Curse

Teh Mighty Warrior · May 16, 2006, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

I've won HoH once, and I'm rank 1. I know all the maps inside and out. After playing for like 56 times in PvP (I have 56 fame), I think I would have learned something. But Ranked people don't really care. To them, you're still a n00b.

Before I post this, I am not trying to make fun or degrade you in any way. I am just trying to prove a point.

If you know the maps inside and out, have won HoH and cannot make it into ranked groups because you are a n00b, why don't you get with other unranked players who are just like you? Then, instead of r6+ groups holding halls, unranked groups would rule Halls...

Demesis · May 16, 2006, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Mighty Warrior

Before I post this, I am not trying to make fun or degrade you in any way. I am just trying to prove a point.

If you know the maps inside and out, have won HoH and cannot make it into ranked groups because you are a n00b, why don't you get with other unranked players who are just like you? Then, instead of r6+ groups holding halls, unranked groups would rule Halls...

The problem is, you don't see a lot of unranked groups in the HA

If I am lucky enough, I will join an unranked group if they are around.

That's how my little story started with that reverse-rejection of a ranked player when I joined that unranked group :O

maraxusofk · May 16, 2006, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Well if u cant beat the rank discrimination, the best thing to do is to do ur best to get some fame. I was sure pissed as hell 4 months ago before i hit r6 but after all this time, i feel like i gained an immense sense of accomplishment, moreso than finding a 15>50 req 8 fellblade back then. (yes i farmed pve also)

luilui · May 16, 2006, 01:23 PM // 13:23

I found it kind of annoying to read this thread. It looks to me a lot of ppl (those unranked/low rank players) dont understand what HA is about.

PvP is highly competitive. If u r a casual player then plz get used to losing. There's always some hardcore players there to kick ur ass, becoz they put in 100 times more effort than u.

If u consider urself to be a hardcore player then stop moaning/complainting/whining, go think about why u lose, dont expect to join a high rank group and have ppl holding ur hands teaching u how to play.
Part of the fun of PvP is figuring out the solution by urself (probably the same to everything else).

If u think ur individual skill the most important thing then u r wrong, it's more important to know good players, be recognized as a good player, getting into different circle/team (but of course u cant do that if u r not good). Your friend list/guild list show ur real rank. Getting to know good player is a huge part of the game, dont expect that to happen after 2 days in HA. Maybe that's not what it said on the box but soicalizing skill is just as important.

Talk about rank discrimination. I'm sorry demesis, but i think u r a good example of why rank tell something about a player. A r1 player who claim himself know the maps inside out yet have no idea of the fame system, it's like a guy says he's flunet in english but dont know what 'car' means. If I'm going to make a pug, u r probably the type that i would avoid and apparently this rank system help me with this. And how am i suppose to make a pug without this rank system? spend 5 min interviewing each player that's LFG in the district?

Demesis · May 16, 2006, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by luilui

I found it kind of annoying to read this thread. It looks to me a lot of ppl (those unranked/low rank players) dont understand what HA is about.

PvP is highly competitive. If u r a casual player then plz get used to losing. There's always some hardcore players there to kick ur ass, becoz they put in 100 times more effort than u.

If u consider urself to be a hardcore player then stop moaning/complainting/whining, go think about why u lose, dont expect to join a high rank group and have ppl holding ur hands teaching u how to play.
Part of the fun of PvP is figuring out the solution by urself (probably the same to everything else).

If u think ur individual skill the most important thing then u r wrong, it's more important to know good players, be recognized as a good player, getting into different circle/team (but of course u cant do that if u r not good). Your friend list/guild list show ur real rank. Getting to know good player is a huge part of the game, dont expect that to happen after 2 days in HA. Maybe that's not what it said on the box but soicalizing skill is just as important.

Talk about rank discrimination. I'm sorry demesis, but i think u r a good example of why rank tell something about a player. A r1 player who claim himself know the maps inside out yet have no idea of the fame system, it's like a guy says he's flunet in english but dont know what 'car' means. If I'm going to make a pug, u r probably the type that i would avoid and apparently this rank system help me with this. And how am i suppose to make a pug without this rank system? spend 5 min interviewing each player that's LFG in the district?

I don't really take kindly to that flame there...

I think it was unecessary and I didn't consider myself to be moaning or complaining at all. I never asked for a change, I never said I hated ranked players.

I never complained about losing. I'm a casual player and I'm used to losing in HA. I just wanted to share an interesting story I had when I joined a group. If I did complain, it was about finding a PUG. They are hard to find in the HA since Factions got released

I'm sorry that I am too preoccupied with learning the maps and trying to kindly help teach other newbies how to PvP that I completely neglected to learn about how the ranking system works.

I'm sorry I didn't get to know other high ranked people and kissed their ass so that I could be in their friends list and in their PvP group/guild. I didn't know that sucking up to other people is more important than actual teamwork and skill.

I'm sorry I'm 'flunet' in English and don't know what a car is.

I'm sorry that I am such a n00b and invoked your 733T 15k, r999 wrath on me. Please, don't kick my ass, because after all, you did put in 100x more effort than me.

luilui · May 16, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

i'm sorry demesis if i have offenced u. But if u r not moaning then my post is not really referring to u.

I just found u r a good example of how the ranking system can be useful. Didnt want to mention ur name, but i think it'll be more offensive if i dont.

U dont need to be sorry, after all it seems i'm the one that upset u. (Maybe i'm a bit harsh earlier......, but i'll probably stick to what i said and perhaps should say in a nicer way.......)

nohooiam · May 16, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

those with low rank need to look into why they have such a hard time gaining fame as compared to those with a higher rank.

if other people can do it, then how come YOU can't do it?

and i don't think joining r6/9 pugs have anything to do with it.

Mo Joe Joe Joe · May 19, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

There really is nothing more to say on this subject as it has all been said in this thread and many others. But, I would like to add an analogy for the PVE folks;

Let's say you are farming UW with a necro/invinci team and grabbed a PUG partner. Jus think of an emote that would show how many ecto a character has collected. Would you rather team with the guy that has collected 2 ecto or the guy that has collected 200??? The guy with 200 may or may not be a more talented player, but odds are his experience will result in more loot. I know that I am much better at farming UW now, rather than when i was learning the ropes.

Would this emote be a good thing or bad thing? Well the experienced guys would say "Yea U bet!"; the new guys would whine about how will they learn.

The answer for the new guys is friends, guildies and ohhh so rare nice strangers. I have taught many necros and monks from my guild how to farm UW and a few PUGs along the way when I was feeling nice (ya it happens about once a month). Good luck to all those new to HoH; it is rough. It is a big challenge and that is why you are doing it instead of grinding out some more PVE missions that you have prolly beaten many times before.

Sarevok Thordin · May 19, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by nohooiam

those with low rank need to look into why they have such a hard time gaining fame as compared to those with a higher rank.

if other people can do it, then how come YOU can't do it?

and i don't think joining r6/9 pugs have anything to do with it.

It's because of the terrible paradox that appears to have infected GWs. To gain rank, you need rank.

Sure, if you can get a guild/connections, you can be gradualy get rank to the point you can get bambi and go it alone. Or you were one of the earliest rank gainers when GWs was out.

But if you are new and desperate to goto HoH. Be prepared for a worse task than grinding.

scars of insanity · May 20, 2006, 05:02 AM // 05:02

it seems the unranked people think their only chance is to join r3+ group.

1) Join a guild with 20+ active members
2) Look up popular builds online (or make your own) and start a group of your own
3) Ask members of your guild if they can come play your selected build type
4) HAVE ACCESS TO A TS/VENT SERVER and have a mic (you have no idea how much this helps you)
5) Find people in dist 1 HA to come play your build there will be some people there who can play it. If you spend more than 5 minutes looking for one member switch districts. (Balanced groups will take 30min - 2 hours to form while iway and spikes take 15min-1hour MAKE SURE YOU AND YOUR GROUPIES HAVE TIME)
6) Tell everyone what to do agaisnt the 3 most popular builds Iway, balanced, and spikes.
7) Enter Mission and have fun.

Note: most pugs suck (even r3/6) start playing with your guild more often they will learn how you play as you will with them. if you can get a regular 8 man team from your guild you will own halls and youl be at even r6 in no time.

master_of_puppets · May 20, 2006, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by luilui

Maybe that's not what it said on the box but soicalizing skill is just as important.

OMG! The box lied! How dare they! I'm suing Anet for 50 million dollars for fraud.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

If I did complain, it was about finding a PUG. They are hard to find in the HA since Factions got released

Thats true, not only finding pugs is hard, but also with ur guild, factions came out so every1' s off bein a pve nub, u'd be like "Hey ~ come to HA dist 1 were doin balanced" and they'd be like "nah, im doing wang pang temple mission right now" or whatever, chinese names all sound the same to me so im not even gonna bother tryin to memorize the names of the places.

Lando Griffen · May 22, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

When my guild does HA, we are typically short one to three players and need to get pick-ups. This number makes for a not so time consuming process of getting the additional people we need. I can only imagine the pain that would be necessary to form a group from scratch. We advertise for r3+, but we take r1 or r2 players with us all the time. The main requirement for my guild is players who have vent, will run the build we ask for (all skills and attributes), and are able to follow instructions from the group leader. Most of our pick up players have microphones, but this is not always the case.

The best part is that unranked players are almost always thrilled to be with our group and are very open to following instructions and suggestions.

Hey, I played with you guys a few times when I was unranked

normally got at least 20 fame in a run, followed directions, and did alright. I've noticed recently that most of you guys are r6 now, and I saw you win halls recently. Congrats on that.

NoHomework · May 30, 2006, 08:09 AM // 08:09

I hate to stir up an aging thread on an ancient topic, but I feel the urge to say that any numerical value i've seen used to measure a players skill is a piss-poor substitute for actually watching them perform well in PvP.

I have 179 fame, 10 months playing for 1200 hours, 400k faction. These numbers are MEANINGLESS 100 percent meaningless. I refuse to listen to anybody that would have me believe otherwise. Saying these numbers represent the likelyhood that somebody will be useful is bullcrap. Somebody recruiting for a pug has NO IDEA how any of these figures added up. I could have henchwayd for months for every 179 points of my fame. I could have spammed WTS WTB in ascalon for 1000 hours, I could have ground 400k faction using a wammo in RA. What really happened was I RAd with almost every character imaginable, spending maybe half my time PvPing, creating my own gimmick builds and stealing other people's. I played in stretches, so staying in a guild or a circle of friends for GvG or HA was impossible.

So now I am back playing GW trying to get into a good guild with chemistry or get into HA for some fame. NOBODY should believe either of my stories, because the possibilities are endless. 179 fame 1200 hours 400k faction is like a 3 word snippet from the Bible: "Oh... that sounds like uh... Luke.. I guess."

What people should believe is in giving me 15 minutes of their time. And after underworld if they aren't satisfied with me, do what I would do as group leader, kick me.

I'd also like to address some suggestions that have been made to me in my quest to elbow my way into to the "upper crust" of PvP that is just way too cool for me, allegedly. "Make own grup nub" says you.

So I make my own pug. A hex degen group of my own design. I get numerous whispers applying to join my pug. Some say "What rank r u? ah... nvm" After many similar turn downs I manage to put together 5 people. The 5th one says "no tainted?? weak....." and leaves. My other 4 members follow him. What... the f-.

"Fck pugs!" I say, determined to gain some recognition, some prestige for knowing a thing or two about PvP, y'know? So somebody tells me to make a guild. I spam HA, I spam RA, I interview briefly anybody that will apply to try and detect SOME knowledge of guild wars. Half the people that respond to my recruitment spam say things like "Umm wut is degen dewd??" the other half are the guys saying "What rank are u? 2?? ROFL nothx bai". After 3 days of recruiting I manage to get 3 people. 2 leave within hours of joining. What... the f-.

So, following a friends advice who has a successful guild of his own (one with players in it that I don't like hence why I don't GvG with them) I go back to HA... to try and make some friends at least that know how to PvP. Honestly, if I can't launch this guild soon with at least 8 members that understand the game, I will feel like I have spent 10 months on guild wars doing f-ing nothing. And honestly... I guess I have. I don't have a good guild with good chemistry, I don't have any fame, nobody knows my name lol.

I am like a fcking cripple obsessed with being a track coach. The aspiring coach knows PLENTY about how to run and how to manage a sucessful team, but everybody looks at him and thinks "rofl he can't run...." when running has nothing to do with coaching a track team. Just like getting rank 9 has nothing to do with being a good guild wars player.

But I think I know the root of the problem. The guild wars grandfathers all have their r6+ friends, maybe even r12 friends that they have played with since the beginning. They all have a good understanding of the game and if they wanted to could win a few together. But since the vets have a large pool of high ranking and also good players to draw upon for PvP, I really don't think the vets have a f-ing CLUE what some of the new blood high rankers are like. I estimate 3/4 of the people I have spoke to while trying to put PUGs together in HA, and trying to make my own guild(S!! i tried making my own guild twice), r3-9 players really aren't any different from players randomly sampled from the entire guild wars player base in terms of being knowledgeable about PvP. For example... an r9 applied to my last guild. He said he enjoyed playing warriors. So to see how well he knew the skills available to warriors I asked him to come up with a build to match a theme of AoE skills. It took me 5 minutes to explain what I meant by AoE. So he goes off to think. I expect him to come back with cyclone axe or hundred blades or fear me. Anything AoE, and I would have been impressed enough to let him in. He says he would be W/R with power attack, healsignet, bonnetis, troll unguent, RODGORTS INVOCATION!, and a couple of other skills I can't remember

So I point out to the r9 that that build sucks, especially for HA which I asked him to make the build for because he has all those self heals. I also pointed out that rodgorts invocation is an elementalist skill. He flipped out and started rubbing it in my face about how I was r2 and he was r9 and how much better he was at PvP lol. But honestly when I try really hard, I can think of 2 players that are r6+ that I know personally are good.

Sorry for the long post, and hopefully players will take it upon themselves to resolve the issue of rank discrimination. When it comes to HA there is no reason in the world not to test out some new blood one at a time as long as they don't say things like "what is degen?" or say they will take trolls bonnettis and healsig into HA.

dgb · May 30, 2006, 08:43 AM // 08:43

[QUOTE=NoHomework]I hate to stir up an aging thread on an ancient topic, but I feel the urge to say that any numerical value i've seen used to measure a players skill is a piss-poor substitute for actually watching them perform well in PvP.

I have 179 fame, 10 months playing for 1200 hours, 400k faction. These numbers are MEANINGLESS 100 percent meaningless. I refuse to listen to anybody that would have me believe otherwise. Saying these numbers represent the likelyhood that somebody will be useful is bullcrap. Somebody recruiting for a pug has NO IDEA how any of these figures added up. I could have henchwayd for months for every 179 points of my fame. I could have spammed WTS WTB in ascalon for 1000 hours, I could have ground 400k faction using a wammo in RA./QUOTE]

And this is utterly false. Sure, you can't say anything definate about a player by their rank alone. But when I'm using what limited time I have available to HA, I want to maximise my return. That means playing probabilities and on average R12>R9>R6>R3>R0. I know I have no idea how you acquired that fame. But I know that there's a better chance of a R6 having a clue than the average unranked PUG and that's what's important.

dgb · May 30, 2006, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoHomework

I hate to stir up an aging thread on an ancient topic, but I feel the urge to say that any numerical value i've seen used to measure a players skill is a piss-poor substitute for actually watching them perform well in PvP.

I have 179 fame, 10 months playing for 1200 hours, 400k faction. These numbers are MEANINGLESS 100 percent meaningless. I refuse to listen to anybody that would have me believe otherwise. Saying these numbers represent the likelyhood that somebody will be useful is bullcrap. Somebody recruiting for a pug has NO IDEA how any of these figures added up. I could have henchwayd for months for every 179 points of my fame. I could have spammed WTS WTB in ascalon for 1000 hours, I could have ground 400k faction using a wammo in RA.

And this is utterly false. Sure, you can't say anything definate about a player by their rank alone. But when I'm using what limited time I have available to HA, I want to maximise my return. That means playing probabilities and on average R12>R9>R6>R3>R0. I know I have no idea how you acquired that fame. But I know that there's a better chance of a R6 having a clue than the average unranked PUG and that's what's important.

NoHomework · May 30, 2006, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Having a clue about what? The thought that you can ask an r9 to play say, interrupt ranger for you and expect him to have a clue is laughable. There are thousands of different things he could have done. For all you know today he woke up and decided to try rangers for the first time, maybe even trying interrupting for the first time.

Play your chances if you want, but I maintain r9 doesn't make a good anything but faction farmer when it comes to randomly selected players. Farming it with IWAY will make you a good IWAYer, farming it with a spike build will make you a good spiker, etc etc.

The solution I think is to start inviting people that simply fit the skill bar you are looking for and trying them out for a round. If they are good add them to the friends list, if they aren't, don't. And believe me, I know how complicated this is because I am in the process of piecing together a friends list.

So if you do this enough my friend. You will have a friends list full of good players to choose from so you don't have to spam at ALL and just end up disappointed in your swarm of r3-r9 retards that reply to your spam. How's that for maximizing your time?

dgb · May 30, 2006, 09:43 AM // 09:43

You say you know how complicated it is but then say it's maximising your time? Sorry, I'm not going to sink that time investment in for a form of PVP that is for the most pox. It's full of gimicky FotM crap. It's rare that I want to play HA, but when I do I want to maximise my time.

If you want to be a hardcore HA player then your approach probably makes sense. On the other hand you're spending most of your time in HA. If you like that sort of stuff or want to chase the rank then that's fine, but I'll stick to a form that's actually interesting.