoid something you can't see and most don't keep track of. The sig of humility is mostly for ease, you can always kill the condition removal or just play through it.

BTW, it is not my intention to defend this build to death, I would like some suggestions to improve it, such as skill replacements or even total char replacements

Red Locust · Apr 21, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Migraine interrupt mesmers are pretty bad. Either go with straight illusion hex mesmers, or domination energy burn + surge mesmers, depending on the focus of your build.

ViM is also really sketchy for energy management, with just 1 trapper and disease.

Frost_ · Apr 21, 2006, 12:59 AM // 00:59

dont need migrain mesmers in degen build at all. take them out add a word change a prot to sb/infuse and add a shutdown mes for their prot

manga · Apr 21, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Ok, I've modified it a bit, and added an SB/heal party monk
http://gwshack.us/84969

The ill mes is to slow the hell out of their heals and be more anti warrior, the E-surge mes is for the prot monk. I'm not going to remove my boon prots, I love them, plus they rock vs. interruptors and spikers. I may, however change them to normal boon prot energy management if ViM doesn't work.

Still open to suggestions and what not

Dancing Blade · Apr 21, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Not enough conditions to justify the use of vim imo, especially if the enemy team has tainted, also.

SaintGreg · Apr 21, 2006, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Several things:

Your monk's energy management is solely based on enemies having conditions. A single trapper is not nearly enough. Even if it was, martyr or RC would gg your monks. Many teams pack tainted, so the disease is far from guaranteed. IWAY is going to roll your boon prots with nature's renewal. Even if you are going to use condition pressure, just run a strong 3 monk backline.

Your illusion mesmer has no energy management, unless you count ethereal burden's 1/2 pip. He is basically doing nothing. If you are going to make him a degen hexer, give him mantra of persistence, power drain, drain enchantment, and then migraine and conjure. Dont just stuff his bar with illusion spells that he won't really be able to use.

nightrunner · Apr 21, 2006, 04:45 AM // 04:45

I would change the Shock Axe to a Virulence sword war.

lishi · Apr 21, 2006, 09:25 AM // 09:25

your new version of build dont have enough hex ,
your migrane on the monk gonna be removed in 1 second.

i suggest you to remove the illusion mesmer for a second surger.

plus if you wish to use humility you have better take out shame and add mantra of inscription.
with 12-13 inspiration you will be able to shut down the restore condition 100% of time. and drop domination to 14 its a big waste of skillpoint have 16 for a surger.

try to fit windborn speed somewhere.

since your ranger is spreading degen i suggest to drop markship for expertice , put it up at least to 13 so the poison arrow cost only 2 energy to shot(maybe you should go for apply poison)

your build also miss of interupts.

anyway dont expect it work everthing as planned ,

a good team will interupt humility making each use of restore condition a BIG heal , your hex will be removed very fast so your degen is going to lose strenght etc etc etc.

luilui · Apr 21, 2006, 10:45 AM // 10:45

ur disease/hex has many spammable spells which causes energy problem, i think he'll have problem getting the most out them. i would suggest bringing some more conditional skills like windborne or profane or interrupt, so he can focus on spamming tainted and one to two hexes.

i dont understand why have migraine with ur illusion mesmer and with no interrupts, for the degen? (there are better degen hexes) for slowing spells? (u dont have interrupts and u dont do spike dmg so slow healing wouldnt effect them that much, i'm not saying it's useless of course, but i dont think it worths an elite for that)

JR · Apr 21, 2006, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

since your ranger is spreading degen i suggest to drop markship for expertice , put it up at least to 13 so the poison arrow cost only 2 energy to shot(maybe you should go for apply poison)

Or just use Apply Poison, which is approximately seven thousand billion times better.

Hex Nexus · Apr 21, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

You don't run Aegis with a boon prot. Swap it for Guardian. I also agree its bad to base energy management off of "ViM!" alone.

manga · Apr 24, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Thank you all for the replies, I think i've come up with a strong build. Any build has things that will counter it, and I'm ok with that. I may need to change the booners to standard energy management, or even revert to the standard monk package.

For any who might want to use the final product, here it is http://gwshack.us/443b3, have fun, if you see any glaring flaws (other than the monks) please post them.

JiggyFly · Apr 25, 2006, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Personally I think would take out Shame and stick in Cry of Fustration, since nowadays Ranger spike and Blood spiek is fairly common. And it's always nice to be able to interupt that vital spell, or knock out a monks energy managment.

Vindexus · Apr 25, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Apply Poison instead of Poison Arrow and bring Spike Trap.

Distortion instead of Whirling or Storm Chaser.

Conjure Lightning is bad because of the recharge.

Is the energy on the Tainted Guy going to be good? I hear Soul Reaping and CC are good for that in tombs.

Migraine interupt mesmers are bad! Run a migraine mesmer, or an Surge/Burner. One is for degen, the other is for shutdown. A Migraine interupt build is basically a build for scrubs who can't interupt.

I also don't think you have enough conditions to justify ViM monks.

I'd put a monk in that last slot if you want any chance at holding.

lishi · Apr 25, 2006, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

Apply Poison instead of Poison Arrow and bring Spike Trap.

Distortion instead of Whirling or Storm Chaser.

Conjure Lightning is bad because of the recharge.

Is the energy on the Tainted Guy going to be good? I hear Soul Reaping and CC are good for that in tombs.

Migraine interupt mesmers are bad! Run a migraine mesmer, or an Surge/Burner. One is for degen, the other is for shutdown. A Migraine interupt build is basically a build for scrubs who can't interupt.

I also don't think you have enough conditions to justify ViM monks.

I'd put a monk in that last slot if you want any chance at holding.

on HA the migrane mesmer are used to interupt a healing monk(unless holding).

is pretty hard interupt 0.75 second spell cast.

Divineshadows · Apr 25, 2006, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

on HA the migrane mesmer are used to interupt a healing monk(unless holding).

is pretty hard interupt 0.75 second spell cast.

Do not argue with Vin on this one, when he says migraine interrupt mesmers are bad he is right. Here is some supporting evidence (I am sure there is more to it, but this is what I know so far):

Mesmer interrupts are inefficient by their nature in both energy and recharge when compared to ranger interrupts. Sure a single interrupt can complement a mesmer bar very well -- power drain for energy management, cry of frustration as anti-spike and nice utility skill, and power leak for shutdown. Leech signet and power spike are typically considered weak skills for PvP. My advice is to pick one based on your needs and you still have plenty of skills for your mesmer to actually do something.

I love being a monk in HA against a team with one or two of these migraine mesmers. 95% of them load their bar with interrupts and bind themselves to whomever they have migrained. This makes them extremely predictable which is a bad thing to be in any form of PvP. By just falling back it is so easy to take these mesmers completely out of position. Inform your offense of their mistake and you'll have that mesmer eating dirt in no time. Not only that, you can get these mesmers so far out of position at times that it is so easy to counter any attempts to rez them and you get to fight 7v8 for a long time. gg. This same strategy can work against opponent surge/burn mesmers, but I would say that over half of the players playing this build are smart enough not to fall for that trap.

Typically my HA teams run with only 2 to 4 hex removals (and not even 3 copies of holy veil like some teams/monks think is so necessary for HA). Two high-specced heal parties are usually enough to power through what most hex-based degen teams can throw at you.

lishi · Apr 25, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Do not argue with Vin on this one, when he says migraine interrupt mesmers are bad he is right. Here is some supporting evidence (I am sure there is more to it, but this is what I know so far):

Mesmer interrupts are inefficient by their nature in both energy and recharge when compared to ranger interrupts. Sure a single interrupt can complement a mesmer bar very well -- power drain for energy management, cry of frustration as anti-spike and nice utility skill, and power leak for shutdown. Leech signet and power spike are typically considered weak skills for PvP. My advice is to pick one based on your needs and you still have plenty of skills for your mesmer to actually do something.

I love being a monk in HA against a team with one or two of these migraine mesmers. 95% of them load their bar with interrupts and bind themselves to whomever they have migrained. This makes them extremely predictable which is a bad thing to be in any form of PvP. By just falling back it is so easy to take these mesmers completely out of position. Inform your offense of their mistake and you'll have that mesmer eating dirt in no time. Not only that, you can get these mesmers so far out of position at times that it is so easy to counter any attempts to rez them and you get to fight 7v8 for a long time. gg. This same strategy can work against opponent surge/burn mesmers, but I would say that over half of the players playing this build are smart enough not to fall for that trap.

Typically my HA teams run with only 2 to 4 hex removals (and not even 3 copies of holy veil like some teams/monks think is so necessary for HA). Two high-specced heal parties are usually enough to power through what most hex-based degen teams can throw at you.

still a migrane mesmer will be able to shut down a healing monk making still a decent degen. A ranger will be unable to do the same even if he have the bar full with interupt , he suffer from evade skill(or spell) wall etc etc.

sure a good use of holy veil will basicly ruin migrane reducing the usefullness but i will tell but still will be worth to take it.

CrispyCritter · Apr 25, 2006, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Although I agree that Migraine/interrupt mesmers are pretty bad, if you just have the mesmer spread Illusion hexes and then have a ranger land the interrupts, that can work. Ideally, I'd put Migraine, Arcane Conundrum, and Mantra of Persistence on your Migraine mesmer, as well as a couple energy management skills such as Power Drain and Drain Enchant.

Then, put at least Savage and Distracting on your ranger, and you'll find that you'll actually be able to interrupt people pretty well. Also, if you're going to run Signet of Humility, you'll probably want to run Mantra of Inscriptions as well. I would put this on your Surge/Burner; since he's already running Signet of Weariness, the faster recharge will be useful.