Curse

Byron · Apr 21, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

With less than one standard week before factions floods the market and the entire game makes a hard left turn, I'd like to take an opportunity to say goodbye to the things that we'll never see in a post-Factions game. Yes, we've had some good times, Prophecies.

Bonders, its time to find another job.
Martyr, your usefulness has pretty much expired.
Signet of Devotion, you're already in the hall of fame.
Signet of Judgment, you never were much good, but your name made us think your were always leet. Rest in Peace.
Heal other, your over-healing woes are no longer a problem.
Devestating Hammer, your chains are now obsolete.
Hundred Blades, I still love you.

All I can think of at the moment. Maybe later posts will show my remaining goodbyes. The strategic shift is going to be dramatic, at any rate. I'm both looking forward to the new opportunities and dreading the possible abuses. Already, it seems as if a few skills may get the nerf in short order.

In any case, what are you all going to miss most about Prophecies PvP?

Makkert · Apr 21, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Bonders, its time to find another job.
Martyr, your usefulness has pretty much expired.
Signet of Devotion, you're already in the hall of fame.
Signet of Judgment, you never were much good, but your name made us think your were always leet. Rest in Peace.
Heal other, your over-healing woes are no longer a problem.
Devestating Hammer, your chains are now obsolete.
Hundred Blades, I still love you.

Please enlighten us with your knowledge why these things will come to be.
In other words, can you please give some argumentation of these statements, because I don't understand where it is coming from.
This will seem like complete speculation like 'Mending will be usefull in Factions pvp' otherwise.

kind regards,

Makkert

Seef II · Apr 21, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Less caster/ele spike due to Ritualists? Yay?
I like Union and Shelter. Good stuff.

Byron · Apr 21, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

can you please give some argumentation of these statements, because I don't understand where it is coming from.

Oh, I certainly could, but without the new skills in front of me, it would be kinda hard. (You see, I'm not stationed in HQ atm..this is a covert op between classes). Thanks for your kind regards, and rest assured, I have pretty good reasons to make the claims I do.

Makkert · Apr 21, 2006, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Oh, I certainly could, but without the new skills in front of me, it would be kinda hard. (You see, I'm not stationed in HQ atm..this is a covert op between classes). Thanks for your kind regards, and rest assured, I have pretty good reasons to make the claims I do.

I'll keep an eye on this thread, and await the argumentation with interest.
This could be a nice discussion thread. I have put very little time in looking through the Factions skills, so I'm intersted in seeing how you came to your conclusions.

~ Makkert

XxForgexX · Apr 21, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Ether Prodigy: you made an Elementalist worth taking...

...

wait a minute, you're still the only thing that does!!

Byron · Apr 21, 2006, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxForgexX

Ether Prodigy: you made an Elementalist worth taking...
...
wait a minute, you're still the only thing that does!!

Energy boon = LOL all the way home.

icemonkey · Apr 21, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

yes the elementalists skills in factions is like taking a wild ride on a LOLLERCOASTER

but i think i know a few of these

heal other => healing whisper
Hundred blades => ANY OTHER ELITE GOOD LORD WHO USED THIS EVER!?!
martyr => extinguish ( i dont think this will completely replace martyr, but yes a little it will)
signet of devotion => Boon Signet, yes byron Boon signet beats devotion in every conceivable way and its too bad cuz, devotion was good I will pour out some beer for you tonight buddy signet of devotion *tear* R.I.P.
Signet of jufgement...I didnt know that got used
Devastating...I don't agree, cheapest and most forgiving way to set up deep wound with hammer, and is not being replaced

clonek · Apr 21, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

How is Boon Signet going to replace Signet of Devotion?

Boon Signet is an elite. If you playing a boon prot in gvg, your elite is likely to be mantra of recall or energy drain. Are you just going to hope that your team as enchantments up all the time? It only heals for 37 at 16 divine. Sure you gain 2 energy for each enchantment up to a max of 6 energy.

If anything it would replace mantra of recall or energy drain which is unlikely.

suiraCLAW · Apr 22, 2006, 10:33 AM // 10:33

about the skills you listed:

Bonders -> ritulaist spirits are way better
Martyr -> extinguish removes a condition from every1 and isn't elite
Signet of Devotion -> still good to counter e-surge, but there are to much new anti-signet skills :S
Signet of Judgment -> still best smiting elite, ray of judgement and word of censure suck hard...
Heal other -> heal whisper, heal gift etc, all better...
Devestating Hammer -> still possible...
Hundred Blades -> if sun and moon slash were elite, they still would be better, dragon, quivering slash, coward, etc are just the way to go.

Laibeus Lord · Apr 22, 2006, 11:27 AM // 11:27

What's interesting with the Ass'es and Rits are that these two professions are both great as a secondary - supporting the primary, or as a primary themselves.

Rit for example:
R/Rt or Rt/R
Mo/Rt or Rt/Mo
N/Rt or Rt/N

Ass:
R/A or A/R
Mo/A or A/Mo
W/A or A/W

and so on.

That's why as was said, some or alot will be gone. "Though" assuming majority of the Prophecies players will buy Factions. If there will still be more Prophecies players than Factions, they are still limited to what Prophecies offers.

From there, ANet can balance everything so that Proph do not own Factions and vice versa.

d3kst3r · Apr 22, 2006, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Role players who farm 24/7 for money to spend on things that are useless... rest in peace... oh wait maybe not.

Tark Alkerk · Apr 22, 2006, 11:30 AM // 11:30

a sad sad day for prophaericies skils...

SaintGreg · Apr 22, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Devestating Hammer is going to better than it was, since you can sub in fierce blow for oft used mighty blow and do more chain damage than before.

Quote:

Hundred Blades -> if sun and moon slash were elite, they still would be better, dragon, quivering slash, coward, etc are just the way to go.

Coward is probably not the way to go, unless they change the skill before release. You can't afford to waste your elite just to knock a kiter down at range. If it was unconditional knockdown maybe. Hundred blades to sun and moon slash could be some interesting buff doubling, but still not worth it.

Byron · Apr 23, 2006, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Now for some explanations.

Bonders give way to ritualists, through and through. This is especially so due to the great amount of enchantment removal going around, and enchantments will be twice as easy to remove once factions comes out. Spirits will thrive were bonds have failed, is what I'm saying. Spirits don't need energy management and cannot be negated with a single skill. Even with boon signet, bonders can't compete with ritualists.

Martyr, yes. Extinguish, I feel, is in some ways even better than martyr. Extinguish removes one condition, rather than transfers them. Of course, 90% of martyr's usefulness is against disease, but when it is transferred, the martyr often just ends up respreading it to teammates. Extinguish solves that little inconvenience. Not only that, it casts 4 times quicker, making it almost impossible to interrupt(1/4th of a sec). And it has the same recharge time as martyr. Is that worth 15 energy, you ask? Considering it would take 40 energy to remove a team disease otherwise, yes. Considering its not elite, very yes. Extinguish on an E/Mo = pwnge.

Signet of devotion, one of my favorite skills. I may have been premature saying it was time to say goodbye to this one, but it seems to me that on a healer, signet of rejuvenation is clearly the better option. On a boon prot it may be difficult to fit in given the several new, amazing, mid-energy prot skills. Spirit bond may yet replace infuse health, but that is yet to be seen.

Signet of Judgment may have had some value for its aoe in pve, but its only effective in pvp as part of a spike. Ray of judgment makes smites perhaps worth taking, as do the new signets. Spear of life and signet of rage make interesting warrior killers. I could see a Me/Mo fast-cast smiter being quite deadly with mantras equipped. I guess I put this here due to my frustration with smiting.

Heal other, first of all, is 10 energy. I'm not a fan of the skill in the first place. Ethereal light is 5 energy, but heals for ~110 at 16 healing. Heal other is 190. Thing is, Ethereal light can be cast on yourself, and despite it being easily interruptable, the advantages outweigh. If your a monk interrupted, it's probably a mesmer doing it anyway, so the "easily" part of the easily interrupted statement isn't too valuable. It's better to spam orison when kiting a warrior anyway, IMO. Healing whisper, with half the spell range, is much more limited. I think monks need all the range they can get, personally.

Devestating hammer is almost certainly dead. With the very easy, low-cost chain of Forceful hammer-> Heavy Blow-> Crushing blow, you gain a net +100 damage, deep wound, and KD. Forceful is 5 adn cost, heavy is 6 adn cost. That's like a warrior jackpot. And you can keep irresistable on the bar! Yes, forceful "may" cause you to be KD, but who cares? You'll get enough 3-skill kill combos to offset that little inconveneice.

Ah, yes.. hundred blades. I'm a fan of that skill, especially with buff stacking(Signet of Strength!) or adrenaline shouts. But with the new elites, it becomes virtually useless. Either dragon slash or quivering blade adds a nice dimension to a sever->gash->final skillbar, and both open up *gasp* new options for a sword warrior. How about Galrath->Silverwing->Dragon for a +120 net combo? Hundred blades may still be nice for "Fear Me!" though.

So my focus is on warrior and monk, clearly, but that's all I play.

XxForgexX · Apr 23, 2006, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Spirits don't need energy management and cannot be negated with a single skill.

you obviously haven't noticed a nifty little Mesmer skill called Unnatural Signet

suiraCLAW · Apr 23, 2006, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Signet of creation > spirit transfer > unnatrual signet if you want to destroy spirits ^^

still there are a lot more people with enchant removal then with a efficient spirit destroying skill...

icemonkey · Apr 23, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

interesting byron

Hammer warrior combo, is that gonna change the hammer warrior to the Charge! warrior? Maybe

and as far as ritualists, I think its a wash. There will be a lot more enchant removal comming up, and things like order of apostasy make it pretty much unstoppable if you want to use it. But, killing a spirit requires no skills like enchant removal does, all you do is whack/wand the spirit till its dead. Now granted they are gonna hide them but knowing that and the new spirit killing skills, and you probably wont be able to oath shot ritualist spirits and get enough mileage out of them at a low spec. All this adds up to not banking your team on being saved by spirits. It remains to be seen but bonding will probably remain in limited use roles and spirits may join in that.

Neo-LD · Apr 23, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Rejuvination Signet is linked to healing prayers and therefore would not even come close to replacing devotion signet on boon prots. Even for Heal Monks (not that many people use them), Rejuv Signet has a very real possibility to only heal for about 50.

Healing Whisper will replcae Healing Touch, not Heal Other. Heal Range is a precious thing as is, and its already easy enough for other people to get overextended out of your monks heal range. Half Casting range is no thx, but the 1s recharge and big heal does make it very attractive as a self heal. It should heal for about as much or more than Healing Touch does.

As for hammers, I remain unimpressed by anything that factions has to offer in this department. Theres a whole bunch of weakness dependent stuff which really reminds me of why people take Hammer Bash over Heavy Blow. During matches, if we identify their warriors use heavy blow, we make a point of draw conditioning it as soon as it appears. More than 1/2 the heavy blows wont trigger. I fear that good teams will do exactly that to teams using weakness-reliant hammer warriors. I can understand Forceful -> Heavy since the Heavy goes off too quickly to remove weakness (Deva/Crush/Irres/Heavy leaves weakness on too long before you use it). However you run the risk of wasting a KD if Forceful triggers its KD... either way you'll get 1 KD... but again thats only 1 KD... Backbreaker's 4s KD and Deva's Double KD combo look much better.

DieInBasra · Apr 23, 2006, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

and you probably wont be able to oath shot ritualist spirits and get enough mileage out of them at a low spec.

This is pretty off-topic, and more of an aside, but Ritual Lord(Spawning Power, classified as a "Elite Skill", so nothing will take it off of you) at 12 reduces the recharge on spirirts by 63%. Seeing as most binding rituals are near 45-60 second recharge, you don't need oath shot to be able to "spam" spirits.