Curse

CyberNigma · May 16, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

I'm not familiar with how to discuss closed stickies (I'm guessing by default they are usually closed since they are made available on the top of the list), so I guess this thread will do.

I agree that this is a good idea:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

We don't need to hear any of the following:
How an alliance is "cheating."
How an alliance's policies are evil.

That an alliance does or does not deserve a town.
Anything else that's just bashing another alliance.

However,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

That a town has been freed from an alliance, stolen from an alliance, liberated, conquered, crushed by Juggernauts, whatever.

The game is meant to be competitive in a fun way, not in this childish "We're better than you" attitude. The ingame fighting should stay ingame and off these forums. Whoever wins is the winner, and both sides need to learn to say gg and try harder next time.

This is another 'interpretation of how the game is meant to be played, and I guess being a mod your interpretation on your (collectively) boards has more weight than ours, but you left out a vital portion of what it was meant to be. It was also meant to be a role playing game (Competitive Role Playing Game to be precise). Flaming to the point of calling alliances cheaters definitely has nothing to do with either of those and should be out in a community discussion, I agree. However, posting that someone has 'liberated' a city, which Guild Wars ITSELF does when factions take over cities (Factions consist of alliances which consist of guilds) is not a bad thing. In sports, when one team beats another team you'll see people (in a friendly fashion) saying how the Cowboys crushed so and so, or how the Rangers caused an upset... it's all in friendly competitive spirit.

In an RPG we immerse ourselves into these sides. We like seeing our side crush the other side and winning for the alliance and/or faction we represent.

That a town has been freed from an alliance, stolen from an alliance, liberated, conquered, crushed by Juggernauts, whatever. Nobody likes to hear someone say "I hope so and so gets an injury so he can't play" as that's just outright mean. People do say that they hope one team beats another (usually from the area they represent) and nobody thinks that is mean or 'flaming'. If I were a member of an alliance, or was not in an alliance but chose one that I liked better, its all fun and play to wish they crush their opponent. I don't think it would be nice to say their opponents are 'cheating' and stuff that's just slanderous out-of-game comments. What about factions? Should Luxons not say, hey we've fought back the Kurzicks for the Harvest Temple-wooohooo because it might hurt some player's feelings? It's not mean, its 'competitive' and it involves part of the 'rpg' spirit of the game.

I agree with most of it, but some parts sound like sour apples to me. Btw, I haven't flamed any guild/alliance/faction, only pointed out an example of a Faction. I do agree that from a PvP aspect (san roleplaying or involving yourself in an alliance), that all of it could look like flames though because PvP really takes a lot of the RPG out of it. Hopefully people will see it from the PvE and RPG aspect of it (as well as keep the cheating claims out of the discussions).

Imagine being banned on your favorite sports forum because you were talking about how your home team rolled over the opposing team.

Savio · May 16, 2006, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

I'm not familiar with how to discuss closed stickies (I'm guessing by default they are usually closed since they are made available on the top of the list)

They aren't closed by default, but they aren't typically discussion-type threads. It's policy which isn't open for general debate.

Quote:

This is another 'interpretation of how the game is meant to be played

No, just an interpretation of how the forums should be run. Guild versus guild and alliance versus alliance squabbles bog down otherwise constructive discussions. They can do all the fighting they want ingame, we don't have charge over that, but when they're on these forums they better be civil. Guilds have for the most part kept their squabbles off of this forum, the alliances should learn to do the same.

As an example of how it's bogging down the forums, someone from an alliance posted just before me, saying how it doesn't matter since his alliance is eventually going to win. What does it have to do with guild/alliance flaming policy? Virtually nothing. But mention alliance, town control, or elite mission once and they decide it's a good time to bring up who's winning and who's cheating. Pretty soon this thread becomes another alliance versus alliance flamefest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

it's all in friendly competitive spirit.

It's not friendly competitive spirit when both sides are resorting to calling the other side cheaters, evil, etc. Very few of the "we own the town now" posts go without the previous statements or implications thereof. Most of it is slander. Only a handful of people from both sides are actually taking this in the spirit of fun, and the posts from those people have gone untouched.

Quote:

Imagine being banned on your favorite sports forum because you were talking about how your home team rolled over the opposing team.

You wouldn't be banned for that; you would be banned for calling the other team RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing losers, the game is ruined because of them, and they don't deserve to play. Guess what most of the posts were like? This e-drama has no place invading every single thread discussing town control and elite missions; it contributes absolutely nothing to any discussion.

CyberNigma · May 16, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Yeah, but there may always be top alliances fighting each other. The new dynamic of Factions makes this different than talking trash about guild previously. Before factions, guild vs guild had little to nothing to do with PvE (other than using PvE chars for the helm and faster skill cap). There was also very little RPG involved. It was more or less people playing cards (regular cards, not Magic) and gg at the end of it. Alliances, on the other hand, are very integrated into the PvE and RPG aspect of the game. Of course like I said before calling alliances cheaters has nothing to do with either and should be directed to ANet, but rooting for the home team and being happy when they stomp the the other team is quite natural. On a larger scale we see it between the Luxons and Kurzicks. This is all fun and part of the game (the RPG aspect of it) If you are Luxon, and enjoying the rpg/pve aspect, then you should be proud of being a Luxon, and vice versa. Guild wars itself announces when a town is liberated from the Kurzicks/Luxons if you are in that town. You even get to see the guards go own the previous holder's guards. It is true that alliances are comprised of guilds, but things have changed from chapter one and we have to change with them.

The rules were obviously written for chapter 1, which definitely makes sense. Now, we as players have to go with the changes and these are recommendations for the rules to change with the game. Otherwise, it just gets stagnant. I rather enjoy the Luxons and Kurzicks yelling at each other (within the limits of a role) in-game and out on the boards. Of course when they bring non-role stuff into the discussion then yeah there's a problem. I just don't think it should all be lumped together. Hell, I think it would be neat to even see fan fiction based on the alliances which evolves on how they portray themselves...

EDIT: Sorry Savio, I missed your post above. It skipped down to the other one. In reply, I think your message cleared a lot of things up. I agree with your train of thought there, and this more of a chance to ask that you guys up there (mods) don't clump everything alliance-related together. The sticky kind of sounded like that. I think ArenaNet made both Factions flawed for a reason, so that you couldn't pick one side and say they are holier than though with any proof. For example, the Luxons are blood-thirsty (me being on that side), according to the story, even resorting to killing familiy members to get ahead. The Kurzicks on the other hand are deceitful and conniving, but not blood-thirsty. Therfore, each side has ammo against the other side.. :-) The cheaters comments and straight out-of-contest flaming is definitely something we can do without. Saying that alliance so-and-so is going to crush alliance so-and-so is just part of the new concept of Factions..

From your post it ounds like you will indeed look at them individually and not group them together..