Curse

rii · Jun 16, 2006, 08:02 AM // 08:02

You don't have a hard resurrection skill. I would change the secondary of the migraine mesmer and pick up resurrect.

I run Migraine quite a lot, and usually with a 40/40 recharge/casting time set Migraine doesn't need support from Arcane Conundrum. I would suggest power drain, allowing you to pump out more Phantasms. Especially if you are only using AC half its potential time, I would say it isn't worth it. Also, while 5 energy SOF is totally awesome, it isn't required, so I would drop to around 10 inspiration and buff up your illusion. Lvl 16 IOR v Frenzy is fun.

Your smiter doesn't have a cover enchantment for zealot's fire, which could leave it vunerable to enchantment removal. Most people manage without but if you ran into someone who picked it up you would have problems. Perhaps take out Draw Conditions for Holy Veil, or possibly drop scourge healing.

I would mess around with the stats on the Cripshot to find 5 points for Domination and get Blackout. Put it in for Marauders Shot, which seems a bit random.

I would suggest dropping Shadow Strike for Enfeeble. Your Air elmo is running flags I assume, so Blind will not always be there. As Vindexus says, this is a pressure style team, not really a spike, and weakness is pretty nice. It may also allow you to drop Enervating on the Elmo, maybe even pick up a low spec'd Deep Freeze. Up to you of course.

Poison Ivy · Jun 16, 2006, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Warriors are going to crush you build into bits.

Migraine won't make that much of a difference, ever heard of Contemplation of Purity ? Also not to mention the 1337 support hex removal, your team will lack huge damage.

stokey · Jun 16, 2006, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Why does everyone think the Migraine is for the monks? Read the previous posts before saying you can just CoP Migraine off; that's a given. Any decent migraine mes knows who to target to get the most out of migraine. IT IS NOT INTENDED FOR THE BOON PROT.

On topic: the build seems fairly strong but I must agree that your mesmer should carry a hard rez. The shadow strike on the necro doesn't seem to fit his role in the build. Maybe it'd be better to take that out for a rez sig? I was never a fan of whirling defense because of the long recharge. Maybe you can respec for distortion? I'm not sure what the breakpoint is for cripshot but if 12 isn't a breakpoint, I don't see the damage in taking one out of marks to put into illusion.

Patrograd · Jun 16, 2006, 09:46 AM // 09:46

One quick thing I would add to this is to say that with only one melee character you may find that you have difficulty killing off weak targets. Nothing is more frustrating for a degen team than to find their opponents permanently hovering on 15-20% health. This applies especially to turtle assaults in my experience. I think this build will have considerable difficulty taking down bodyguards unless the assassin goes off alone to do it prior to the other team retreating

IMO, such a build needs 2 melee characters, and I would always, always have a deep wound warrior in there somewhere who can work with the assassin to kill off those on less than 50% health with ease. I dont know who i would take out, but my gut feeling would be that the smiter will be less effective smiting off an assassin than you might like (assassins for the most part zip in and out of melee range, which isnt really what you want from a smite carrier imo)

fatboyslimerr · Jun 16, 2006, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Still no dwaynas kiss. Your loss

DieInBasra · Jun 16, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Also with Reckless you are more likely to get energy from the failutre combo.

Yeah, but miss % are diminishing returns, since it's 50% of 50%, not 50% plus 50 %, for example. I think my figure of 37.5 is on a 50% miss, actually, and 31.25 is for 25% miss. With reckless you'd only be getting a 45.8% chance for them to miss going 50% faster, versus 50% slower and 31.25% chance to miss. Like I said, I'd rather be messing up warriors then giving my mesmer energy. Maybe my math is wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

Quote:

Also, while 5 energy SOF is totally awesome, it isn't required, so I would drop to around 10 inspiration and buff up your illusion. Lvl 16 IOR v Frenzy is fun.

The high insperation is more for the high lvl MoR, as well as to have more energy to spam IoR and to use AC, which, as long as I get 6-7 misses per drop, I will have enough energy to use.

Quote:

Warriors are going to crush you build into bits.

Aegis, cripshot, spirit of failure, price of failure,feint as well as two of thier support characters doing stuff 50% slower and most probably with an interupt ranger on them. We do fine.

Quote:

but my gut feeling would be that the smiter will be less effective smiting off an assassin than you might like (assassins for the most part zip in and out of melee range, which isnt really what you want from a smite carrier imo)

Well, the whole idea of the smiter is to make the assassin less squishy, and to spam scourge. But now that scourge has to go, I might think of changing it, though I might need to change up my backline a bit (need for a midline draw and maybe more hex removal would then be an issue).

Quote:

Still no dwaynas kiss. Your loss

And what would it replace? Healing touch, the only good healing selfheal? Orison, so then I only have one selfheal? Word, which in most cases outdoes it? Infuse, so I can't compete as well against spikes? A healers bar is packed as it is, so I would if I could, but I can't.

Quote:

always have a deep wound warrior in there somewhere who can work with the assassin to kill off those on less than 50% health with ease.

Well, with some blessing I can spike for 350-400, 500 with the air there, so I was hopeing that'd be enough. We've been doing a differant degen build lately, but I'm hopeing to start testing on this one, so I guess I'll get back to you.

Edited version on first post. I'm still open to suggestions.

Vermilion Okeanos · Jun 16, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Didn't read anywhere that the mesemer is suppose to jump other targets prior my previous post, but now that I know... it make a little more sense on your mesemer.

As other said, you lack in offensive power, I don't know what are you going to kill without much disturbance on the monk. Although if the degen is spread wide enough, the monk can be put on some pressure, but chances are that it won't happen. Why? Because hex removal is everywhere, and their monk would most likely use ur hex as another energy boost (inspired hex etc), while your mesemer is losing energy, they are gaining energy. After that, the typical energy burn will just bench your mesemer because their ele or necro was calling out migraine.

Migraine isn't really a pressure material, those conditions like poison disease and maybe even daze etc are far better off (although now days, extinguish is quite harsh on them). Mainly due to the balance of energy spend (in this case you spending more energy and they spend less, they out last you), you will almost always lose in pressure using expensive hex.

I can see this build working better without the opponent being offensive on your energy, but I would still wonder who will you kill.

fatboyslimerr · Jun 16, 2006, 05:40 PM // 17:40

[QUOTE=DieInBasra] And what would it replace? Healing touch, the only good healing selfheal? Orison, so then I only have one selfheal? Word, which in most cases outdoes it? Infuse, so I can't compete as well against spikes? A healers bar is packed as it is, so I would if I could, but I can't. [QUOTE]

I'm sort of glad people are underestimating dwaynas kiss because its way over powered in my opinion after recent buff. You could easily out heal orison or even word of healing, freeing up elite spot for something else.

For example (this is really roughly done because I dunno what attribute points would work best) say a team mate has 2 hexes and prot spirit on them. You would heal a base of about 50 + 30 odd from divine favour then +30 for every hex and enchant on that ally which is 3, so + 90
So 50 + 30 + 90 = 170 heal for 5 energy

Still not convinced ??

Vindexus · Jun 16, 2006, 07:12 PM // 19:12

I personally would drop the Assassin for a Dev, Crushing, Fierce Hammer warrior for some more finishing power.

Here's the version of the offense I rolled up.

I took out Migraine for Expel Hexes because it had no off monk hex removal. Also gave him a hard res.
I took out the assassin for a Hammer warrior.
Put guardian on the Smiter for more smiting.
Changed up the Crip shotter a bit
Gave the necro Extinquish and Heal Party, and dropped Shadow Strike and Price of Failure.

FW_Warrior

Warrior/Elementalist
Level: 20

Strength: 9 (8+1)
Tactics: 11 (10+1)
Hammer Mastery: 16 (12+4)

Devastating Hammer [Elite] (Hammer Mastery)
Crushing Blow (Hammer Mastery)
Fierce Blow (Hammer Mastery)
Bull's Strike (Strength)
Frenzy (Warrior other)
Rush (Strength)
Healing Signet (Tactics)
Resurrection Signet ()
FW_Mesmer

Mesmer/Monk
Level: 20

Fast Casting: 9 (8+1)
Inspiration Magic: 15 (12+3)
Illusion Magic: 12 (10+2)

Expel Hexes [Elite] (Mesmer other)
Arcane Conundrum (Illusion Magic)
Conjure Phantasm (Illusion Magic)
Images of Remorse (Illusion Magic)
Mantra of Persistence (Inspiration Magic)
Spirit of Failure (Inspiration Magic)
Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)
Resurrect (Monk other)
FW_NecroMonk

Necromancer/Monk
Level: 20

Soul Reaping: 2 (1+1)
Curses: 12 (10+2)
Blood Magic: 13 (10+3)
Healing Prayers: 11

Offering of Blood [Elite] (Blood Magic)
Life Siphon (Blood Magic)
Parasitic Bond (Curses)
Faintheartedness (Curses)
Blood Ritual (Blood Magic)
Extinguish (Protection Prayers)
Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
Resurrection Signet ()
FW_CripShot

Ranger/Mesmer
Level: 20

Expertise: 15 (11+4)
Wilderness Survival: 10 (9+1)
Marksmanship: 10 (9+1)
Domination Magic: 5

Apply Poison (Wilderness Survival)
Hunter's Shot (Marksmanship)
Distracting Shot (Expertise)
Savage Shot (Marksmanship)
Crippling Shot [Elite] (Marksmanship)
Debilitating Shot (Ranger other)
Blackout (Domination Magic)
Resurrection Signet ()
FW_Smiter1

Monk/Necromancer
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 7 (6+1)
Smiting Prayers: 16 (12+4)
Protection Prayers: 12 (11+1)

Air of Enchantment [Elite] (Protection Prayers)
Guardian (Protection Prayers)
Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
Zealot's Fire (Smiting Prayers)
Draw Conditions (Protection Prayers)
Balthazar's Aura (Smiting Prayers)
Scourge Healing (Smiting Prayers)
Resurrection Signet ()

DieInBasra · Jun 16, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Thanks for the edit, Vin, I actually really like it. I'll miss SoF, though. If I have Extinguish on the runner, do I need it on the Necro as well? I think that whoever posted about ZF needing a cover was right, so I'd probably go Veil instead of Scourge. I'm also going to miss troll on the Ranger, Debil might go for that. As for the warrior, I was thinking of ripping of Remstars Dragon Slash build. No healing signet, so I might be putting too much faith in my Smiter to keep him alive and hurting myself in split situation, though.

Dragon Slash

Warrior/Monk
Level: 20

Strength: 13 (12+1)
Swordsmanship: 16 (12+4)

Dragon Slash [Elite] (Swordsmanship)
Sever Artery (Swordsmanship)
Gash (Swordsmanship)
Sun and Moon Slash (Swordsmanship)
Protector's Strike (Strength)
Frenzy (Warrior other)
Rush (Strength)
Resurrection Signet ()