Curse

Sabe · May 10, 2006, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Trying to make a build for my guild for gvg.

However for my flag runner I have two ultimate questions.

Im using a Ranger with the following skills.

Apply poison
Crippling shot
Savage shot
Debilitating shot
Storm chaser
Signet of weariness
Mantra of signets
Res/Troll ungenet

Should I flag runner take res or would self heal be better?

Anyone got good attribute spread?

Any suggestions?

Thom Bangalter · May 10, 2006, 11:09 AM // 11:09

is the mantra of signets/signet of weariness such a good combo that you need to drop rez?

For crip shot flag runner, this is pretty much a standard build except for the signets and mantra of signets.

And why all the e-deny? I don't really get it. I'd drop the signet stuff and bring distortion, rez, AND troll ungent.

as far as attributes, you'd want to have just enough to get your marks up to meet your req, then put the rest in expertise and wilderness survival, with a smidge for the distortion.

Sabe · May 10, 2006, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Well I dont want my ranger to just flag run all the time...when in battle I was thinking of using apostry necro. and using a ranger on each monk to drain.

sir lockt · May 10, 2006, 11:25 AM // 11:25

In general I agree with Thom and I personally believe you should take a res sig (as is for the entire team, maybe an exception for the monks).

You try to mix a dedicated runner with some offensive e-denial skills.

Try to figure out what your team need... when being a dedicated runner, you team should be able to do without you (so follow the remarks of Thom), if the teams needs the denial for some strange strategy (that cannot fit this in the other 7 chars) you shouldnt be a dedicated flagrunner, only an occasional...depending on the opposition.

Medion · May 10, 2006, 12:27 PM // 12:27

I think it depends though, I really think bringing troll is necesarry, because there are times when you are fighting another runner 1v1, or even 1v2 and you won't survive that without troll.

A res signet is not always needed I think, it depends a little. For example do you already have someone with a hard-rezz? And do you plan on getting morale boosts or only keeping them away from the enemy?
When I ran with my ranger, I never liked having a rez-signet equipped because I feel it was just a waste on my bar. Half the time, I wasn't there anyway. I was a dedicated runner though, so that may differ.

asdar · May 10, 2006, 12:58 PM // 12:58

It's not awful not to bring a res on every char. My rule of thumb, if you have a resmer, is 3 char's with res sigs. It's up to you whether you decide on this char or another to take one of the res.

I like the build and might consider another dom skill like blackout even instead of trolls or res sig.

It's all a question of your teams build in my opinion. If you're heavy on healing and defense I'd drop the trolls and if your monks are going to have trouble I'd take the trolls. If your other slots aren't carrying res sigs I'd add the res sig.

Sabe · May 10, 2006, 02:19 PM // 14:19

So far my build is as follows: I dont know ritualist skills that well so I need help. What do you think? Could it work?

1) Monk/Mesmar

Boon Protecter

Divoon Boon
Reverse Fortune
Guardian
Mantra of Recall/Powerdrain
Protective spirit
Signet of Devotion
Mend Condtion
Inspired Hex/Remove Hex

2) Monk/Mesmar

Boon Protector

Divoon Boon
Reverse Fortune
Guardian
Mantra of Recall/Powerdrain
Protective spirit
Signet of Devotion
Mend Condtion
Inspired Hex/Remove Hex

3) Ritualist/mo

Protect/Spirit spammer/Healer

Heal Party
Recuperation
Union

*Need to talk to a ritualist to Tira maybe to find what skills* thinking protection and attack

4) Necro/ele

Order/Warder

Curses 12
Blood 10
Earth 10
Soul Reaping 10

Blood Renewal
Order of Apostasy *elite*
Order of Pain
Glyph of energy
Ward Against Melee
Ward Against Foes/ward of stability
Ward Against elements/ward of stablility
Res

The idea is with order of apostasy and order of pain used in cojunction. Any attacks by the rangers, warriors, will do + 12 dmg and remove any enchantments going on to the monk. So with all the boon protects around will have no reverse fortune/guardian and anything else meaning pure damage.

5) Ranger/mes - Set on lowest number monk

Disrupter/Energy denier

Favourable winds
*Prepartion* - Kindle arrows?
Punishing shot
Savage shot
Deblitating shot
Signet of weariness
Mantra of signets
Res

6) Ranger/me - set on highest number monk

Flag Runner/energy denial/crippler/disrupter

Apply Poison
Storm chaser
Crippling shot
Savage shot
Deblitating shot
Signet of weariness
Mantra of signets
Res/Troll Ungent

7) Warrior/ele - Hammer Knockdown warrior

= Caller/Knockdown

Devestating Hammer
Heavy Blow
Wild Blow
Frenzy
Sprint
Aftershock
Healing Signet
Res

8 ) Warrior/ele - Shock axe warrior

= Eviscerate, Executionars spike on calls

Eviscerate
Executionars
Wild Blow/axe rake
Frenzy
Shock
Sprint
Heal Signet
Res

Its nearly 2 am but I think this may have the means to be a decent build.

With wards, ritualist protecting us.

Necro - using order pain/apsosity - to remove any enchants that may stop melees getting thru or preventing dmg.

Rangers disrupting denying energy. Ranger 5 take low number monk and stays on it. Ranger 6 take highest number monk and destroy that.

Warriors spking!!! I can explain how. Attacking same target once adrenaline is ready.

Thom Bangalter · May 10, 2006, 02:45 PM // 14:45

yeah, yeah. I think we all get the idea of adrenal spiking, hopefully.

HP Spam, in my opinion, is terrible on everthing except elementalists. Heal party is great and all, especially vs degen or pressure builds, but 15 energy is a ton for a ritualist to be throwing up all the time, especially since most of the spirits will be dying awfully quickly.

I'm going to avoid looking at the 'big picture' right now and look at a few individual classes.

First, my favorite character, The Warrior:
The Hammer build you have is not the best. There are a ton of threads around here debating which hammer elite is the best, but I'll save you time and tell you the correct answer is Backbreaker. Furthermore, Crushing Blow is a must for hammer warriors, as it's their only way to inflict a deep wound, one of the scariest conditions in the game.Also, for hammers, rush>sprint, since hammer builds are energy hungry as is. Irresistable blow is another must, since it's great to spam vs Monks with Guardian up, or anyone using any nasty stances. Also, aftershock is fun with a warrior and all, but it also eats up a ton of energy, best suited for spamming irresistable blow.

You may want to consider something else to deal damage, since warrior spiking can only go far. One well time guardian, reversal of fortune, or prot spirit will obliterate your adrenal spikes.

As far as ritualists go, Shelter & Union are insanely good.

I'm awfully tired right now and don't have time to go over everything with a fine-toothed comb, so I may post again later, but these are my initial thoughts so far. I'm interested to study the necro a bit more, as that seems the most innovative thing in the post.

Oh, one last thing for my edit: no one does e-deny better than a mesmer.

Sabe · May 10, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

My points on this are)

Rangers can with distractions energy denial can make a monk just as much annoyed without being as soft targets...With Dark Apostry up it will mean that the Each monk will lose all there enchants such as divine boon, guardian reverse fortune when they are hit with a melee attack. So surely this will keep the monks occupied and if they try to heal the warriors target the enchant will simply be removed as they are taking melee hits *order of apolstry*.

Rush I agree with - they wont have enchants so therefore guardian will be removed once one melee hit has landed which will be quck as only 42% chance to block. any anything else such as protective spirit aegis. will all go.

Rangers will be removing monk enchants such as divine boon so no heal will go on target either. And distracting and killing energy.

I feel that if the axe warrior and hammer warrior are spiking the same target then hammer warrior doenst need crushing blow - as deep wound will already come in the form of Eviscerate and deep wounds do not stack. Which is why the big spike will come from Eviscerate, Executionarrs, devastating hammer/ aftershock which will kill the target nearly instantly i would think.

I agree ritualist with heal party maybe a problem but im

CrispyCritter · May 10, 2006, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Just looking at your build, I can tell you that your setup is sub-optimal. The above poster already mentioned about Heal Party on the Rit, since he simply won't have enough energy to use it.

Good skills for a Rit are: Shelter, Union, Displacement, Recuperation, Weapon of Warding/Vengeful Weapon, Ritual Lord/Soul Twisting {E}, Boon of Creation, and of course, res sig.

Of course, rits have other good skills as well. Shadowsong is great vs. any kind of physical damage, although I don't feel that Pain and Bloodsong really do all that much. Doom is a nice Spawning-power based DD spell that you could use to contribute damage to your adrenal spike. Additionally, it's possible to spam ranger spirits, or even make use of minions, as there's not much corpse control in GvG, and spawning power and Boon of Creation both work with minions. Flesh of my Flesh could even be useful in place of the res sig, as I didn't see a hard res, and most hard rezzes except for Flesh are too slow to run on anything other than a mesmer primary.

As for the necro, I can already tell he'll have energy issues, and Glyph of Lesser Energy (Glyph of Energy is elite) just won't be enough to fix them. Order of Apostasy IS powerful, but it's a ton of energy, and a decent amount of health as well. I could see running it on a team like IWAY or Barrageway, but it might not be the best for a balanced GvG build. Energizing Winds could help to manage it's energy cost, as well as reducing the energy cost of Heal Party, but since it would increase the recharges of all your skills by 30% it would probably screw the rest of the build.

For your disrupter/energy denial ranger, drop Punishing Shot for Oath Shot. This will allow you to do E-denial much more effectively. Also drop Favorable and Kindle for Read the Wind, as it's one less skill slot. Use a recurve bow on this guy, and you may find that you don't even need Read the Wind. Consider throwing in Blackout, Whirling Defense, or Distracting Shot.

As for your flagger, that question has already been addressed. Drop the E-denial off of him and give him Unguent, Distortion, or anything that would help him run the flag.

Your warriors aren't terrible, although I really wouldn't run Aftershock on the hammer war. Not only does it cost 10 energy, but Aftershock has a long aftercast, which is not great for your damage. Crushing Blow isn't stricly necessary as long as you always spike with the axe war. You don't need Wild Blow on both your warriors. Axe Rake is viable for the axer, although I generally prefer Bull's Strike.

I would prefer Hammer Bash to heavy blow on the hammer war, as that will allow you to still knock down a target even if the weakness is removed. Rush is a good call on the hammer war, and I'd tend to have him run Irresistable as well. As for Backbreaker vs. Dev. Hammer/Earthshaker, it's largely a matter of personal preference. Backbreaker is probably better if you're spiking, but Dev. hammer is probably more pressure overall.

Patrograd · May 10, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

I was under the impression that no-one used dedicated runners any more.....

glenn_rolfe · May 11, 2006, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

I was under the impression that no-one used dedicated runners any more.....

they're doin' it "old school"

yeah, dedicated runners are pretty inefficient

Vindexus · May 11, 2006, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Flag runners with Party wide skills are probably your best best. I like water E/Mo's for that added snare when you need to take out a split. Extinguish and Heal Party are great on flag runners.

Iraqalypse Now · May 12, 2006, 03:04 AM // 03:04

The plan of not using a dedicated runner is to push the other team off the stand 8v7. Water E/Mo's are good, although I see a lot of hybrid air/water runners that use blinding flash, lightning orb, windborne speed, and maybe gale from air. Air eles have a much better time 1v1 against assassins than water eles - blinding flash is really good 1v1 against assassins because its not worth it for the assassin to run something weird like caltrops -> signet of malice -> Iron Palm -> Falling Spider -> Twisting Fangs against an air ele, especially when other combos are better against almost everything else.

Ele/mo flag runner should probably take a hard res, although if the runner is getting lots of DP it would be a good idea to have another hard res somewhere in the build. Res Sig and hard res are for completely different situations - Res Sigs are for applying pressure against turtled opponents while you control the flag stand, and for quickly ressing vital characters to prevent a roll. Hard resses are ideal for picking up DPed out characters, as well as for non-urgent resses.

Patrograd · May 12, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iraqalypse Now

The plan of not using a dedicated runner is to push the other team off the stand 8v7.

Most of the top teams are actually using two or even three characters capable of running the flag and they will chain run the flag until they get a spare at the stand. or, they like to have the flexibility of saying "against warrior heavy or ranger spike, we need our blinding flash guy at the stand, but against caster spike we need our ranger with his distracting" etc.

Flexibility ftw

Thom Bangalter · May 13, 2006, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Our guild totally uses a dedicated flag runner. And by dedicated, I mean he can keep getting a flag over and over again until we have the flag stand. Once we have the flag stand capped,gained our morale, and have another flag handy, he can stay and bring the pain. and by pain, i mean poison. and as much as I love/hate water eles (love having them on a team, hate playing against them since i'm a warrior and deep freeze is one of my mortal enemies) I think they are not quite as versatile as the old school, tried and true crip shot flag runner.