Curse

zola · May 02, 2006, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Hi,

Yesterday we met that skill for the first time in GvG and were completely unprepared.

Shadow Shrouds (E, 10/1/20, shadow arts, Hex spell):
For 3-8 seconds, target foe cannot be the target of enchantments.

I was playing a booner and my usual reflexes on spike were met with click-click and a dead target.

After a while we started to realize what was going on and on click, switched to mend condition, the only “heal” on the bar that would work. Still, this is not exactly the kind of skill that will save a target and if the target doesn’t call the hex, then some time is lost trying a reversal once or twice.

For one thing, this post is intended as a “heads up”. We lost time because we didn’t know the skill, but also I’m wondering what are the options available to a team?

1. Change to heal builds for the monks – seems rather drastic.

2. Fast removal of the hex (will still be fairly slow).

3. Replace a classical booner “heal” (say guardian) with a non enchant spell, from healing line, and move some attribute points from protection to heal. I can’t find any heal faster than .75 seconds though.

4. Do nothing. Mend condition and good communication is all that is needed.

Are there any other options I haven’t though of?

Apologies is I missed the obvious and TIA,
--zola

JR · May 02, 2006, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Unless it is part of a fairly hex heavy build, removing it each time wont be much of a problem. Knowing the recycle on it (21 seconds) you should be able to roughly keep track of when it is going to hit, and remove it swiftly.

It's still fairly nasty against a dual booner backline, but personally i'm more concerned about getting blacked out or galed on a spike.

Lord Dark Genie · May 02, 2006, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Removal will be too slow most of the time.
It's immune to removal via Holy Veil =/ (except on pre-veiled targets of course)
Convert/Purge sig are vulnerable to interrupts

Interruption is not really possible, because of the 1s cast. I saw this on a Me/A, interrupting a ~0.6-0.7 second spell is quite hard....

Something like Rend followed by Shadow Shroud+Cover seems quite strong especially against all these dual boon prot teams.

Valerria · May 02, 2006, 01:26 PM // 13:26

I played Me/A in RA with this. I had the luck of running into 4 2-monk teams ina row. I'd put Shroud + Cover on the boon/prot and Arcane Conundrum + Cover on the heal monk and spam Power Return on him.

SaintGreg · May 02, 2006, 04:24 PM // 16:24

I saw a team using adrenal spikes covered by shadow shroud, and the timing of the hex was good enough that by the time you could land a ninja 1 second hex removal, it would be too late to save him. You might get it sometimes, but it will probably be no more reliable than trying to use mend condition to heal through it.

Its a very nasty counter to boon prots, I think the ways of dealing with it would be about like that of gale or blackout spiking. IE. you have a squishie target coming to cast an important hex, interrupt it or just beat down the guy coming in to use it.

Neo-LD · May 06, 2006, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Yesterday we played Crazy Camel Humpers [HUMP], who were using a Shadow Shroud Adrenospike. We had a guest warrior who had played against them earlier that day, so we were fortunate to know exactly what was coming. However, we were still mostly unable to deal with it.

The Shadow Shroud came from a Me/A, and hit just moments before the warriors converged and unloaded. Like the OP said, the only heal on my bar that would work until SS was removed was Mend Condition.

For a while we were able to cope by having our Me/Mo use remove hex; and Mend Condition -> Reversal was usually able to save because luckily the spike was pretty slow. However, then they began to spike the Me/Mo, and being knocked down during the spike = no remove hex = death.

In my opinion Shadow Shroud is a fairly strong skill that will burn through unprepared teams and still be a workable against good teams as long as you spike effectively.

JR · May 06, 2006, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Gift of Health on Boon Prots looks even more interesting now.

Patrograd · May 06, 2006, 03:00 PM // 15:00

I think that a backline of 1 boon and 1 woH/infuser looks even stronger now, especially considering the prevalence of spikes at the moment. This skill just confirms that in my opinion.

Hunter Killer · May 07, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

I think that a backline of 1 boon and 1 woH/infuser looks even stronger now, especially considering the prevalence of spikes at the moment. This skill just confirms that in my opinion.

I agree, and with some of the new healing spells, a healer isn't half bad, though you might need a character in the build with secondary prots such as condition removal/prot spirit for splits.

zola · May 08, 2006, 10:21 AM // 10:21

But isn't a healer hard pressed when it comes to self heals (thinking about splits here)?

Gift of health seems like an option, with healing prayers at whatever is left out of stat points - I'll try this in arena.

I'm also wondering if smite hex may not be an option. One second cast and bad recharge, but the boon + divine bonuses should get to the spike target faster. The smite hex remains marginally useful against other teams.

--zola

JR · May 08, 2006, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by zola

Gift of health seems like an option, with healing prayers at whatever is left out of stat points - I'll try this in arena.

On the subject of attributes; on my GoH Boon Prot, I have been running this:

15/13 Divine Favor (11+1+3) / 11+1+1)
9 Healing Prayers (8+1)
9 Protection Prayers (8+1)
9 Inspiration

Which is a fairly nice attribute split, maximising efficiency.

sir lockt · May 08, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

I was suprised as well first time I encountered the skill, luckily not in GvG. I was wondering how fast a spike usually follows after the skill from above average spike teams? Its a pretty fast spell, but alerts you about 1 sec in advance of a spike, is this a close timing, or is there time to kite?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Dark Genie

Removal will be too slow most of the time.
It's immune to removal via Holy Veil =/ (except on pre-veiled targets of course)
Convert/Purge sig are vulnerable to interrupts

try using hex removals in the mesmer range. Run a Me/x or a X/Me with hex removal... And remeber: its a nice early warning signal for a spike...

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Which is a fairly nice attribute split, maximising efficiency.

Indeed GoH is a nice skill... I like the attribute division you used.

Xasew · May 08, 2006, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir lockt

Try using hex removals in the mesmer range. Run a Me/x or a X/Me with hex removal... And remeber: its a nice early warning signal for a spike...

Me/A

Shatter Ench
Shadow Shroud
Mind Wrack

2 Warriors spike a target, when the first blow hits he gets Shatter Ench, continued by SS and MW to cover it up. No warning, a cover hex and only with 3 skills. Has flexibility, because he still has 4 skillslots to fill(not counting the Res Sig). So I don't think you'll get any kind of warning against good teams.
Also, unless you have Expel Hexes/CoP, it's gonna be tricky to remove SS in time.
Of course there's the normal counter: Healer.

Amras · May 08, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

I had the same problem as a boon prot. We managed to keep the spiked target alive with mend condition, when we didnt overheal ofcourse. Meanwhile a ele with insp hex (we've always had that in our gvg build) would remove the hex and we could entirely save the target with rof or prot spirit. Good communication between the spiked target, the hex remover and the boon prots is critical.
I do think Blessed Light (Elite) is a good counter for shadow shroud.

Kriegar · May 09, 2006, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Healing line and off target hex removal. =)
I've become a very big fan of Empathic Removal and Expel Hexes.

Xiang · May 10, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

This skill can be a problem me as a Booner at first wonderd what the hell is going on but thankgod for revaled hex i got it off but jeeze that was some 7 seconds of hell

TomD22 · May 11, 2006, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Because of this hex pretty much every team i GvG with has one of their boon prots carrying infuse health now (which is good vs spikes anyway, not really essential before but now deals with spikes using that hex very nicely). Gift of health has also been experimented with, but it's a bit slow and means splitting the attributes.

Draygo Korvan · May 11, 2006, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Maintaining Holy Veil on spike suseptable members also works. Though that would require good communication and fast removal reflexes. Though the main point of HV is to make any hex arrive late, thus ruining the timeing of the enemies spike. The other option is to shut down the Shadow Shoud caster through Edenial or plain caster shutdown. Using the old metagame is going to make fighting teams with Shadow Shroud difficult, but still possible.

Shifty Five Monk · May 11, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

One simple skill can solve this problem. It is an easy to cap monk elite that I found yesterday. It is called Blessed Light, its attribute is devine favor so you don't have to move points around if ur boon prot, just find a non elite energy managment skill. Pretty much it heals target ally for about 100 (13 devine), not to mention DF bonus. The kill part of this skill is when cast on a ally (including yourself) it removes 1 hex and 1 condition. Also, only a 1/4 casting time and a 5 second recharge! Faster recharge then pretty much any other hex removal.

So you if u run into a shadow shrowd build like that that skill can easy counter it as long as the other team is not packing signet of humilty or something like that. Hope that helped.

Shifty

JR · May 11, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shifty Five Monk

One simple skill can solve this problem. It is an easy to cap monk elite that I found yesterday. It is called Blessed Light, its attribute is devine favor so you don't have to move points around if ur boon prot, just find a non elite energy managment skill.

That is the problem though; Boon Prots really need that Elite energy management skill, due to maintaining Divine Boon. You could take Blessed Light and counter Shadow Shroud fairly well, but it's a bit of a gimp to your monk against any other build.