Curse

ions · Apr 28, 2006, 05:36 AM // 05:36

In RA isn't Frenzy and Superior Sword/Axe rune risky?

I find a very very balanced build is the best for RA. so I try to maximize my HP.

Is there that much difference between 14 and 16? How many more critical hits will you get?

Thanks

Aelfgard · Apr 28, 2006, 05:45 AM // 05:45

You should always run at 16 weapon mastery. As far as attack speed stances on a warrior frenzy is the only good one. Flurry is crap reducing damage, Tigers fury disables your non-attack skills and costs too much energy, and IWAY is too conditional to be useful. All that leaves is frenzy.

wheel · Apr 28, 2006, 06:14 AM // 06:14

There's Tiger Stance, now, so you have at least an alternative to Frenzy. I still prefer Frenzy, however.

- Tiger Stance (Strength)
For 5...9...10 seconds, you attack 33% faster. Tiger Stance ends if any of your attacks fail to hit.
Energy:5 Cast:0 Recharge:20

nebuchanezzar · Apr 28, 2006, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Being in RA Frenzy may not be your best choice until you learn how to cancel it quickly. Use Rush and keep it up at first since Frenzy only really helps when the target isn't running.
16 in your Weapon of Choice. 15 if your wearing your HoD helm is acceptable.

Once you put Frenzy on your bar AND learn to use it well....I doubt it will ever again leave your bar.

denshuu · Apr 28, 2006, 09:31 AM // 09:31

In RAs, you'd actually probably be better off using Tiger's Fury. The reason is that, while using Frenzy, there are really only two main possibilities that you're going to run into in the random arenas, as opposed to team arenas, GvG, and HA. One is that you'll be attacked, and you'll take heavy damage. The second is that you'll be attacked and have to cancel it with another stance, thus losing your speed buff.

The reason why Frenzy is used in GvG and HA is because people generally don't attack warriors. When you're in the RAs, that's not the case - There's typically going to be at least one person on the opposing team who's going to target you (And, chances are, it's going to be another warrior). No need to bother with switching between stances and spending the majority of the battle swinging 33% slower than you have to.

Vindexus · Apr 28, 2006, 10:47 AM // 10:47

It's risky, but if you can pull Frenzy off it's very worth it. 16 weapon mastery is a definite yes.

dawnrain · Apr 28, 2006, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Frenzy is fine for RA. Just insure you have a 2nd stance (I like Rush) ready to switch to if you start taking significant damage.

Just because it's RA doesn't mean you no longer act for the benefit of your Team. The more stuff that attacks you as a warrior, the prof with the highest base Armor Level, the better for your team. So if you have to cancel your Increase Attack Speed because you're being attacked, it might be an individual detriment but on average it's a team benefit that you're being attacked.

Arkantos · Apr 28, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Frenzy+16 wep mastery isn't too risky for RA. Push in healing signet though and you may have a bit of a problem

rii · Apr 28, 2006, 02:57 PM // 14:57

IAS is probably the most valuable tool a warrior has. For activating it, Frenzy is the best tool for endurance and recharge. If you come under fire, console yourself with a cancel stance and 100AL vs. physical.

Byron · Apr 28, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

First off, you can more than offset the -75 health rune with a superior vigor and a +30 health shield or focus.

But my concern is judging anything's value based on RA. I spend enough time there to know that there are tricks that don't work anywhere else (eg dark aura/touch necro), and there are fundamental skills that are simply underappreciated (eg frenzy, bull's strike, healing signet on a warrior). It's great to test builds, practice a new type of build, warm up for HA/GvG, or just have fun with some downtime. But to evaluate the usefulness of anything based solely on RA is an error, IMO.

Entropius · Apr 28, 2006, 04:10 PM // 16:10

I don't think he's expecting the answer to apply to HA/GvG; we all know frenzy is very useful there.

Ristaron · Apr 28, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

It is risky in RA because you have a lot of inexperienced (or otherwise tactless) playes in there who attack warriors first (or otherwise before a soft target that can really do their team damage).

denshuu · Apr 28, 2006, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

It is risky in RA because you have a lot of inexperienced (or otherwise tactless) playes in there who attack warriors first (or otherwise before a soft target that can really do their team damage).

Exactly. Operating under the assumption that you will probably be attacked, it's best to bring a speed buff that's going to be able to handle that kind of pressure. If you bring Frenzy, you'd might as well just not bring a speed buff at all since you're almost never going to have it on. Bring Tiger's Fury with 9 in Beast Mastery and you have a constant 33% increase in attack speed, which more thean offsets the sacrifices in Strength.

glountz · Apr 29, 2006, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Bring Frenzy and Rush in RA.
In 8v8, warrs are rarely targeted (except for a spike), so you can have frenzy up all the time without much problems. And so without learning.
In RA/TA it's different, many nasty things await for the unwarned frenzied warrior: Empathy, Spiteful spirit, or, nastier, Ineptitude or Obsidian flame.
So what? By bringing frenzy in such areas where such warrior hate skills are heavily used, you will learn very quickly to be aware of what is going on the battlefield...
You will learn to watch constantly your status screen.
You will learn to switch efficiently from frenzy to rush.
You will learn to be constantly aware of who is the target of this lightning orb, because if it is you, you're dead.
You will learn finally not to do basic errors, like using Healing signet while under Frenzy.

On having 16 or not in a weapon, well, in 8v8 it's necessary. You are devoted to only one purpose: damage.
In 4v4 it's a little different. You may bring support skills which require wider attribute point distribution.
So you may have... only 15.

Anyway, good PvP!

Zui · Apr 29, 2006, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Even though it's RA, frenzy + rush or sprint is still preferable.

Tiger stance is also viable now, but honeslty frenzy+rush works just fine, as you'll be wanting that movment speed boost, and tigers stance has a longer recharge, and ends if you fail to hit. Making it quite bad in some very common situations in RA, IW mesmers for example.

As for tigers fury, IMO it's a waste of a secondary, especialy since ranger doesn't offer a ton for warriors. Again frenzy works just fine, and doesn't requrie you to dump anything into another attribute, have the period where your res sig/support skills are disabled or have the energy constraints* that you would with tigers fury.

Note(*): The energy cost for frenzy is recovered in 7.5 seconds at 2 pips of regen. The energy cost for tigers fury is recovered in 15 seconds at 2 pips of regen, making constant use of this skill only viable if you're using a zealous weapon.

glountz · Apr 29, 2006, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

The energy cost for tigers fury is recovered in 15 seconds at 2 pips of regen, making constant use of this skill only viable if you're using a zealous weapon.

And yet, zealous effectiveness is greatly reduced by kiting factor and warrior hate.

denshuu · Apr 29, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

By bringing frenzy in such areas where such warrior hate skills are heavily used, you will learn very quickly to be aware of what is going on the battlefield

Assuming he's already gained enough skill as a player to recognize the skills in play on the battlefield in RAs and TAs, he's only crippling himself by wasting a skill on his bar with something he will use maybe once, for a few brief seconds, in large intervals. Using frenzy for this purpose is a bit like boxing with weights on - Great for training, but highly impractical in a match.

Demon Rebel · Apr 29, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

In RA/TA it's different, many nasty things await for the unwarned frenzied warrior: Empathy, Spiteful spirit, or, nastier, Ineptitude or Obsidian flame.
So what? By bringing frenzy in such areas where such warrior hate skills are heavily used, you will learn very quickly to be aware of what is going on the battlefield...
You will learn to watch constantly your status screen.
You will learn to switch efficiently from frenzy to rush.
You will learn to be constantly aware of who is the target of this lightning orb, because if it is you, you're dead.
You will learn finally not to do basic errors, like using Healing signet while under Frenzy.

I love playing a tank... but since I am a noob in PvP and just learning the Mesmer I love hitting a frenzied warrior with two things - ineptitude + empathy...142 dmg x2 + empathy as a cover hex and more damage.

Blind and empathy still deals damage and a frenzied tank who doesn't switch stances doesn't last long.

However I need to gain some experience playing in the higher lvl arenas - with all professions.

Demon

Byron · Apr 29, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Frenzy/rush is great practice for those who want to get involved in GvG, since it is standard equipment there.

Warriors are probably the second most common targets in GvG second to mesmers, because they are still very effective without using skills. You can expire a monk or mesmer's usefulness with e-denial, hex hate, or KD. E-denying or KDing a warrior doesn't make much sense; blind/weakness stacks, snares, and hexes are effective but can be removed. Warriors and mesmers are the only professions that will react effectively to damage, since they have very little self-protection to speak of. You can blackout, e-deny, or gale a monk or mesmer (and then they are 0% effective), but you can't stop warrior pressure for sure until you kill it, or at least force a retreat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

As for tigers fury, IMO it's a waste of a secondary, especialy since ranger doesn't offer a ton for warriors.

Very much agree. Not only does it then mean no self-protection (ie, healing signet), it also means no energy focus to speak of. Even if you wear all glads, Tiger's Fury will be 1/3 of your energy for a stance lasting 1 second longer than frenzy. Zealous could somewhat offset that, assuming all your attacks hit. I would take TF only on an axe warrior, who has the capability of running a solid bar with all adrenal skills, and has a fast attack rate. Using TF also means that one of my favorite skills, Bull's strike, becomes impractical.

denshuu · Apr 29, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

...Now you make it sound like RA/TA is the main event, not GvG.

I'm not sure what you mean by "main event," but this topic isn't about GvG. It's about RAs.