Curse

Isileth · Jun 03, 2006, 02:07 AM // 02:07

My guild has just started hitting HoH, obviousely we arent great yet but we have done Arenas for a long time. In the few games we have played we managed to beat an IWAY team, slaughter a balanced team and had some very close games with the rest. The problem is spikes. Obviousely we know which skills to use to counter spikes but its just it seems impossible to react fast enough! Even if the spike is spread across 2 seconds its very rare that anyone has time to target and cast something that would save us. Is there anyway to spot who they are going for or tips you could offer? Thanks!

Thom · Jun 03, 2006, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Interrupt the spells doing damage.

B Ephekt · Jun 03, 2006, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Aside from the interrupts, you can kill one of the spikers and reduce their damage output. Or you can just yell at your infuser until he gets better.

Isileth · Jun 03, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Yes that is what we try to do but if we miss it or even a few get through they can still cause a lot of pain. I really want help on what happens if they do get through.

Thom · Jun 03, 2006, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Mistakes happen when playing (and running) spikes. You have to be quick to rez up and continue your gameplan. Kill as many spikes as possible with heals and interrupts, but also attack their build. Sometimes you want to spend the first few minutes controlling the spike, than hit their build where you feel it is weak.

Wasteland Squidget · Jun 03, 2006, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Figure out which of your characters can effectively shut down a spiker on the opposing team. Maybe your elementalist can Gale them down to interrupt the spike, maybe your mesmer can deny their energy, maybe your warriors can get in their face with Shock, whatever. Likewise, look over the basic HoH spike builds and figure out how many people they can afford to lose.

Then when the battle begins have each disruption character get on an individual spiker and ensure they don't get anything off. If spikes continue to happen, you should at least be able to figure out why they're getting through.

This is a pretty good 'basic' way to play against a spike team, and should allow you to learn more about their strengths and weaknesses.

Xasew · Jun 03, 2006, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Obviously we know which skills to use to counter spikes but its just it seems impossible to react fast enough! Even if the spike is spread across 2 seconds its very rare that anyone has time to target and cast something that would save us.

Get better Monks? Get a Monk with Infuse Health? Get interrupts?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Is there anyway to spot who they are going for or tips you could offer? Thanks!

Warriors often have the easiest time spotting when they're getting spiked, so they should be able to call it often on Vent/TS. Use common sense: If you see both of your Monks in your backline out of the spike's reach, it already cuts down the possiblity of those getting spiked from 8 to 6. Keep pressure up and stick a Distracting Blow on one of your Warriors.

Isileth · Jun 03, 2006, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Again you seem to miss the point. Whenever we try to spike we always seem to hit a target with protective spirit on and/or other anti spike measures. They seem to know instantly who we will target! Its not that they have stopped anyone spiking hence the reason i dont want advise on stopping spikes, I want to know how to predict who they will hit or is it just a lot of experience is guessing who will be next?

art_ · Jun 03, 2006, 11:57 AM // 11:57

"Whenever we try to spike we always seem to hit a target with protective spirit on and/or other anti spike measures"

Enchantment Removal is key

shardfenix · Jun 03, 2006, 12:00 PM // 12:00

infuse health + good reflexes > spike groups

Xasew · Jun 03, 2006, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Again you seem to miss the point. Whenever we try to spike we always seem to hit a target with protective spirit on and/or other anti spike measures. They seem to know instantly who we will target! Its not that they have stopped anyone spiking hence the reason i dont want advise on stopping spikes, I want to know how to predict who they will hit or is it just a lot of experience is guessing who will be next?

If you're talking about caster/ranger spike, your opponent should never be able to predict who you are spiking next, it's one of the things caster/ranger spikes need to learn to do. And you need to have enchantment removal, too.
If you see all enemies wanding the same target before spiking, it'll probably be the wanded target that's gonna get spiked. That's a bad example though, because that's so noobish... If they kill someone, they'll probably try to spike him again soon, because they'll try to stack some DP.

Predicting warrior spike is easier, because you can see where they run.

TheOneMephisto · Jun 03, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

If you see a bunch of rangers pull their bows in unison, they're about to spike. Also, they're about to spike whoever they're all turning towards.

Just stuff like that. Also, you can watch stuff like th orders necro or whatever they are using for hints on when they're going to spike.

Isileth · Jun 04, 2006, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Ok thanks for all the replys. Yeah we figured out we gave it away a bit by who we where targetting so now we will delibberately target someone else and as soon as the monk starts casting we switch over to a different target and spike before anything has time to recharge.

makosi · Jun 04, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

If you're running balanced or a degen team, try Fertile Season to make it harder to spike for blood or rangers. Alternatively, run a Vital Blessing bonder.

Kabale · Jun 05, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

It all depends on what you have in your team. If you don't have any interrupts and you are a spike yourself, then it's just a case of who the better spiker/caller is. If you're balanced you should have some kind of counter that you'll have to use as much as possible.

If spike is beating you a lot, you have to make skill sacrifices in your build to counter them.

JR · Jun 05, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabale

If spike is beating you a lot, you have to make skill sacrifices in your build to counter them.

Or it could be a problem with your strategy of approaching them. Splitting or being super aggressive right from the start are probably two of the better options against average spike builds.

Patrograd · Jun 05, 2006, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Again I have to come back to the tactics used by the top few sides when they deal with spikes. Almost exclusively I would say that the top 15 in my experience will counter spikes with pressure and disruption. I have never seen one of these sides split when they face spike, unless they were the kind of side that would split anyway, like EviL or WM.

I wont pretend that this is the easy solution though. The easy solution is a soul twister with union and shelter :-) (or splitting). Disruption takes alot of skill and practise, especially against a really good spike team.

JR · Jun 05, 2006, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

Again I have to come back to the tactics used by the top few sides when they deal with spikes. Almost exclusively I would say that the top 15 in my experience will counter spikes with pressure and disruption. I have never seen one of these sides split when they face spike, unless they were the kind of side that would split anyway, like EviL or WM.

Agreed, we have had this discussion before and it is my fault for badly wording my previous post.

Splitting is basicly the option to take if you *can't* face the spike 8 vs 8; if for whatever reason your build doesn't have enough disruption to stop them dropping people, or your infuser is lagged... whatever.

ghostof · Jun 05, 2006, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Try and body block and trap a spiker to be killed. Force them ball up.

Blood Spikes have gotten tougher with ritualists in the mix. They hold alters really well.

If your Iway *gulp* make sure your orders and taint stay out of spike range and have your taint do his corpse duties. Well of Profane absolutely can own a spike team. As can running an order of apostasy necro. Iway is rush and kill and hope to god you win lol. Hope that there fs works against them.

Interrupt the aegis chain. Shutdown the ritualist if possible. Have your elementalist in balanced bring rust to slow spikes and rezzing.

"Shadow Strike and Barbed Signet both take two seconds to cast, leaving them wide open to interruptions. Area interruptions such as Cry of Frustration, Choking Gas, Thunderclap, Earthquake, and Maelstrom can be effective not only at preventing a spike but also at throwing off the rhythm. Good Blood Spike teams learn not to remain close.

The Blood Spike build is very energy hungry. It depends on something dying nearby every 15-20 seconds to fuel it. Energy denial with spells like Energy Surge can be effective after the first spike or two because the Blood Spikers probably won't have enough energy left. " -Guild Wiki

On that note for your Corpse control mesmer has anyone thought of bringing well of profane?

Played against IQ's smite in Ha last night and got own'd by it.

ghostof · Jun 05, 2006, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Try and body block and trap a spiker to be killed. Force them ball up.

Blood Spikes have gotten tougher with ritualists in the mix. They hold alters really well.

If your Iway *gulp* make sure your orders and taint stay out of spike range and have your taint do his corpse duties. Well of Profane absolutely can own a spike team. As can running an order of apostasy necro. Iway is rush and kill and hope to god you win lol. Hope that there fs works against them.

Interrupt the aegis chain. Shutdown the ritualist if possible. Have your elementalist in balanced bring rust to slow spikes and rezzing.

"Shadow Strike and Barbed Signet both take two seconds to cast, leaving them wide open to interruptions. Area interruptions such as Cry of Frustration, Choking Gas, Thunderclap, Earthquake, and Maelstrom can be effective not only at preventing a spike but also at throwing off the rhythm. Good Blood Spike teams learn not to remain close.

The Blood Spike build is very energy hungry. It depends on something dying nearby every 15-20 seconds to fuel it. Energy denial with spells like Energy Surge can be effective after the first spike or two because the Blood Spikers probably won't have enough energy left. " -Guild Wiki

On that note for your Corpse control mesmer has anyone thought of bringing well of profane?

Played against IQ's smite in Ha last night and got own'd by it.