Curse

projectnavi · Mar 23, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

well, i will post the usual boon prot build that works well after the patch.

hope its gonna help those of you struggling to train your monk skills in TA/RA.

Protective Spirit (don't even start arguing that this is not needed)
Divine Boon
Contemplation of Purity (please don't argue about this eighter)
Mend Condition (ok, you can't target yourself, but its better than 5s recharge)
Reversal of Fortune
Energy Drain (or mantra of recall...try both, play with the one you like best)
Signet of Devotion (or guardian)
Inspired Hex

15 divine, 11 prot, 10 inspiration

this is by far the more versatile build you can get. the nerf on mend ail really kicks you in the nut, but you gotta learn to live with it. eighter take someone with draw conditions or then try to clear them with CoP. the only conditions you really need to remove is Cripple and Deep Wound (and dazed, but you won't see that too often until april 27th)

CoP is a total must have skill. had trouble with backfire in the past ? well those days are over. CoP and its removed before the mes can even cover it.

prot spirit is a must have skill as well, if you want the most versatile build. theres alot of fights where you won't be using it, but when you come in a fight where you need it, if you don't have it you're screwed. you won't be able to outheal a target getting spiked by a couple of eles, and even if you are able, you will be left with no energy for their next spike.

about the elite slot...i find energy drain more effective and versatile...just die once with Mantra of recall and you will understand what i mean. you will rez with barely enough energy to cast Mantra, and then you are left with 20 sec wait for mantra to die and get your energy. Oh yes, you can CoP it, but then you used 10 for mantra, 5 for CoP, and 5 to put boon on. so theres your 20 energy from Mantra, and you are still left with a 20 sec recharge and little energy.

i'm not saying mantra sucks, not at all. heck, WM was running mantra + distortion monks well before the patch. theres just less room for errors.

Of course, Edrain got a few draw backs of its own. draining an empty target is gonna suck bad. but you can learn to guess which target will have at least 8 energy for you to get your drain working.

whatever you chose, i strongly suggest having a 20% recharge weapon and the 20/20 chalice for inspiration.

well, hope this helps. good luck in the training.

Le Maudit · Mar 27, 2006, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by projectnavi

Protective Spirit (don't even start arguing that this is not needed)
Divine Boon
Contemplation of Purity (please don't argue about this eighter)
Mend Condition (ok, you can't target yourself, but its better than 5s recharge)
Reversal of Fortune
Energy Drain (or mantra of recall...try both, play with the one you like best)
Signet of Devotion (or guardian)
Inspired Hex

prot spirit is a must have skill as well, if you want the most versatile build. theres alot of fights where you won't be using it, but when you come in a fight where you need it, if you don't have it you're screwed. you won't be able to outheal a target getting spiked by a couple of eles, and even if you are able, you will be left with no energy for their next spike.

This one finds that Prot Spirit takes up too much energy to cast. In 8v8 situations, this one will bring it, as there is often another monk or greater defense built into the build, which allows for this energy spending. Stopping spikes aren't that hard, this one manages pretty good with Guardian+RoF.

Even though Anet nerfed it, this one still uses Mend Ailment. You honestly can't deal as much damage from conditions as this one can heal for.

Quote:

15 divine, 11 prot, 10 inspiration

16 DF is better. Attributes should be like this:

12+1+3 DF, 8+1 Prot, 10 Insp

Quote:

about the elite slot...i find energy drain more effective and versatile...just die once with Mantra of recall and you will understand what i mean. you will rez with barely enough energy to cast Mantra, and then you are left with 20 sec wait for mantra to die and get your energy. Oh yes, you can CoP it, but then you used 10 for mantra, 5 for CoP, and 5 to put boon on. so theres your 20 energy from Mantra, and you are still left with a 20 sec recharge and little energy.

If you're just going to CoP off MoR, why did you cast Boon?

Quote:

i'm not saying mantra sucks, not at all. heck, WM was running mantra + distortion monks well before the patch. theres just less room for errors.

In 4v4, you'll be hit some much that Distortion will drain you. Now, with it requiring 8+ in Illusion to make it only -2 energy per hit, you really don't want to be carrying it. Perhaps for 8v8 it'll work, but it won't help when you have only 3 pips of energy regen and every spell costs +2 energy.

Quote:

whatever you chose, i strongly suggest having a 20% recharge weapon and the 20/20 chalice for inspiration.

If you bring MoR, you don't need the 20/20 chalice for inspiration. Most Boon Prots bring the +45 life while enchanted focus, since they are always enchanted

wheel · Mar 27, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Maudit

16 DF is better. Attributes should be like this:

12+1+3 DF, 8+1 Prot, 10 Insp

Almost, but not quite. Since Energy Drain does not have a breakpoint at 10 Inspiration, you should have

16 DF
10 Prot
9 Insp

Le Maudit · Mar 27, 2006, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

Almost, but not quite. Since Energy Drain does not have a breakpoint at 10 Inspiration, you should have

16 DF
10 Prot
9 Insp

Ah. You're right, this one had forgotten about that. For an MoR, 10 Insp is what this one uses, as you get 13 net energy at 10 Insp, and 6 net from Inspired Hex.

Blow Up Doll · Apr 17, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Boon prot with MoR or OoB is the way forwards - lvl16 div fav is the best for a boon prot i think.

A good combo (Especially with 16 in prot) is Sheilding hands along with prot spirit - it only lasts a very short time but the target will not take any damage unless they have a huge amount of life.

Monk is the hardest character to play especially in Ca but a good monk is what makes the difference.

While personally i am a Boon man bonding does work well if you prefer it.

jules · Apr 18, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

After the OoB nerf I had no choice but to start playing with MoR. It's a little less dummy proof, but coupled with COP it works really well. If you die and get ressed cast MoR straightaway followed by CoP. You may have to switch to a different weapon set to get enough energy but this works well if you need energy fast.

qwe4rty · Apr 18, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Actually, I think Mesmers and Monk both have it equally bad, (with the occasional nec thrown in).

Many of the 'gimmick' TA builds will go for monks first, yet some of the more balanced ones will do a split. I find when I monk, its harder to deal with a split then all on one person. In this case, I would say the mesmer is worse off, because he doesn't really have a choice about whose going to be healed.

projectnavi · Apr 21, 2006, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

Almost, but not quite. Since Energy Drain does not have a breakpoint at 10 Inspiration, you should have

16 DF
10 Prot
9 Insp

well, i like the extra second on my prot spirit more than +3 on my boon. and if i want that +3 on boon, then i will switch to the +1 divine favor green (Soulstone?) and get it there. but yeah, 16 does make sense.

18s + 20% enchant is a pretty long prot spirit.

and about the person saying that this is too energy expensive...well the 12 energy is still alot better than trying to out heal a spike or to protect you when you are DPed.

jummeth · Apr 23, 2006, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwe4rty

Actually, I think Mesmers and Monk both have it equally bad, (with the occasional nec thrown in).

Many of the 'gimmick' TA builds will go for monks first, yet some of the more balanced ones will do a split. I find when I monk, its harder to deal with a split then all on one person. In this case, I would say the mesmer is worse off, because he doesn't really have a choice about whose going to be healed.

QFT

If I run my necro degen, I normally target the mesmer first, let the melees occupy the monk. The mesmer can put serious hurt to almost all classes. So just pile on the hexes. Monks tend to CoP away the hexes too fast, spiking is better for monks.

Also, as a monk, you are doing your job if you are surviving against 2 warriors pounding you. If its 1 war chasing you around you can always afford to stop to spike heal every now and again.
If they have 2 ppl (heck even 3 on you) your team members will bring serious hurt to the rest of their team. If they can't then thats not really your fault.

You will notice that most times monks are their to serve as a distraction for the mesmer/necro to pile on hexes.

Blow Up Doll · Apr 23, 2006, 01:44 PM // 13:44

I agree with jummeth - i play boon prot in teams and randoms often - put the hexes on me i just cast RoF then CoP and my MoR and Boon get rid of all the hexes and give me energy - i run inspired and holy veil also but this can only take off two hexes from allies whereas CoP can take off up to 6 from me.
Migrane mesmers are not a problem at all - a warrior on me is annoying but usually not a problem - a warrior and a ranger or ele on me while a mes or nec is hexing my team to pieces is a major problem...

makosi · Apr 23, 2006, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Hammer warriors are a nightmare with this build because of the possiblity of 4 second KD. I know its depressing being targetted all the time in RA/TA as a monk but at least you're doing the hardest job and not a wamo with mendingzomg.

Iraqalypse Now · Apr 24, 2006, 12:37 AM // 00:37

if you luck out with warrior hate of some sort, the enemy warrior shouldn't be able to backbreaker you - even a r/mes with blackout resetting the hammer war's adren should be enough.

Oh, and prot spirit is the reason you can live against hammer warriors comboing you. That and a RoF between the knockdowns in the chain.

jummeth · Apr 24, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Sympathetic Visage solves a lot of problems then

dansamy · Apr 24, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

If you run a boon prot build, which is probably the most versatile and durable monk build for arena, you should be the hardest person on your team to kill. Learning to kite, learning how to precast holy veil and drop it quickly to remove key hexes, learning how to utilize energy management.. (OoB > MoR imo... but that's a different thread.) All adds up to a very very steep learning curve when playing monk for the first time.

Yes, but you'll be a better player if you overcome that steep learning curve. I also think that other builds that look deceptively simple to play should be "required reading" for new PvP players. Everyone should learn to properly play a boon monk and a paladin.* They both teach valuable lessons about knowing the strengths/weaknesses of your character.

*note:properly

Blow Up Doll · Apr 24, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

I was playing Ta last night with a few mates and we just took two hammer warriors with me and some other random monk they picked up. We weren't even using vent/ts and the other monk was just using a prebuild without a clue what to do. We went about 20 rounds in Ta easily before losing to a very good korean hexes and ranger team. Unless you can run a very good complex build like the Koreans did - it is generally much better to stick to a simple 2 warrior 2 monk build - the warriors are screwed without good monks but if you all play well most of the groups in Ta will fall in one or two minutes...

sno · Apr 24, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blow Up Doll

I was playing Ta last night with power (aka of my rangers) and we just took him and a guildie of his called Debbie. They were both on hamemr warriors with me and some other random monk they picked up. We weren't even using vent/ts and the other monk was just using a prebuild without a clue what to do. We went about 20 rounds in Ta easily before losing to a very good korean hexes and ranger team. Unless you can run a very good complex build like the Koreans did - it is generally much better to stick to a simple 2 warrior 2 monk build - the warriors are screwed without good monks but if you all play well most of the groups in Ta will fall in one or two minutes...

I find that if you have a good balanced team, the monk will usually have the easiest job on the whole team. With a good blind/ward-bot, and good shutdown, the other team will be dealing next to no damage, and the monk will not have to worry too much about energy management, as he won't need to cast much. If I was training a boon prot I'd do it with a balanced build, since that's how he should be fighting anyways, whether or not he's just learning.

How good a monk is depends greatly on his experience, being able to recognize spike targets, and what hex you have on you without mousing over it, and knowing exactly what to do to each hex you have on you. It takes quite a bit of experience to know that you should immediately CoP shame, but NOT diversion, and they have quite similar icons. There are a ton of little minor things like that, that you can only find out by playing. A 2 monk team in my opinion would be counter-productive to his learning experience.

Blow Up Doll · Apr 25, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

A 2 monk team in my opinion would be counter-productive to his learning experience.

The point wasn't learning - we were just doing a run of Ta for fun and just added the first monk that he saw in Ta.