Curse

zoozoc · May 16, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

And with the new scrimage mode, you cna have fun all day doing 1v1, 2v2, ect. Its quite a fun way to waste time and get much better skills. And great for testing too.

Abdul · May 16, 2006, 07:16 AM // 07:16

1) Random Arenas or Alliance Battles suit this mode of play. Unfortunatly, the amount of griefers in Random Arenas might give you a bad impression, but I still find this a fun and easy to jump into mode for when I just want to take a break from the high-coordination and concentration of high end PvP and kill people. Alliance Battles is like an improved and polished Arathi Basin.

2) Uber items have the same stats as normal items in GW, only they look better. The Guild War World Championships as a great example of how players of greater skill can dominate.

3) The customization options are huge in GW. In WoW there are about 2-3 viable PvP builds per class. Each class in GW has dozens of different builds per primary class thanks to the wide variety of skills and dual class system.

Also worth mentioning is team builds, where skills on one character works in synergy with skills on a teammates build, something that doesn't really exist in WoW.

In WoW it will cost you a lot of time and ingame money to respec your talent tree, in GW you can create a PvP only character, with max level, stats and items without having to play through the entire game again. Definately a big draw for players only interested in PvP.

4) Hell yes.

5) I am an ex-WoW player (played for about a year since release) who is mainly into PvP, so hopefully I can give a decent comparison.

Modes: Alliance Battles is similar the Arathi Basin, Hall of Heroes contains a lot of different modes including CTF, King of the Hill. Random Arenas and Team Arenas = 4v4. Guild vs Guild, only WoW equivelant I can think of is Alterac Valley, only it is 8 guildies vs 8 guildies instead of Zerg vs Zerg, and no PvE quests. GvG is generally considered to be the pinnacle of GW PvP. There is also Observer mode where you get to watch the top guilds play. GW has no world PvP, which means no corpse camping and lowbie ganking.

Luck: WoW tends to be more chaotic and random, some reasons being: critical hits making a huge difference in the outcome, random debuff lengths. In GW, while there is a random element, the game is more chess than dice-rolling. Debuffs always last a set amount of time unless removed, critical hits alone are not game winning.

Balance: Most WoW players will agree that class balance is messed up. Some classes can completely shutdown other classes, with no option to counter. GW is one of the most balanced games I have played. You can always create a build to counter their counter.

Waiting: Not sure how it is these days, but back when I played, I had to wait HOURS to get into a Battleground. In GW it is easy to get into a game at any given time. Random Arenas has an average waiting time of 30 seconds for example. Guild vs Guild average waiting time is maybe 5 minutes during peak periods.

Ladder: I read a lot of horror stories about how high ranked players had to play 24/7 or abuse the system by trading wins or account sharing just to maintain their position. Take a week off to relax, and you lose the ranks you spent months working to get. Quite a number of players have posted about getting rank 1, then quitting WoW because they are so burnt out on it. GW has 2 ladders: The Rank/Fame system, while not without its own flaws, is at least static, so you do not lose anything you have already gained. The Guild Ladder resembles the ladders used in sports, and does a decent job of matching similarly ranked guilds.

Depth: The 700+ skills in GW make for an incredible amount of different builds to try. In WoW, like you said, pretty much boils down to hitting the same 3 buttons over and over. There is very little room for innovation given the limited talent system.

Items: As mentioned, you cannot get weapons that will give you a huge advantage over other players. Getting taken down in 2-3 hits by an epic-geared player was very common. Getting epic gear (only possible through grinding reputation or doing 40 man zergs) yourself was the only way to counter this. This kind of absurdity does not exist in GW.

Crowd Control: IMHO one of the things that ruins WoW PvP. Getting turned into a sheep and losing control of your character for extended periods of time is not fun. Bandaid solutions like trinkets on 2 minute cooldowns and diminishing returns do not help. GW has these sort of spells, but they are more easily countered, or still leave the players with a choice on how to handle the situation. eg. 'Backfire' causes any player casting a spell to take massive damage, you can either choose to continue casting through it to get off an important heal, or you can wait for it to wear off and attack with your wand in the meantime.

UI Mods: In WoW having certain mods can give you an unfair advantage over players that do not have them, for example, auto potion drinking, timers that tell you exactly how long a condition will last on an ememy, auto hex removers. Mods that play the game for you do not belong in PvP. GW does not allow such mods. You can also customize the GW interface quite a bit without any programming knowledge.

Metagame: The gameplay is constantly evolving in GW, new builds pop up, counter builds are made, builds are improved to counter the counter. Wow has no metagame, its the same thing over and over.

Hmm, ok that turned out to be a WoW bashing rant, but I hope you got something useful out of it :P

Warskull · May 16, 2006, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrogers

Hi, I've been playing WoW for more than half a year now and the PvP in this game has become pretty much craptastic. I never liked PvE so I'm thinking of cancelling my account. I heard that the PvP in GW is much better then in WoW, so I'm definately interested in GW, but before I buy it, there are a few questions I'd like to have answered. Thanks in advance

1-Is there a possible way to do solo PvP (like when you just want to play to have fun while listening to music)?

2-Is the difference between a skilled player and a medium player obvious? In WoW, skill was definately important, but the epics have made it to a point where a total noob with tier 2 could beat the best player.

3a-Is there any way to customize your character, like in WoW you had talents, is there anything similar in GW?
3b-If there is, are there "cookie-cutter" builds that most players of a given class would spec to? Like most Warriors would be Arms/Fury, most Mages Arc/Fire, etc.

4-Are there a lot of different abilities? Because the thing in WoW is that most of the classes have become 2-3 button wonders, a Mage could only spam frostbolt and do well in PvP, same for a Hunter or a Warrior.

5-How would you compare PvP in WoW to PvP in GW (mostly for those who played WoW and GW)?

I think that's pretty much it, thanks in advance.

1) There is no real 1v1 option in Guild Wars. However there is an option where you have two randomly arranged teams of four. This tends to be the quick, no strings attached, PvP. While the player quality tends to be lower, you can run anything you want and you can just play and have fun.

2) While there are some minor item imbalances available Guild Wars has PvP characters that are instantly top level with top tier equipment. Typically the stronger player will win, in some cases build selection can also factor into the result. There is no huge item imbalance in WoW where if you get item X you win unless the enemy also has item X or you are a complete and total moron. Skill means a lot in Guild Wars and there is currently a massive skill gap between the good players and the bad ones.

3a) You select 8 skills and arrange your stats in a manner. While none of this is permanent, it does define your character for the match (you can't respec mid match.) With the skills available you can come up with unique niches and skill combos. You can create a PvE character if you want special armors (purely aesthetic.) However you can also jump straight in with a PvP character.

3b) Some builds are stronger than others and some appeal to newbies. For example among newbies you will find hordes of W/Mos using mending. Something just tells them to run it. However you have a good deal of flexibility to develop builds and experiment. The ease of respecing and recreating PvP characters makes this game far more open to build development. However most low to mid level players have a tendency to stick to a few builds they know and will some cookie cutter builds.

4) There are a number of builds that can be run mindlessly. However at the same time for an experienced player who knows how to get the most out of every skill there are a plethora of builds open to them. One mesmer type may be popular and easy to run, but others can be incredibly effective also.

Snowman · May 16, 2006, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrogers

Sounds very interesting, now if I could only get a WoW player to answer my question no 5...

Thanks anyways

Ive not played wow, however I have alot of friends that do play it, also there are some facts about the two which are my reasons for prefering GW.

Point 1 - Servers
WoW : Operates on servers, there are hundreds!.. some more populated than others, therfore the PvP is restricted/limited to only the people on that server.

GW : When you enter any PvP battle this can be matched against anyone in the world.. especially when you player 8v8 matches

Point 2 - Levels
WoW : requires that you start from level 1, building (grinding) your character through the levels to aquire skills and items as you progress, meaning that when you meet someone in PvP its not a balanced battle.

GW : With GW you can make a maximum level character (lvl 20) straight away! no grinding or leveling up Via PvE, there are reward points through doing PvP which you can then exchange to 'unlock' skills and upgrades, once these are unlocked they can be applied to ANY pvp character you wish to make.

These two points are probably (for me anyway) the most stricking differences between the PvP Aspects of both games.

With 'Factions' there are some PvP Arenas reachable only via PvE progression, these however are more casual and can be regarded as 'solo pvp' because there is no requirment to form teams.

It has to be said that most WoW players I know are much less serious about their PvP than a guildwars player, the Wow pvp is more like fun, but GW can get more serious as its more highly competative, which the wow player doesnt seem to enjoy.

Aiiane · May 16, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here - unlike most MMORPG characters, where you'd choose where you invest your skills and then they're pretty much set that way, GW's skillpoints can be reallocated at any time. You can change your setup whenever you want, switching to a different set of individual skills, and even different attributes to go with those skills.

Guild Wars focuses less on getting skills or items, and more on how you use them in synergy. There's no radical imbalance between "common" items and "rare" items unless you're in some sort of dress-up competation.

bobrogers · May 16, 2006, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Thanks a lot everyone. I'm only two questions away from buying Guild Wars.

1-I heard that to gain access to some skills you need to do PvE. Since I'm not really interested into PvE (well not in WoW at least, might be a bit more interesting in GW), would that be an important weakness to my character?

2-Since I don't know anybody in GW, what's the best way to get into a good PvP guild?

Thanks a lot everyone, especially Abdul.

jummeth · May 16, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

1. If you don't play PvE at all, it will take a bit longer to really get into the game. PvP is not a forgiving place. So you will spend more time lying on your face in the mud than learning to play.

You can just stay in pvp, since you can unlock skills using whats called faction points. However, it is very much faster to play a bit of PvE where you unlock skills left right and centre at the start. You get the feel of a class and monsters are pretty dumb so a small error may not be immediately lethal.

2. It is very easy to join a guild. Also while you play, you make nice teams and you add to friends. Then they will call you up whenever they have a space in their team. Of course, you will have to be half decent.
PvE is another place to make lots of friends, although naturally they will not be as hardcore pvpers since heck they are in PvE =P

Warskull · May 16, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrogers

Thanks a lot everyone. I'm only two questions away from buying Guild Wars.

1-I heard that to gain access to some skills you need to do PvE. Since I'm not really interested into PvE (well not in WoW at least, might be a bit more interesting in GW), would that be an important weakness to my character?

2-Since I don't know anybody in GW, what's the best way to get into a good PvP guild?

Thanks a lot everyone, especially Abdul.

1) Unfortunately, you must unlock skills before you can use them on a PvP character and you usually have to do at least one partial run through of PvE to get a usable skill set. This is the biggest downside to Guild Wars. So there is a degree of grind to get to a point where you can PvP effectively. The game has premade PvP characters to help new player, however these characters are complete and utter garbage and for the most part unusable. If you don't know exactly which skills to unlock getting into PvP can take a bit of time. This is the biggest reason to not get Guild Wars.

2) Getting into a good PvP guild would be hard. A majority of GW playerbase is PvE only. The good Guilds tend to get flooded by requests from PvE players who do random arena with bad builds and think they are good and thus tend to be very selective. You would probably have to play some cookie-cutter builds in tombs to help improve your PvP skills and then hunt down a mid-level PvP guild and work your way up. You will also have to go to different fansites. Guild Wars Guru has policies that make guild hunting very poor and it tends to have a massive PvE leaning. You won't find a good PvP guild recruiting on this site.

jummeth · May 16, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

I beg to differ about point 1. There is no grinding to get skills at first.
Whats the point of PvPing when you don't actually know what classes look like or what the hell a skill does.

I think at least a partial run though the PvE story is required. It doesn't take long either. Treat them as a tutorial which for the most part they are. Unless you farm, there is no grinding.

Gigashadow · May 16, 2006, 06:35 PM // 18:35

GW PvP is 10000x better than WoW PvP. I have an epic'd out 60 warlock who can 3 shot people, it's stupid. WoW is now 80% gear 20% skill, and the problem is getting worse, not better.

GW is a way way better game in most respects. The only thing it lacks is any sort of community in game. Guilds are also a lot smaller, there are a lot more of them, and people in GW hop guilds a lot more.

Thom · May 16, 2006, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrogers

Thanks a lot everyone. I'm only two questions away from buying Guild Wars.

1-I heard that to gain access to some skills you need to do PvE. Since I'm not really interested into PvE (well not in WoW at least, might be a bit more interesting in GW), would that be an important weakness to my character?

2-Since I don't know anybody in GW, what's the best way to get into a good PvP guild?

Thanks a lot everyone, especially Abdul.

1) You do need to pve some if you want to pvp seriously, but not all that much (~30 hours per class). Simply play through the story which a character and you are most of the way there. To fully unlock all skills you will need to grind a bit, but that can be done in PvP or PvE. PvE tends to be the quickest way to unlock skills.

If you seriously hate PvE, there is a way to grind PvP with the least horrible premades until you unlock exactly the right skills to modify a premade to something reasonable. So after a few days you'll have an ok build, but you will have a long way to go until you have the diversity you will want. It isn't a matter of weakness, but people do request certain skill so diversity is everything.

2)Make a good impression and let people know you are looking for a guild. Join a bad guild and PvP with them as much as possible, but keep your feelers out for top PvP guild. Getting PvP titles will give you some sort credentials.

Loch · May 16, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Another huge difference between MMO's and Guild Wars is team perspective.

MMO's are all about playing for yourself. You build up your powerful avatar and get completely uber equipment. You want to be able to fit into a team role at times, but you don't want to give up your ability to solo, since finding groups can suck. You want as much power as possible so that you have the most presence on the battlefield. Your ideal situation is to have your avatar do as much as possible in as little time as possible.

In Guild Wars' PvP, solo play doesn't exist (some roles, like flag runners, are sometimes isolate from the main fight but they're still doing stuff for the team). You're always playing a role as part of a team. You don't play roles that "do everything but excel in nothing." Your team should have Warriors that focus on dealing damage and can survive for periods when they're over-extended and out of the range of Monks (which are the healers/protectors). You don't worry about doing lots of damage and lots of self-healing, because those characters suck at both. The worst Monks bring traps or fire nukes because they have the MMO mindset of being a single avatar, not a part of a team. Utility characters exist too, but they still perform vital roles - a character that blinds Warriors, knocks down enemy Monks to disrupt their defense, and uses "Heal Party" to combat full-party degen is still accomplishing a role by filling in the holes that the team build is missing.

The bottom line is, Guild Wars is all about the team, and not about a bunch of individuals and their "uber lvl 60's".

Yanman.be · May 16, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Basically, you can become pro in GW by just learning from a book or a person, without ever playing the game.

In WoW, you first gotta clickerdeclick your way through the game...

Saider maul · May 16, 2006, 08:15 PM // 20:15

if all ya want is skills for pvp do this.

Make an IWAY warrior,or ranger ( touch or interupt ),cookie cutter it and farm 10k faction. your first 3k facton will get your elite the rest are 1k a skill.once one of these is build and mods are unlocked approx 25k faction, make a new character and generate 10k more faction to build a new pvp character instantly. faction in arena is so easy to generate. i average 5k of faction in a few hrs just screwing off. GVG have the highest faction reward.
mind you pvp is balthazar faction pve is kurzick/luxon faction which you can still participate in if you wish to. PVP characters can't go in PVE but PVE can cross between both.
thanks to factions guild halls now have added abilities so customized weapons is now possible(20% dmg) simply buy a green weapon (ewww,ack,hiss) or unlock the mods and build your custom weapon.
caster weapons are restricted to mod type to not overpower.

if you know how to pvp god characters are only day(s) in the making.
your only restriction will be elite armours. same stats not as good a look.

either way this game is 95% gravy.

Loch · May 16, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

^ Reincarnation of Ian Boyd.

Seriously, like any other game, you have to play to get good so you can win. You don't play to get uber equipment so you can win.

EDIT: Which reminds me, while WoW has Leroy Jenkins, Guild Wars has the Master Strategist Ian Boyd. Boyd was worth so many more laughs than Jenkins.

TheOneMephisto · May 16, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Basically, you can become pro in GW by just learning from a book or a person, without ever playing the game.

In WoW, you first gotta clickerdeclick your way through the game...

Gotta disagree. Some things take experience to pull off well. You can't learn how to deal with all kinds of different situations, to adapt to new ones, to use proper timing, what characters/hexes/enchantments/etc. are most important to remove at a given time, etc. I agree that you can become an ok-decent player from just learning from a book/person and a small amount of experience, but to become pro you really need to play your character for a while.

Wrath Of Dragons · May 16, 2006, 08:26 PM // 20:26

One of the biggest differences between wow/gw is balance. GW focuses completely on balance. no one charachter type is "uber", any build can be countered, and things found to be over/under powered are soon fixed

bobrogers · May 16, 2006, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Thanks everyone. I think most people misunderstood what I meant by PvE. In WoW PvE is doing 5+ hours/day in 40man raids, it's not leveling from 1-60.

Of course I'll be leveling a few characters from 1-20 only because I never played GW, I don't want to start PvPing the very moment I buy the game, because I'll be a total noob. :P

Thanks a lot everybody, if you have anything else to add please do.

Oh one more thing, should I buy also buy factions? I haven't heard too much about it, but I know that you don't need GW to play Factions, but that you will only have access to the Faction territories... Could someone explain this to me?

And if I prefer PvP, is buying both games (about 100$ or something) worth it?

muelon · May 16, 2006, 08:47 PM // 20:47

I have a level 51 Hunter in WOW.
I have 3 characters that I finished the original Guild Wars game with.

I my opinion
WOW is a much better PVE game the GW. GW pve is actualy quite boring.
WOW is much more exciting PVP then GW. Notice i said exciting. Being on a PVP server is hard to describe. Ganking ali everwhere. Hiding behind trees, ambush ali, next day team with ali in elite areas. Keeps you on your toes.

GW is a much better PVP game then WOW. GW has taken every PVP thing that is broken in WOW (and there are lots) and has fixed it.
No waiting an hour for a battleground.
Instant entry into random areana.
Very balanced skills.
Better in every account.
But still not as exciting as PVP in WOW.

IMHO

bobrogers · May 16, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by muelon

I have a level 51 Hunter in WOW.
I have 3 characters that I finished the original Guild Wars game with.

I my opinion
WOW is a much better PVE game the GW. GW pve is actualy quite boring.
WOW is much more exciting PVP then GW. Notice i said exciting. Being on a PVP server is hard to describe. Ganking ali everwhere. Hiding behind trees, ambush ali, next day team with ali in elite areas. Keeps you on your toes.

GW is a much better PVP game then WOW. GW has taken every PVP thing that is broken in WOW (and there are lots) and has fixed it.
No waiting an hour for a battleground.
Instant entry into random areana.
Very balanced skills.
Better in every account.
But still not as exciting as PVP in WOW.

IMHO

Not to be mean or anything but TBH it's only exciting because it's your first char and you haven't been 60 yet.

World of Warcraft begins at lvl 60.