Curse

moriz · May 01, 2006, 07:28 PM // 19:28

http://gwshack.us/a2dff

yep, it's a build that can pressure and spike at the same time. the spike damage is just over 600, which is enough to drop someone easily. in a split situation, the spike averages just over 480ish. it's not a world-beater: it can't outspike a spike team, and can't outpressure a pressure team, but it can do both with some success.

the OoP monk carries two superior runes to lessen the health loss from the two saccing spells. it should also be a PVE character with a minor protection rune armor switch in case it comes under attack. it's a risk, but it's a calculated risk that i have to take, or else the rest of the build will become compromised.

credit goes to JR- for noticing the weak condition removals in the original version.

Farin · May 01, 2006, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Ok I assume your ele is running flags. I don't think that's gonna cause much pressure, It's pretty much Ranger spike with a warrior. Your 2 monk backline is very very weak. You've nothing to help your monks with your other characters except themselves, and the who will be running flags. I can see them being totally destoyed by the average team with 2 warriors and some water snares. Now, If they're under pressure your monks won't be able to afford OoP and the heals.

Even though hexes aren't supposed to be common, I'm pretty sure we're gonna see more and more hexes, and 2 inspired hexes won't cut it.

What I would do with that is switch the warrior to axe for more spike potential, If you want charge still I would switch the Punishing Shot ranger to a "Charge!" "Shields Up!" Ranger, dropping Punishing of Course and the second fav, I don't think you'll need it.

Now that you have a faster way to apply deep wound with your warrior, I would switch your Me/Mo to a Me/N with Orders Instead of PP, revealed hex instead of Shatter Delusions and a res sig instead of Resurrect. This way you could get some pressure off your monks, you can still keep the Orders on the Monk for a backup oop, but I'm not a big fan of orders on a 2 monk backline. If you still feel like you need a hard res you can put it on one of the rangers without much a problem

Hope that helps.

Byron · May 02, 2006, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Agree with razoo, disagree with Osirod. I'm a big fan of combined spikes, and I think the idea you're rolling with is solid, but it needs some fine-tuning to be effective.

Some things I noticed on first lookover:
Condition removal is redundant, IMO. You've got martyr, draw, and 2 mend conditions. Personally, I'd drop draw on the ele and slap on enervating charge to cover blindness with weakness.
Dual shot and crippling shot on one ranger is pretty unrealistic, even with expertise maxed. I think you need to pick one or the other, either full spike or full crippling.
The warrior has both charge and sprint, which isn't something I think a one-warrior build can afford, especially without an energy focus. First off, it's sword, which in general limits spiking capability. The three attacks you have are solid: bull's, sever, gash. Final thrust is something I wouldn't recommend on a pressure warrior, however, as its uses will be few and far between. Sub final out for a heal sig, and sub out sprint for rush IMO (if you still want to use sword).
The mesmer seems a little overwhelmed. I like the combo of martyr and fast cast. Beyond that, I'm not sure what to say.
OOP on a monk is a good idea, and I've seen it done on bonders several times. But, to count on this monk to heal as well probably isn't a good idea.

If you want to run a combined spike, consider a [Te] type build:
1 axe
1 hammer
-->these warriors run their own adn spike
2 ranger spikers
--->who run their own spike
1 blackout/gale mes
-->keeps one monk down
1 OOP/smite monk (with judge's insight on the rangers)
2 boon/prots

JR · May 02, 2006, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Some things I noticed on first lookover:
Condition removal is redundant, IMO. You've got martyr, draw, and 2 mend conditions. Personally, I'd drop draw on the ele and slap on enervating charge to cover blindness with weakness.

Just hope to god they don't shut down your Martyr guy at all. In a build with four characters that rely on being clean of blind, I really don't think maxing out on condition removal is a bad idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Dual shot and crippling shot on one ranger is pretty unrealistic, even with expertise maxed. I think you need to pick one or the other, either full spike or full crippling.

You would not be actively crip-shotting. That is purely there to snare a target when you need to, against a mobile split, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

The warrior has both charge and sprint, which isn't something I think a one-warrior build can afford, especially without an energy focus.

As with Crippling Shot, "Charge!" would not be used constantly. It is there for mobility, something spike can be fairly weak at. In a multiple Warrior build it would be used very regularly, as it benefits other Warriors more.

I do agree about the mesmer though, it seems a little over-burdened. I think it would be almost critical to drop Cry for Drain Enchantment, to give this guy a hand energy-wise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

If you want to run a combined spike, consider a [Te] type build:
1 axe
1 hammer
-->these warriors run their own adn spike
2 ranger spikers
--->who run their own spike
1 blackout/gale mes
-->keeps one monk down
1 OOP/smite monk (with judge's insight on the rangers)
2 boon/prots

Out of curiosity, would they be putting JI on the rangers, and therefore making orders useless to them?

moriz · May 02, 2006, 07:46 PM // 19:46

my original intention with the mesmer is to make it do e-denial as well as the deep wound spike. problem is, it can only drain about 20-25ish energy. at that rate, the only thing it can shutdown is a ranger. everyone else will just laugh at you and switch to a higher energy weapon.

one idea is to convert the second cripshot ranger into an e-drain ranger:

exp: 10+1+3
marks: 11+1
dom: 10
oath shot {e}
dual shot
savage shot
debilitating shot
mantra of signets
signet of weariness
whirling defense/dodge/blackout
rez sig

doing so, and making the mesmer carry a few e-drain spells will make e-denial viable in this build. well, at least, i hope. however, that will greatly reduce the already pitiful splitting ability of this build even further.

Byron · May 03, 2006, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

You would not be actively crip-shotting. That is purely there to snare a target when you need to, against a mobile split, etc.

Granted. 2 cripple shots also opens up the very real possibility of redundant condition spread. IMO, inflexible. Keeping poison on, spirits up, snaring targets, and spiking with dual shot...seems like too much.

Quote:

Out of curiosity, would they be putting JI on the rangers, and therefore making orders useless to them?

I actually brought that up in obs mode. However, it seems that JI is the plan A, OoP the plan B for the rangers. The spikers, as I understand, carried penetrating for JI spikes, Dual shot for OoP spikes. An issue of flexibility arises if the enemy is packing shatter enchant or some such enchantment punishment. JI works well on warriors too...very flexible. Often though, its easier to spam pain and get a bal's aura on a warrior. Let me say though, RTW + Hornbow + JI + 5/1 vamp + penetrating attack = GG.

JR · May 03, 2006, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Let me say though, RTW + Hornbow + JI + 5/1 vamp + penetrating attack = GG.

Indeed. Back in FnlD we ran a mixed spike in Tombs with JI/Penetrating Attack. The guy playing ranger said he scored crits of around 141.

galkraft · May 11, 2006, 08:22 AM // 08:22

If crippling is not constant, why not go with Pin Down? Its only drawback would be evadable/blockable.

moriz · May 11, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

you'll never know when you'll need a whole bunch of crippling in a very short timeframe. crippling shot allows you to do that.

my original idea was to have crippling on more-or-less constantly on a target or two. with two cripshots, it allows me to do that without blowing through energy too quickly.