Curse

OverlordTyrael · Mar 26, 2006, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickyballs

*cough* Epppiiidddeeemicccc

Well, not many HA builds incorporate epidemic, but enemy mesmers/trappers can spread conditions pretty fast (and I guess assassins now as well).

I was thinking of perhaps trying a build similar to IWAY, but without IWAY running W/E shockers instead (now that we have skills like berzerker's stance, that's actually a viable combo).

speed light · Mar 26, 2006, 01:44 PM // 13:44

In many situations, its how the players execute their game that makes the difference. This thread is developing too much into... wat skils & equipment to bring...not how to react.. In Iway, the build is very transparent . Ur opponents, whoever they are, know wat u have... all the time.However, i reckon that most iway players dk ur opponents' build as well as ur opponent know urs. The question to address in how to play a good iway is.... How to react to different types of enemy builds.

1)If you're fighting a balanced build, Warriors should be assigned to each monk to put pressure on them, unless the decision is made to spike a single target (with charged up Exec/Evisc.) Warders are also a priority target, as WaF and WaM can disable an IWAY team quickly.

I dont know about this part.If u spread amongst the monks... are u able to consistently drop the prot 1st? I am of the view... all 4 warriors should go on the prot monk... and warriors keep ur eyes on the prot monk even after he dies..many iway die cos they are not observant enuff to drop the prot monk again after the prot monk is ressed.

2)Nobody talks about trappers maintian NR. NR is the single most important spirit to maintain outside altar control matches. Surprise that there is no mention of it yet.Yet the absence of NR is soo prevalent.

3)Less important to control bridge than fight together. Dont go 1 on 1 against IWAY. Basic common sense, but too many fail to follow. Talking about r9++ iway, btw.Against IWAY, good to protect ur necs (putrid /profane/ taint ... the absence or presence of it will tilt ur match).... less so when against balance build.

4)When warriors get heavy conditions... draw urself out of the fight... alot dont. they carry on fighting.Happens when ppl dont watch their own healthbar.

5)Courtyard... I see alot of iway take initiative to cap 1st... always a good idea? able to defend against the other 2 teams? (16 vs 8?)Like to be 1st victim of eoe bomb in last 2 mins? Like to be ganked throughout the 10 full mins? I dont understand why they do it... U can cap 1st... only if at least one other side is extremely noobish / stupid.If I cant figure if your opponents are good or lousy when looking at their names... I prefer not to cap.Against 2 good balanced team... usually I hope the strong side will cap 1st...

6)I reckon that many iway die to balanced builds where there are trappers+ frozen+ wards + prot.... I would like to know how ppl play against such builds properly

lord of shadow · Mar 26, 2006, 02:30 PM // 14:30

an advanced iway group will take frozen on one trapper to press home an advantage when several opposing members are down.
try not to fight people inside wards (thats what traps and MS are for) but instead pick off the people outside them.

speed light · Mar 26, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

1)They wont kite outside the wards if they have wards.How do u drop afew members of opposing team?

2)N/e will be interupted to death by mesmers, MS wont get off

Kabale · Mar 27, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Wow whoever posted 90% of what is on GuildWiki about IWAY has no clue about what they're talking about.

The Real Roy Keane · Mar 27, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightrunner

QFT. Can't say I approve of IWAY (never played it) but it's biggest weakness is conditions. Blind, weakness, and cripple all hurt your DPS badly, and it's not very hard to spread those around your warriors.

Aegis chains and Ward Against Melee hurt more. Why do people keep coming out with all these obscure,gimped, over-specific builds to counter IWAY when those two skills are perfectly sufficient?

Byron · Mar 27, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane

Aegis chains and Ward Against Melee hurt more. Why do people keep coming out with all these obscure,gimped, over-specific builds to counter IWAY when those two skills are perfectly sufficient?

Yes, those skills are why most solid balanced teams eat IWAYs. Plop a fertile season down and your healing woes are solved, get a frozen soil down as well and the IWAY power is pretty much halved. If you can get a trapper in there with dust and barbed traps in addition, the power of IWAY is negated almost entirely. Mesmers eat trappers, Shock warriors eat necros. Martyr can't do everything, I'm afraid.

Now if we could only get Mr Roy Keane to stop getting those err 7 at the beginning of the matches, maybe we could beat IWAY.

**EDIT = Migraine on Martyr trapper, ftw.

OverlordTyrael · Mar 28, 2006, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane

Aegis chains and Ward Against Melee hurt more. Why do people keep coming out with all these obscure,gimped, over-specific builds to counter IWAY when those two skills are perfectly sufficient?

My friend was running an extremely successful build to counter exactly that; they brought a fire ele with them and when the balanced team balled up in a ward, down came the meteor shower, which started the EoE bomb that wiped them out. As for Aegis chains; most groups in HA are not nearly coordinated enough to run them, though when they are done correctly, they can be extremely annoying, especially when coupled with a WaM. The addition of better enchantment removal in Factions should counter that quite nicely however, but then again, there are some pretty obvious counters to IWAY in Factions as well.

wheel · Mar 28, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabale

Wow whoever posted 90% of what is on GuildWiki about IWAY has no clue about what they're talking about.

Then Edit it and fix it yourself.

Lord Iowerth · Mar 29, 2006, 02:18 AM // 02:18

I've been having some decent success playing with IWAY teams as the Tainted necro ... I've found that we usually roll over a balanced team (that's not using wards) if I can get a well of profane up.

Before I continue, i'd like to list the build I use, so you guys can tweak and give suggestions (if you don't mind helping). I use:

N/E
Attributes
16 Death
9 Air
6 Water (for Maelstrom) or 6 fire (for M. Shower)
Rest in soul reaping (I think it comes to 9 or so with a minor rune)

Skills
Well of the Profane
Well of Suffering
Consume Corpse
Tainted Flesh {E}
Maelstrom/ M. Shower
Windborne Speed
Whirlwind
Res Sig

I have no issues with keeping the party Tainted ... and for those wondering, Whirlwind is a great "Get off me warrior pressure builds" skill that I threw in ... but I would love suggestions on 2 things primarily:

1) Meteor Shower or Maelstrom? In my experience, both are just about equally as effective ... Maelstrom is a little harder to notice going on (if it didn't drop right on your head) but M. Shower has the nice knockdown effect that comes in handy sometimes (which can interrupt any skill, not just spells like Maelstrom), but Maelstrom recharges quicker and casts a second faster.

2) I find it extraordinarily frustrating when an opposing necro or fast-cast Me/N gets corpses before I do. I've turned the tide of battle a few times by throwing out a well-placed Well of the Profane. Granted, i'm never going to beat a Consume Corpse on a Mesmer primary with fast casting, but i'm wondering if I should switch up the corpse-cleanup skill to putrid. If I can't make wells out of the corpses, I sure as hell don't want a person on the other team getting them either. I've found (quite frequently) that using Consume Corpse happens to teleport me smack into the middle of trouble, and not away from it.

seifer402 · Mar 29, 2006, 10:11 AM // 10:11

im kinda new at HA but i would imagine that maelstrom would be better because it interrupts more often than MS

now i have a question, this may sound nooby but why does iway need 2 EoEs? ive asked a few people and no one seems to be able to tell me.

The Real Roy Keane · Mar 29, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Because the first EoE gets pulled down fairly quickly.

capitalist · Mar 29, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by seifer402

im kinda new at HA but i would imagine that maelstrom would be better because it interrupts more often than MS

now i have a question, this may sound nooby but why does iway need 2 EoEs? ive asked a few people and no one seems to be able to tell me.

And Spirits are the lifeblood of IWAY.

Ronin Rangerin · Mar 29, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Consume Corpse on a iway tainted is not good. You often consume yourlself into all kinds of danger. If you really want a heal me take soul feast. Meteor shower > maelstrom. Harder to get out of and better when trying to cap an alter. Also gale >whirlwind for many reasons. Interupting ghostlys, supporting warriors, and to shake the warriors off. All that said, stop playing iway

Lord Iowerth · Mar 29, 2006, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin Rangerin

Consume Corpse on a iway tainted is not good. You often consume yourlself into all kinds of danger.

Tell me about it!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin Rangerin

If you really want a heal me take soul feast.

Well, the heal/energy from CC was just a bonus: I mainly used the skill to deprive the enemy necros from corpses, if they were using wells too. I thought about necrotic transversal, but it has that same "Teleporting" problem that CC does, and is only 1/4 second faster casting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin Rangerin

Meteor shower > maelstrom. Harder to get out of and better when trying to cap an alter. Also gale >whirlwind for many reasons. Interupting ghostlys, supporting warriors, and to shake the warriors off. All that said, stop playing iway

I was using gale, but having 2 skills that cause exhaustion was starting to wear me down a bit ... then again, that's when I had maelstrom (which was cast more than M. Shower) so i'll give that a shot.

And don't get the impression that i'm a rabid IWAY'er: all but 4 or 5 of the 60-something fame I have has been from monking in balanced groups

It is proportionally easier to get in an unranked IWAY group than any other. I know I play well, and would be an asset to a team ... unfortunately (and lets not turn this into a "rank" thread) noone else can be assured of that until I can throw a glowing animal-head out in front of me. I've accepted this as the norm, and i'm not going to waste my breath arguing about whether or not it's discrimination, etc. It will be much easier and faster to just earn the fame myself.

Also, I see you have Ronin in your name, which is the name of my guild, and that quite obviously makes you intelligent and handsome ...

Yunas Ele · Mar 31, 2006, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord of shadow

an advanced iway group will take frozen on one trapper to press home an advantage when several opposing members are down.
try not to fight people inside wards (thats what traps and MS are for) but instead pick off the people outside them.

Frozen on a trapper is the worst thing you can do. With such high wilderness, it'll last a long time, and thats bad. The tides of battle can easilly turn any time when playing IWAY. You don't wanna be caught with more down then the enemy when your OWN frozen soil is up. I can only wish you luck when you're caught in ths situation.

Frozen soil is best on a warrior. A nice 42 second frozen soil does the trick. You put it down when the enemy is down a few people, and your team is full up. If you need to keep it down constantly, its not a problem, since frozen has a 30 second cooldown.

Personally though, I dislike frozen soil and almost never take it on my IWAY teams, but it CAN be useful in certain situations if used correctly on a warrior (I can't stress on a warrior enough... trapper with frozen is bad...)

Sabe · Mar 31, 2006, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Help me please....was wondering if you use well of the profane surely it would strip your warriors of Tainted flesh/Death Nova/Order of pain/Dark fury/Healing seed/Healing hands?

Is that a good idea coz thats a lot of enchants!

art_ · Mar 31, 2006, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabe

Help me please....was wondering if you use well of the profane surely it would strip your warriors of Tainted flesh/Death Nova/Order of pain/Dark fury/Healing seed/Healing hands?

Is that a good idea coz thats a lot of enchants!

Quote:

Well of the Profane: Exploit nearest corpse to create a Well of the Profane at its location. For 8-18 seconds, foes in that area are stripped of all Enchantments and cannot be the target of further Enchantments. (50% failure chance with Death Magic 4 or less)

It doesn't affect your team.

Nerdy · Mar 31, 2006, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yunas Ele

Frozen on a trapper is the worst thing you can do. With such high wilderness, it'll last a long time, and thats bad. The tides of battle can easilly turn any time when playing IWAY. You don't wanna be caught with more down then the enemy when your OWN frozen soil is up. I can only wish you luck when you're caught in ths situation.

Frozen soil is best on a warrior. A nice 42 second frozen soil does the trick. You put it down when the enemy is down a few people, and your team is full up. If you need to keep it down constantly, its not a problem, since frozen has a 30 second cooldown.

Personally though, I dislike frozen soil and almost never take it on my IWAY teams, but it CAN be useful in certain situations if used correctly on a warrior (I can't stress on a warrior enough... trapper with frozen is bad...)

Yeah totally agree. I've seen frozen backfire on IWAY groups too many times.

Talking about IWAY groups, your modded IWAY is pretty similar to what our group was playing a few weeks back.

In fact, I played oath shot trapper/spammer the other night with you but didn't realise you were running a fame farming service at the time.

Sabe · Mar 31, 2006, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by art_

It doesn't affect your team.

Ha why dont i try reading the skill description. Maybe I was thinking of how natures renewal used to work or then again maybe not!!

I'm just dumb.

Thx tho.