Curse

rii · Jan 19, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Rend Enchantments, or plague touch as a last ditch. How many spare skills do warriors have? Frenzy/sprint/ressig/3damage skills (maybe 4).. thats two left.

Orders on warriors is a waste of time. Get a support necro in team, and in ca dont even go there. Not only does it make a significant difference against casting time and duration, it also drops massively when theres a whole possibilty your the only person on your team that can benefit.

JR: ca isnt really pvp. Its more along the lines of an advanced bot match, i think your glorifying it a bit too much. Also, along the same lines, there very few 'good' teams that form in ca. And they deserve '' around their name as well, even then. Tanking isnt as easy as it was around 3 months ago but with some fairly simple tactics its still doable.

[no you may not]

The Real Roy Keane · Jan 19, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

For a start you should be using a sup rune in your weapon mastery.In fact,you're usually better off with axes in CA unless you're running a specific conditions build.If you're running a W/N,you'd do well to bring plague touch since blind and crippled,which effectively shut a warrior down,are commonplace.If you switched to curses from blood,you could take weaken armour and barbs for uber l33t dmg per hit..though while these abilities are nice in theory,the long cast times and considerable energy costs make them a bit cumbersome to run.If i was to build a W/N,it would look like this:
Eviserate{e}
Executioners strike
Axe rake
Wild Blow
Frenzy
Sprint
Plague Touch
Rez
16 axe,13 strength
If you want to stick with swords,I'd say

Sever
Gash
Galrath
Final
Plague touch
Grenth's Balance{e}
Sprint
Rez
16 sword,13 strength
No IAS,so it's not a big damager,but grenth's keeps you in the game and plague touch keeps you hitting freely.Some prefer to put a few points in death and take Virulence,but without a Tainted Necro on your team the disease can end up working against you.In fact,I'd say w/n isn't the best of class combos..but I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

JR · Jan 19, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

JR: ca isnt really pvp. Its more along the lines of an advanced bot match, i think your glorifying it a bit too much. Also, along the same lines, there very few 'good' teams that form in ca. And they deserve '' around their name as well, even then. Tanking isnt as easy as it was around 3 months ago but with some fairly simple tactics its still doable.

There is an annoying mentality surrounding Arena builds. Sort of "It's only being used against scrubs so it doesn't matter if I run trash". I don't like it. When I monk in arena (which is less and less frequent of an occurance), I run a good monk build, and I play well. I run the same build that I normally use in GvG, infact. So when I land in a team with warriors that can't actually kill anything, or some bizzare arena gimmick like ranger touchers, it's annoying. It actually leads to me leaving groups a lot. It is pretty depressing dragging terrible players through arena, letting them think their builds are oh so awesome. When I land in a group with a decent gale axe warrior, a decent air ele, and a decent ranger or something... we can go forever, flawless after flawless.

But /rant over.

rii · Jan 19, 2006, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

There is an annoying mentality surrounding Arena builds. Sort of "It's only being used against scrubs so it doesn't matter if I run trash". I don't like it. When I monk in arena (which is less and less frequent of an occurance), I run a good monk build, and I play well. I run the same build that I normally use in GvG, infact. So when I land in a team with warriors that can't actually kill anything, or some bizzare arena gimmick like ranger touchers, it's annoying. It actually leads to me leaving groups a lot. It is pretty depressing dragging terrible players through arena, letting them think their builds are oh so awesome. When I land in a group with a decent gale axe warrior, a decent air ele, and a decent ranger or something... we can go forever, flawless after flawless.

But /rant over.

I see your point, but at some stage I want to run stupid builds and joke around, lit, try and have fun... frankly, this game is very... mathematical, and everywhere else but ca i run whatever is most effective to the team im in. As of late, thats been gale evis rawr etc. Id also like to defend the ranger toucher, which ive won countless 4v1's with... and no, it wasnt griefing. And perhaps those kind of experiences against your irritated-monking gives me the different perspective on ca than you.

And what, does the string of flawless do it for you

? Frankly, when youve seen what ive seen in ca flawless doesnt say anything or mean anything (just slightly more faction). I think your being a little harsh on 'gimmick' builds and the casual attitude of ca. For a month, I ran the following builds:

Warrior/Monk Strength: 12+2, Axe: 12+3+1
Skills: Frenzy, Sprint, Res Sig

Mesmer/Monk Fast Casting: 12+1, Domination: 12+3+1
Skills, Diversion (before the mod- 5s recharge), Restore Life, Res Sig

And i got the exact same win/loss ratio for an ENTIRE MONTH. Somehow, that drained all level of competition out of the place.

And when i tank, like with something like aotl (not that build though) i also manage to heal my teammates, then tank if something goes wrong. Then, after say, three minutes of tanking, ill tell them to bring enchantment removal and leave. Maybe next time, the mesmer there will bring shatter and ftw!... you know.... take it a bit less seriously

JR · Jan 19, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

For a month, I ran the following builds:
Warrior/Monk Strength: 12+2, Axe: 12+3+1
Skills: Frenzy, Sprint, Res Sig

That is actually an improvement on most arena warriors, lol.

And I do see your point, that post was just a mini-rant.

But ranger touchers do suck

rii · Jan 19, 2006, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Hell no, when i get my computer back ill frap a video of me owning the hell out of some people.... if i can be arsed.

Why exactly do they suck? decent damage for ca, self heal, dodge, speed buff, condition removal/enchant removal, res....= lolzzzzzz

EDIT: so put my build back in... and put /sarcasm off at the end if you want.. it appears my ca playstyle kicks butt no?

glountz · Jan 19, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56

My turn!
My Death Knight:
Sword 12+1+3
Death 12
Strenght 4+1

Skills:
Res signet, Consume corpse/Soul Feast, Virulence [E], Plague Touch/Savage Slash, Harmstring, Wild blow, Galrath, Final thrust.

Variations:
To survive, you need to kill to heal you with Consume corpse or Soul Feast (Soul feast for heal but low energy management, Consume corpse for both heal and energy management but random dangerous and funny teleports).
Plague Touch if you want to handle painful conditions (blindness, cripple), Savage slash if you want to offense (if you choose savage slash energy become a big issue, prefer then to combo it with consume corpse).

How to play:
Harmstring on a foe then immediately followed by Virulence. Then chase him to death.

Have fun!

Chase the Sky · Jan 19, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

There is a ton of good info in this thread... Unfortunately it is surrounded by so much turd that any new person here might not be able to get a strait story without also getting hepatitis C.

Let me just summarize a few key points (already mostly made by JR and a few others)

1) Swords are bad idea in PvP. They specialize in doing low damage and spreading conditions. You can disagree with me all you want. But I can have three sword warriors on me and I don’t break a sweat. In fact, if there are three sword warriors on me I normally go and take a bathroom break or make a sandwich and let them wail on me. As a prot/boon monk the only warrior that really scares me is a hammer warrior necro with plague touch, a hammer warrior ele with gale, or a really, really, really good axe warrior with either of the previous two secondary classes skill set ups. I laugh at sword warriors. If the other team brings sword warriors to the match they automatically lose.
2) Spreading conditions in 4v4 is a bad idea. If the monk on the other team is playing a halfway decent prot/boon build they are going to have mend aliment. As a prot/boon monk it actually makes my job easier if everyone has conditions on them, especially if they have tons of conditions on them. I’ve thrown heals that heal for 300+ for a mere 7 energy. Sure you might breeze through a bunch of matches with you nifty conditions-spreading build, but as soon as you run into a prot/boon monk that has 3 other team mates that can follow a target your streak ends. Of course, it sucks if my warrior is blinded and/or crippled but all the other conditions in the game just make me heal better.

Too many people on this forum don’t take TA as seriously as they should. You can get 10 wins pretty most of the time and I think people quit there because of lack of competition. Or they will get their 10 wins- go against a real team, get pwned, and then say to themselves “Well… we got 10 so we are pretty damn awesome even if we did just lose.” You are wrong. Your build and your ability doesn’t win against other organized teams. Keep practicing.

You should never be satisfied with your TA exploits until you reach triple digits. That proves that your build is solid, your players are great, and you have the endurance to play with the best.

TA is the best place to build your individual player skills and to tweak the core players of your guild into hardened GW machines. There is nowhere to hide in TA- unlike the 8v8 matches where inferior players can easily hide behind the skill of others. It always amazes me when I guest with guilds that spend all their time trying to play GvG when they haven’t mastered the 4v4 arena. They don’t do very well in the ladder and they can never figure out why.

holden · Jan 19, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

i cant really disagree with any of that. you have a valid point with sword warriors for sure. they just can't do enough damage to scare me when im a monk. if im bleeding or crippled it's not for long. and deep wound? wow. if an axe or hammer warrior use a combo that puts deep wound on you that might be the end. cause they do so much damage. eviscerate/executioners/penetrating blow is just nasty.
sever/gash/final thrust. yawn.

JR · Jan 19, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase the Sky

1) Swords are bad idea in PvP. They specialize in doing low damage and spreading conditions. You can disagree with me all you want. But I can have three sword warriors on me and I don’t break a sweat. In fact, if there are three sword warriors on me I normally go and take a bathroom break or make a sandwich and let them wail on me. As a prot/boon monk the only warrior that really scares me is a hammer warrior necro with plague touch, a hammer warrior ele with gale, or a really, really, really good axe warrior with either of the previous two secondary classes skill set ups. I laugh at sword warriors. If the other team brings sword warriors to the match they automatically lose.

Hmmm. Not sure I agree.

If I were running a GvG build with one warrior, it is going to be axe, maybe hammer. If I run a GvG build with two, the second is going to be Sword. Why? Charge. Sword has one advanage over the other weapons, in that it doesn't require an elite to do decent damage. Pure/Galrath/Final or Sever/Gash/Galrath/Final are both pretty nasty. The problem is that most sword warriors in arena are pretty bad, and as I mentioned earlier most of them seem to spec very low in swordsmanship. Sword basicly seems to be the weapon that most people new to warrior will try first, so axe/hammer warriors tend to have slightly more experience. That does not mean that swords can't be usefull though.

A good axe or hammer warrior definately worries me slightly more on monk more than a good sword warrior, but that is discounting the utility that sword warriors can offer with a free elite slot. Final Thrust is almost good enough to be an elite, but its not, and that is a definate plus for swords. And charge in a warrior heavy build is just godly.

glountz · Jan 20, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

You're true, Chase, the counter of the sword warrior is the Prot monk. As well as the counter of the fragility build is the prot monk.
THe prot monk is the counter of any conditions spreading build.
You play a prot monk, so you own any sword warrior/fragility mesmer/conditionner ranger.
You're not here (or you're heal monk), and the sword warrior severely pain you in the...
Any build has its counter. The fact that you're specialized in countering conds doesn't make the sword warrior useless.
Especially if you are yourself countered by backfire-diversion-migraine-wither-malaise-energy surge-energy burn-e-denial etc... or worst a diversion shot on your blessed signet or mend ailment while the sword warrior conds you.
Generally in addition a good virulence build is not solo, to max effect you use fevered dreams with another character. Unless martyr is your elite, even as a prot monk you will have trouble, I can swear you.

Chase the Sky · Jan 20, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

You're true, Chase, the counter of the sword warrior is the Prot monk. As well as the counter of the fragility build is the prot monk.
THe prot monk is the counter of any conditions spreading build.
You play a prot monk, so you own any sword warrior/fragility mesmer/conditionner ranger.
You're not here (or you're heal monk), and the sword warrior severely pain you in the...
Any build has its counter. The fact that you're specialized in countering conds doesn't make the sword warrior useless.
Especially if you are yourself countered by backfire-diversion-migraine-wither-malaise-energy surge-energy burn-e-denial etc... or worst a diversion shot on your blessed signet or mend ailment while the sword warrior conds you.
Generally in addition a good virulence build is not solo, to max effect you use fevered dreams with another character. Unless martyr is your elite, even as a prot monk you will have trouble, I can swear you.

I don’t think you really see my point.

Builds do have their counters but you want to design your build so that it has a smaller amount of things that can counter it. Yes Prot/boon can be countered by tons of hexes- so can heal monks or strait prot monks. Prot/boon monks are safer against hexes then any other monk build because of CoP. Most hexers have problems sticking hexes on a prot/boon monk because boon+CoP is such an efficient way to get rid of hexes.

Sword warriors have way too many things that counter it in a 4v4 build. They just don’t do enough damage and can be defeated outright by a prot/boon monk. Who cares about heal monks? They easily break under any pressure applied by hexes, warrior hits, conditions, and interrupts. Heals take forever to cast and most of them can’t be cast on the monk himself/herself. Prot/boon’s are what you are going to have to worry about- they have spells that cast super fast, defend against attacks, heal anyone in their party, are better defended against hexes, can get rid of conditions, AND have amazing energy management. Heal monks can be defeated no matter what warrior weapon you use. The only warriors that are going to stand a chance of cutting through the prot/boon defenses are axes or hammers- don’t gimp yourself against these tough prot/boon monks by bringing a sword into the game.

Like I said in my post above: don’t create a build to defeat the teams that are easy- create your build to win against the tough teams that know what they are doing; you’ll easily beat the teams that don’t know what they are doing so why make a build around beating easy teams?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

A good axe or hammer warrior definately worries me slightly more on monk more than a good sword warrior, but that is discounting the utility that sword warriors can offer with a free elite slot. Final Thrust is almost good enough to be an elite, but its not, and that is a definate plus for swords. And charge in a warrior heavy build is just godly.

Good point JR. If you are running split squad or warrior heavy Sword warrior might and a good synergy. Today’s Gale warrior GvG metagame is definitely beneficial to a sword warrior.

glountz · Jan 23, 2006, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Chase, maybe I missed your point, but you missed mine, and for sure missed the OP'S one.
You began to flame sword warriors saying any prot monk could handle them in TA. You missed the point: this thread is made to propose W/N builds in CA. You proposed no W/N builds and spoke about TA. See? If you want to flame sword warriors, start a thread elsewhere.
The boon prots monks can be countered. A diversion shot in their blessed signet or mend aiment and they are severely handicapped. An Echoed Energy surge-Energy Surge-Energy burn combo also.
As for the axe warriors doing huge damage against sword warriors doing crap damage, I sincerely don't agree, especially if you speak about doing it against prot monks.
First, a maxed weapon attribute is the key point about doing damage. If you fell upon sword warriors with less than 15 in swordsmanship, effectively they must have made you laugh.
An axe warrior with 12 Axe mastery will do a lot more often crappy damage (6-10), and be significantly more useless than the same sword warrior (12 swordsmaship, 15 minimal damage) who has a consequent minimal damage.
This ensured minimal damage is why you see so much sword warriors with crappy swordsmanship. And they generally don't understand that their damage will come from their adrenalin skills. A final thrust at 16 Swordsmanship is as powerful as an eviscerate, believe me, but is laughable at 12 swordsmanship.
TO came back to the overpowered axe warrior, he will have a huge problem against a prot monk.
It's called protective spirit. It is commonly used among prot monks to avoid spikes, or to cast through backfire, or to add an enchant which will enhance skills like... CoP....
Not only it will reduce spike damage from the warrior (or mesmer or elementalist or ranger, any kind), but the prot monk is specialized in removing conditions/hexes. And a clever monk WILL remove deep wound to heal better. I used a full damage axe warrior (16 axe 13 strenght-Eviscerate-Penetrating attack-Executionner's) against such prot monks, and I cried loud. Protective spirit protected them and mend ailment did remove the deep wound. A full adrenal chain reduced to nothing with 2 spells.
For the hammer warrior, I really agree about his disrupting potential. But its DPS are not so higher than an axe one due to his low attack speed-which lowers as well the frequency of its adrenal attacks. If you played one, you will see that your main difficulty is to build your adrenalin to start your KD chain. It is really slow. However, a KDed Prot monk is, as you know, a near dead monk.
If you take the W/N I gave, he is suited for CA as he is self sufficient. Its main goal is to cripple a target, then follow by virulence. Plague touch/wild blow to remove blind/stances. The virulence trick is only to cover cripple. So if the target remove conditions one by one, you will be able to build your adrenalin before unleashing Galrath-FInal. At 16 sword, these two linked skills make really a lot of damage.

I end this discussion here.
I kindly ask you, Chase, to post your own W/N CA builds in this thread (because the ones which were posted are "turdy") and to discuss about your gripes against sword warriors and prot monks elsewhere.

BBoy_Manchild · Jan 23, 2006, 12:01 PM // 12:01

you all made good arguements, especially JR- except for the fact he put to use battle rage, now that its been fixed, it takes all your adrenaline with you, you will seldomly find the person you are attacking standing still (another warrior doesnt count, im talking about softies) so battle rage will prolly end before you get off one of the higher adrenaline costing skills (mainly final thrust) for sword, which i do not recommend personally, id go for plague signet {E} or whatever its called and go for sever/gash/galrath/final or maybe, pure or savage/galrath/final
axe id go
eviscerate
exe
penetrating
wild blow
frenzy
sprint
plague touch
ressig
and hammer
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...866#post745866

DJLEEZ · Jan 24, 2006, 02:09 AM // 02:09

I had alot of fun using Sever + Virulence. Note key words: Fun.
Who cares if i didnt beat HoH, i had fun. This is the most important aspect of games to me.

I recommend you try this combo if you're new to being a W/N. Don't forget plague touch too.

NightOwl · Feb 03, 2006, 09:08 AM // 09:08

I've tried a sword war with Virulence before. It just seemed like such a hassle to try to get the conditions going when I could have simple gone with an axe and laid the smack down.

JR · Feb 03, 2006, 09:53 AM // 09:53

(Two threads covering the same topic merged.)

Beat_Go_Stick · Feb 16, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

I think the main problem here is that everyone is focussing on death with their W/N....when did death become the W/N necrotic skill line? Blood works so much better, especially when considering sword skills.

Try out this build and tell me what you think:
W/N
Blood 12
Sword 10+4
Strength 8+1
Tactics hahahahaha :P

Use a Zealous PvP Sword (+15>50) of Fortitude (armor ignoring skills are too popular to use defensive mods) and a +12 Energy Blood off-hand item (I usually switch between the 20/20 one and the +1 blood/+30 health one depending on my mood). Gladiator armor is a must with the standard piece of Knights.

Skills...
1) Life Siphon
2) Life X-fer [E]
3) Plague Touch
4) Sever Artery
5) Gash
6) Final Thrust
7) Sprint/Rush
8) Res Sig

Make sure to cast 2 Siphons on 2 low priority targets first for an easy 22 seconds of +6 regen. Then pick main target, Siphon, Transfer, and go for it. This build works very well with a KD Warrior since they can keep a Monk focussed on healing themself while you chew any other caster to pieces.

Even on Monks, it gives an unhealthy -10 degen for 11 seconds...of course, CoP makes this a silly notion but part of playing on a team is realizing when you are not the one who should be beating on a monk. Hopefully you have 2 other teammates who can keep the enemy monk focussed on himself while you are free to go after the Mesmer, Ranger, or Elementalist and use your -10 degen plus Bleed/Deep Wound/Final Thrust combo on them instead. Mind you, it's rare that I won't attack a monk but there are times when sticking 2 hexes and 2 degens on a monk with CoP is just a waste (if you have 2 direct damage teammates, for example, you will only be helping the Monk heal, not doing more damage to him).

It doesn't look all too powerful, does it....well try it out and get a little used to it. You will likely get rocked the first few times you try it out but it ends up being a very powerful and effective build once you master it

E Power · Feb 16, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

My turn

1)Grenth's Balance
2)Hamstring
3)Frenzy
4)Sever Artery
5)Gash
6)Plauge Touch
7)Rez Sig
8)Final Thrust

Burakus Lightwing · Feb 16, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat_Go_Stick

I think the main problem here is that everyone is focussing on death with their W/N....when did death become the W/N necrotic skill line? Blood works so much better, especially when considering sword skills.

Try out this build and tell me what you think:
W/N
Blood 12
Sword 10+4
Strength 8+1
Tactics hahahahaha :P

Use a Zealous PvP Sword (+15>50) of Fortitude (armor ignoring skills are too popular to use defensive mods) and a +12 Energy Blood off-hand item (I usually switch between the 20/20 one and the +1 blood/+30 health one depending on my mood). Gladiator armor is a must with the standard piece of Knights.

Skills...
1) Life Siphon
2) Life X-fer [E]
3) Plague Touch
4) Sever Artery
5) Gash
6) Final Thrust
7) Sprint/Rush
8) Res Sig

Make sure to cast 2 Siphons on 2 low priority targets first for an easy 22 seconds of +6 regen. Then pick main target, Siphon, Transfer, and go for it. This build works very well with a KD Warrior since they can keep a Monk focussed on healing themself while you chew any other caster to pieces.

Even on Monks, it gives an unhealthy -10 degen for 11 seconds...of course, CoP makes this a silly notion but part of playing on a team is realizing when you are not the one who should be beating on a monk. Hopefully you have 2 other teammates who can keep the enemy monk focussed on himself while you are free to go after the Mesmer, Ranger, or Elementalist and use your -10 degen plus Bleed/Deep Wound/Final Thrust combo on them instead.

It doesn't look all too powerful, does it....well try it out and get a little used to it. You will likely get rocked the first few times you try it out but it ends up being a very powerful and effective build once you master it

I've been using almost this exact same set-up as a W/N for the past month to month and half. It is very fun! Not many people expect a W/N to be carrying LT. It's a nice little surprise to drop on someone right before you rush in to take them down.