Curse

Mental Leteci · May 16, 2006, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Yes,I'm here to whine. All spikers please don't even try to read this topic because you wont' like it. I would like to ask you all one question: When was the last time ANet nerfed an exploit build? And by this i mean NERFED not tried to nerf (IWAY wasn't nerfed at all). I've faced a necro spike using new and old Sahdow Strike (if you know what I mean) and spike wasn't infusable. They spiked with shadow strike,our infuser saved him and then they spiked with lifebane strike before he was even healed. Didn't ANet said that the descriptions for Faction skills which are duplicates are only temporary? Why did they leave it ? Now players who own both campaigns can abuse it. I don't like new tombs look at all,this isn't a game anymore and Arena Net should do something about it. This became a contest in which everyone is competing who will play more exploited build. Air of Enchantment > Ether Renewal (now they can have 16 in smiting,before they had only 12) which means that Renewal was unnecessarily nerfed. I don't see why is Anet doing this,they don't know how to nerf it or what,because if they need any help FEEL FREE TO CONTACT ME, ffs. If I remember,there was something about skill based thingy on the box,but whatever...

/sign and /notsign please

lord of shadow · May 16, 2006, 09:04 PM // 21:04

bloodspike is very very beatable, iway is by no means unbeatable. it was not "nerfed" however a bug which let the attack speeds stack to 66% increase was fixed, anet therefore removed the exploit.

dont really see your point here

/notsigned

lishi · May 16, 2006, 09:17 PM // 21:17

blood spike is easy to beat till you try to unroot them off the hall

spirit spammer + ritualist spammer + 6 monk with infinite enegy ...

Air of Enchantment > Ether Renewal

not true

ether renewal provited with infinite healing as well and the damage output is not the same becouse the damage from zealot fire was decreased.

i meet some smite in Hall , its a good build but not overpowered

Mental Leteci · May 16, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

You're all missing my point. I'm not talking only about overpowered things,I'm talking about overused things as well. Heroes Ascent became boring and not fun at all. You will all say go play GvG, well what if I want to play HA?
And bloodspike IS beatable,like I said until you face a spike like this:
They spike you with shadow strike,your infuser infuses and then he's not even healed somebody already got spiked with lifebane strike. Sorry,but you can talk all you want,this IS overpowered.

TheOneMephisto · May 16, 2006, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Then learn to disrupt their spikes... interrupts FTW

Robster Lobster · May 16, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

You're all missing my point. I'm not talking only about overpowered things,I'm talking about overused things as well. Heroes Ascent became boring and not fun at all. You will all say go play GvG, well what if I want to play HA?
And bloodspike IS beatable,like I said until you face a spike like this:
They spike you with shadow strike,your infuser infuses and then he's not even healed somebody already got spiked with lifebane strike. Sorry,but you can talk all you want,this IS overpowered.

But that's a long time for a 60Al target to spend unable to kite or heal. You should be able to drop one of them in that time.

And the spike should be infusable, Just get the WoH to camp the Infuser, the second the infuser casts, he gets WoH'ld back up and is ready to infuse again.

Mental Leteci · May 16, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

There is QZ up (or you all forgot about it) and 1000 of ritualists spirits. It's not as easy as it looks like. And mephisto,1 spiker down won't make such a big diff. It's a necro spike,it's not a perfect spike even with all players spiking. Problem is the whole build,which is exploited from the start. I mean,soul reaping SHOULD NOT work on spirits.

Scary Something · May 16, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

/sign

Divineshadows · May 16, 2006, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

You're all missing my point. I'm not talking only about overpowered things,I'm talking about overused things as well. Heroes Ascent became boring and not fun at all. You will all say go play GvG, well what if I want to play HA?
And bloodspike IS beatable,like I said until you face a spike like this:
They spike you with shadow strike,your infuser infuses and then he's not even healed somebody already got spiked with lifebane strike. Sorry,but you can talk all you want,this IS overpowered.

ROFL -- a spike team bringing shadow strike, lifebane strike, and vamp gaze? This defeats the whole purpose of spiking -- which is to be able to kill with a minimum number of skills possible and use the rest of the free space in your skill bar for defense and utility. A blood spike that brings both of these skills is not building for holding and is instead building to fame farm off of IWAY teams and teams that do not know how to interrupt (or teams that do not know how to properly stagger their interrupts). Sure they can spike more frequently than your standard blood spike, but these are two second casts which make them easy to interrupt. If the necromancers are casting these spells as often as they recharge, then that is 5.5 seconds (cast time + aftercast) every 8 that they are spending on their primary spike skill not even counting time spent on the afterspike skill of vamp gaze. This leaves virtually no time in between for the necromancers to use their healing and protection spells.

Out of curiousity, how many players on your team could interrupt shadow/lifebane strike and specifically which interrupt skills did each one have?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

There is QZ up (or you all forgot about it) and 1000 of ritualists spirits. It's not as easy as it looks like. And mephisto,1 spiker down won't make such a big diff. It's a necro spike,it's not a perfect spike even with all players spiking. Problem is the whole build,which is exploited from the start. I mean,soul reaping SHOULD NOT work on spirits.

QZ really is not that big of a problem if you stress the importance to your team to dispatch it quickly. I agree that soul reaping should not work on spirits, but should work on minions. If soul reaping never did work on spirits, then blood spike would never have become popular. Soul reaping only ever amounts to anything in HA anyway. For GvG, TA, etc., it is tied with strength for the worst primary attribute based off of inherent effect only.

makosi · May 16, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05

/Sign

You're still erring away from Leteci's point. I was observing a HoH game earlier today in which 3 blood spike teams were competing which indicates that the game has become monotonous. Back in the day, air-spike was nered because of its overpowerment so under the same logic n-spike should be too. "3,2,1 spike" doesn't constitute 'skill', nor does 7 healers and protectors topping up eachothers healthbars.

My GW box: "It will always be your skill that earns your victory or defeat."

Mental Leteci · May 16, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

My GW box: "It will always be your skill that earns your victory or defeat."

:* This is what I'm talking about.
@Divineshadows: No,they still have same healing: Barbed Signet out and Lifebane Strike in. And they have enough energy for all that - ritualist+ranger.

JR · May 16, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

I will concur with one sentiment of Leteci's post; Remove the god damn dual skills Anet KPLEASE. Blood Spike with both Shadow Strike and Lifebane Strike is a bit retarded, and it just makes no sense to keep the doppel skills in anyway.

makosi · May 16, 2006, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I will concur with one sentiment of Leteci's post; Remove the god damn dual skills Anet KPLEASE. Blood Spike with both Shadow Strike and Lifebane Strike is a bit retarded, and it just makes no sense to keep the doppel skills in anyway.

Yeah, copied skills seem like the creators got cheap and lazy. I can't think for the life of me why they did it.

Bestial Fury = Tiger's Fury
Sundering Shot = Penetrating Attack
Revealed Hex = Inspired Hex... the list goes on.

0_o

Outkast · May 16, 2006, 11:24 PM // 23:24

/Signed

I'll actually agree with the main point. I think they should just make it so you can have only one of the duplicate skills on your bar at any given time.

However, gonna completely disagree with his IWAY point...

The nerfing that 'build' has had since its inception is pretty extensive imo. From the slower heal party recharge, the energy cost on mantra of resolve, the attack speed stacking, the OOV stacking, the dust trap blind length, the higher adrenaline req on Eviscerate, the list is endless.

Divineshadows · May 16, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I will concur with one sentiment of Leteci's post; Remove the god damn dual skills Anet KPLEASE. Blood Spike with both Shadow Strike and Lifebane Strike is a bit retarded, and it just makes no sense to keep the doppel skills in anyway.

Why was it only the necromancer that got duplicate skills that actually make their way in doubled form onto people bars? R/N with vamp touch and vamp bite and N/Mo with shadow strike and lifebane strike. Really what other duplicates would anyone possibly run? Inspired hex and revealed hex originally looked like an interesting combination for a Mo/Me or even a Me/*, but having two skills on your bar that are entirely conditional and using them for energy management just seems like a bad plan.

It seems like every other duplicate skill would just make no sense to use (for PvP at least). I have seen an elementalist with Dragon Stomp and Earthquake, but this simply was not effective since the recharge with glyph of energy only allows for use with one.

JR · May 16, 2006, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Why was it only the necromancer that got duplicate skills that actually make their way in doubled form onto people bars? R/N with vamp touch and vamp bite and N/Mo with shadow strike and lifebane strike. Really what other duplicates would anyone possibly run? Inspired hex and revealed hex originally looked like an interesting combination for a Mo/Me or even a Me/*, but having two skills on your bar that are entirely conditional and using them for energy management just seems like a bad plan.

It seems like every other duplicate skill would just make no sense to use (for PvP at least). I have seen an elementalist with Dragon Stomp and Earthquake, but this simply was not effective since the recharge with glyph of energy only allows for use with one.

Luck of the draw, I suppose. Although I don't really consider Touch/Bite a strong combination, due to my low opinion of Ranger Touchers. Horrible arena gimmicks just make me sad. Blood Spike is another gimmick, but one formidable enough in certain situations to be a problem. I know this is the HA section, but Blood Spike on the fire map in GvG can be damn difficult to play against if they are decent. They really didn't need to buff it more by adding Lifebane Strike.

Divineshadows · May 17, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Luck of the draw, I suppose. Although I don't really consider Touch/Bite a strong combination, due to my low opinion of Ranger Touchers. Horrible arena gimmicks just make me sad. Blood Spike is another gimmick, but one formidable enough in certain situations to be a problem. I know this is the HA section, but Blood Spike on the fire map in GvG can be damn difficult to play against if they are decent. They really didn't need to buff it more by adding Lifebane Strike.

Never said the touch ranger was a strong combination. It is a gimmick in every sense. They infest RA and to some degree TA. I have seen them some in HA, but only ever on smite teams. It is really amusing what teams are using to smite off of: warriors, sins, thumpers, touch rangers, touch necros, and IW mesmers. Personally, I think warriors and thumpers are the only viable choices for a team looking to win, because knockdown is so critical.

Guardian of the Light · May 17, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

IWAY is like a cochroch. The build ....just....won't....die. We weakened it enough so it doesn't dominate HoH and now it requires something called....SKILL. Yes it has changed and now you have to counter the counters and stuff. Wards FTW!

Also don't you think that most of these people you meet just might be good at the build and its not the build itself that makes you lose to them.

lord of shadow · May 17, 2006, 05:48 AM // 05:48

just realised what you post was actually saying about the spike you faced..
they spiked with SS, the with lifebane.. and you infuser wasn't healed in the TWO SECONDS between the spikes? if you cant heal up an infuser in 2 seconds you deserve to lose

art_ · May 17, 2006, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

There is QZ up (or you all forgot about it) and 1000 of ritualists spirits. It's not as easy as it looks like. And mephisto,1 spiker down won't make such a big diff. It's a necro spike,it's not a perfect spike even with all players spiking. Problem is the whole build,which is exploited from the start. I mean,soul reaping SHOULD NOT work on spirits.

Agreed.

Im surprised it didn't get nerfed already. Its idiotic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by outkast

However, gonna completely disagree with his IWAY point...

shocking that you of all people would be happy for any nerfs but those that effect IWAY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makosi

My GW box: "It will always be your skill that earns your victory or defeat."

Spike builds make a mockery of this, and when you give them this kind of broken holding power it makes the whole system a complete joke.