Curse

sir lockt · May 18, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

i was wondering what kind of backine is used mostly. I am talking about the monk-line, with support skills on other chars. I was wondered when i encountered yesterday a 3-monk backline on an opponent (even 1 bonder

) I thought those ppl where extinct, but they gave us a hard time getting kills... of course when the monk-line colapsed their team collapsed, but I am wondering what kind of back-line is used

On monking:
2 or 3 prim monks (or maybe prim rt?)

Setup:
Boon
WoH
Infuse
Light
??

Boons: the old OoB, MoR or E-drain?

Support:
Heal party spammer (Ele, Me)
hex removal (me)
Condition removal (matyr, draw...)
Flashbot
Watersnare
Wards
Spirits

Ok I will start:
Monks: 2
Setup: 2 boons or 1 boon and 1 Light
Boon: OoB (yeah we are old-school...

) but testing e-drain setups atm (personally I hate MoR...)
Support: Heal party ele, hex remover and draw mesmer, wards

Just curious on setups... I would love to see some discussion

JR · May 18, 2006, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Two Boon Prots is my personal favorite. I am a big fan of Word Monks too, but even they just don't have the raw power of a Boon Prot. It does mean your monks have to be entirely on top of their energy, as running with two monks at 3 pips of regen can be difficult for less experienced players.

Although as I said, Word Monks are pretty awesome too. I haven't up to now been that impressed with Light, it may just be that I need to get further used to it.

Mid-line Draws and Hex removals are key, if you run Warriors. Keeping them clean to do their job is critical.

sir lockt · May 18, 2006, 09:38 AM // 09:38

IMO running Light monks you need a lot of skills in e-management. Some of the proposed builds in this forum that uses light, have to little e-management. I think your primary heal-spammer of 10 energy is just plain to much.

Word monks I use always when playing PvE, they are rather easy to manage, and the heal-output is nice. I ran, what we call: mirror monks, with my monk buddy: the idea is to never self-heal, but trust solely on the other. Most of the skills are an exact mirror, with some minor differences (hex removal, support enchants like seed) In PvP this works until a certain lvl. after that it misses flexibility.

Boons are flexible and the energy management is awesome. Without being actively surged I will hardly never run out of energy with another boon around.

Patrograd · May 18, 2006, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Dual boon prots are the norm, although WOH/healing Light monks or Blessed Light monks are starting to replace one of those boons in some builds. Three monk backlines are most often seen with a bonder casting orders (like with [DeeR] and their ranger spike)

Lady Callingwell · May 18, 2006, 10:56 PM // 22:56

I'm the guildie starting the small revolt in our guild against the standard boon prots we were using, due to the problems expected from shadow shroud.

With the absence of one of our standard monks the last time we GvGed (ladder locked) I worked on getting a blessed light based monk going. My setup was the following:

Monk/Mesmer
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 16 (12+4)
Protection Prayers: 8 (7+1)
Domination Magic: 4
Inspiration Magic: 10

Protective Spirit (Protection Prayers)
Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
Divine Intervention (Divine Favor)
Blessed Light [Elite] (Divine Favor)
Signet of Devotion (Divine Favor)
Power Drain (Inspiration Magic)
Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)
Hex Breaker (Domination Magic)

The monk worked very well for me, power drain and drain enchantment provided abbundant energy income with the 40 % recharge/20 % +1 inspiration set and I could keep spamming PS/RoF around. A final thing that's very good about using power drain is that it forces you to tab around a bit more intesively and therewith keep a better overview of what's happening.

When compact damage was provided a divine intervention provided all healing that was required and blessed light provides wonderfull heal and relieve when a target is suffering shadow shroud + deep wound. Al together I must say that I didnt spam blessed light around, spamming was done with RoF mainly.

A final thing is that with the absence of boon/MoR (I prefer MoR when boon protting) CoP beacme a lot less interesting and therefore dropped in favor of HB. This worked very pleasant, as the thing that normally kills me is a diversion while I'm hitting my cast button.

The thing we didnt face is a real spike, and that's what I fear most, absence of boons hitting with RoF and PS reduces healing output a lot, the main advantage on adrenal spikes on the other hand is that the shroud might be taken of when not covered properly and deep wound can be pulled. That normally makes up for a lot of healing.

Alltogether I started believing in this monk next to a boon prot, whereas the monk's focus is a bit different and therefore more suited against some other builds than the boon prot (e.g. degen teams).

dansamy · May 19, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

I like your setup, Lady Callingwell. However, I would probably drop P. Drain in favor of I. Hex and drop Drain Enchant in favor of I. Enchant. If the other side is running MoR booners, you now have 2 Elite skills and you're already specced to be able to use it.

Red Locust · May 19, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Going out of your way to reach their backline monks and drain them for what isn't even guaranteed to be MoR, is suicide :P

Stick with inspired hex and/or drain enchant. I'd also take a 5e spammable heal, because blessed light is not always practical.

dansamy · May 19, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

Going out of your way to reach their backline monks and drain them for what isn't even guaranteed to be MoR, is suicide :P

You wouldn't have to go out of your way. You have other energy management opportunities and I. Enchant can still be used on other targets in addition to their monks. It's just nice to have that extra opportunity should it present itself in a way that won't suicide you.

Quote:

I'd also take a 5e spammable heal, because blessed light is not always practical.

He has a 5e spammable: RoF. And unless you can find something in DF that is suitable for a 5e spammable heal, then RoF'll have to do.

Clinically Proven · May 19, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy

I like your setup, Lady Callingwell. However, I would probably drop P. Drain in favor of I. Hex and drop Drain Enchant in favor of I. Enchant. If the other side is running MoR booners, you now have 2 Elite skills and you're already specced to be able to use it.

Sounds good in theory, but how would you set attributes for it? With Lady's setup, Inspiration is 10, which means should you lift an enchantment OTHER than MOR:

I. Enchant cost = 10, Energy gain = 11 ---> net gain is 1 energy

If you lift MoR:

I. Enchant cost = 10, Energy gain = 11
MoR Cost = 10, Energy gain = 23

---> net gain is 14

This is against Power Drain:

Power Drain cost = 5, energy gain = 21 ---> net gain 16

Based on that I'd stick with Power Drain, unless of course my source figures are incorrect (used GW Freaks site)

Cant be bothered doing numbers of I Hex vs. Drain Enchant atm, someone else care to?

wheel · May 19, 2006, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clinically Proven

Sounds good in theory, but how would you set attributes for it? With Lady's setup, Inspiration is 10, which means should you lift an enchantment OTHER than MOR:

I. Enchant cost = 10, Energy gain = 11 ---> net gain is 1 energy

If you lift MoR:

I. Enchant cost = 10, Energy gain = 11
MoR Cost = 10, Energy gain = 23

---> net gain is 14

This is against Power Drain:

Power Drain cost = 5, energy gain = 21 ---> net gain 16

Based on that I'd stick with Power Drain, unless of course my source figures are incorrect (used GW Freaks site)

Cant be bothered doing numbers of I Hex vs. Drain Enchant atm, someone else care to?

GOGO SEARCH!

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=133734

sir lockt · May 19, 2006, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clinically Proven

Based on that I'd stick with Power Drain, unless of course my source figures are incorrect (used GW Freaks site)

Your figures are right, but you should also take in mind the 25 sec recharge of power drain. In theory you might be able to use i-enchant/MoR 20% more often, giving you 17 energy in the same time. Of course your chance to hit MoR is dropped even more...

Quote:

Originally Posted by lady callingwell

the small revolt in our guild

Main disadvantage of this setup is that IMO you spend to much skills on e-mangement to support Blessed Light. For real spammable healing you are back to RoF only.

Divine intervention is a good skill on paper, if the other monks are informed about it and active communication is used when casted it (so you let ppl "die").

But still on true spike heal your are back to blessed light only. Rof isnt going to provide much heal without boon. divine intervention is to slow a recharge to use for this purpose. True, beefy healing will come solely from blessed light or sig of dev (slow cast...)

EDIT: with spike heal I dont necesseraly mean: vs spike teams, I just mean healing that can fill back a third drained bar full, so lets say 100+ healer, which is normal for boons.

As you indicated: spamming blessed light isnt the way to do it, it will ruin your e-management. I think with proper pressure your support boon will get a lot of work to do...

of course in your case I will be the one to back-up...and I like working hard... but you know: I hate it when ppl die: so not on my watch. (to bad the opponent thinks often different, so they kill me first

)

Clinically Proven · May 19, 2006, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

GOGO SEARCH!

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=133734

^^ that's the definative answer, mine looks like the numbers for dummies in comparison.

Squirrelly · May 19, 2006, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Try this:

11+1+3 DF
9+1 HP
4+1 PP
10 Insp

Blessed light
Sig of Dev
Gift of Health
RoF
Prot Spirit
Divine Int
I Hex
Drain Enchant

Works pretty well as long as you know when to use Sig of Dev as opposed to another heal. It still has the same weakness as most non boon prots in that it can't really heal itself very well, but Prot spirit+RoF spam generally manages against all but spikes. I don't really like Divine Intervention but it serves it's purpose and if you were to use infuse you may as well just go with WoH instead. I haven't really tried power drain with it but I can see how it could replace I Hex.

Greedy Gus · May 19, 2006, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Maybe someone can explain to me why blessed light is so good that you'd want to deal with these build issues in the first place. Why does it deserve the slot over a boon prot or a word healer?

Patrograd · May 19, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

Why does it deserve the slot over a boon prot or a word healer?

Someone from EviL was seen using it in a non ladder, non-tournament game and it has become the big thing.

Beats me, to be honest, seems to better choices around.

sir lockt · May 19, 2006, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Blessed light is ON PAPER an awesome skill: beefy healing, condition removed and hex removed. Its fast casted and rather fast recharging.

Still I agree WoH is more powerful, mainly of the energy issue. IMO you waste to much slots on e-management to get your blessed light going. But thats the entire discussion about: what viable options do you see for a monk backline.

Linkusmax · May 19, 2006, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Hex + Condition Removal, I prefer it because the build I run it in dosent have any mesmers and energy dosent ever seem to be a problem with Energizing Winds Up. Hell I liked the skill and didn't even know EviL ran it. additionally WoH monks dont prvide enough hex and condition removal for a 2 monk backline.

sir lockt · May 19, 2006, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Euh... dont see why energizing wind helps you with this skill, thought minimum costs by EW is still 10? And I would not like the slower recharge by EW.

And in my experience a 10 energy skill can be supported, but not without a proper e-management. I once developed a very nice WoH build, with only 5 energy skills, but even that wasnt usable in PvP: when being drained you have no way to get out of the deep dark valley of death, so energy preservation is nice, but regeneration is more imporatant IMO

Clinically Proven · May 19, 2006, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

Maybe someone can explain to me why blessed light is so good that you'd want to deal with these build issues in the first place. Why does it deserve the slot over a boon prot or a word healer?

I can think of two things straight away:

* Heal + Condition Removal + Hex Removal for 10 energy, single cast.

* Boon Prot vs. Shadow Shroud.

Hmmm, could be a really good skill to consider huh?

dansamy · May 19, 2006, 07:52 AM // 07:52

It is a good skill to consider. The problem is how to support the energy needs for a blessed light monk. You could out-source, but then you're screwed if your crack dealer dies.