Curse

Symbol · Jun 11, 2006, 08:03 AM // 08:03

So I've decided to try the dragon slash/sever/gash route and this is what I've come up with.

W/N

1) Dragon Slash {E}
2) Sever
3) Gash
4) Protector's Strike
5) Frenzy
6) Rush
7) Heal Sig
8) Plague Touch/Rez

16/10/10 Swords/Strength/Tactics

I'm mostly looking at TA and ABs here, so keep that in mind. The spike is not quite as hard as sever/gash/final, but you can do it twice as often. I also like protector's strike, because it's quick and really puts the hurt on moving targets.

The build seems to cover all the bases-am I missing anything?

Byron · Jun 11, 2006, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Very similar to Remstar's (iGi) sword build. The difference being, he doesnt bring heal signet or any self-sustainment (crazy chaps). Personally, I'd prefer to go W/R with a 16/9/9/7 split, since TF can keep the IAS going much more safely. Although, the 10 energy cost of TF means spamming protector's strike isn't as easy - so its a judgment call, I suppose.

**EDIT - I forgot: NEVER take rush (or an adrenaline shout) when using TF. TF cancels out the adrenaline on non-attack skills.

UltimaXtreme · Jun 11, 2006, 08:21 AM // 08:21

i was testing a damage warrior build, i can say that it either matches or exeeds the dps of an average axe war with eviserate.

-dragon slash
-Galraths slash
-silverwing slash
-sun n moon slash (or +21 + +21 damage while in stance slash, forgot name)
-frenzy/tigers
-sprint
-healsig or protectors strike
-res sig

dragon slash recharges all 3 attack skills almost immediatley, and u can almost spam the +43 dmg skills with a slight 2 hit adreneline cooldown between dragon slash and your other 3 attacks.

only weakness i see so far with about 2 hours of playing with this was that if u dont hit with dragon slash it takes a slighty longer to charge that combo up again, otherwise the dps of it is insane

Vermilion Okeanos · Jun 11, 2006, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Well, the moment I start playing with dragon slash. I realize RA is the worst place to test it out.

TheOneMephisto · Jun 11, 2006, 01:40 PM // 13:40

A reallly fun build I heard about was sun and moon slash + dragon slash + for great justice + conjure element/judge's insight/brutal weapon/another weapon buff. It allows for straight sun and moon->dragon->sun and moon->dragon-> etc. for the duration of for great justice.

Symbol · Jun 11, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

I've been using the dragon + for great justice + 2 adrenal skills for a while now, but I had to give up deep wound to do it. I want do see how sever + gash compares.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

**EDIT - I forgot: NEVER take rush (or an adrenaline shout) when using TF. TF cancels out the adrenaline on non-attack skills.

Yeah I know. Unfortunately I love rush more than I do TF so ....

fb2000 · Jun 11, 2006, 04:39 PM // 16:39

imo u simply have to include sun and moon slash in there.. i did a bit of testing on my own today, sun and moon is really useful

personally, id drop sever and gash and put in galrath and possibly final or distracting blow, if you want to go pure dps, do so imo

might try someday in TA with a axe warrior or somethin

Greedy Gus · Jun 11, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

FGJ has a garbage recharge, and generally doesn't deserve a slot. I can't imagine fitting it on a dragon slash war who already has slot efficiency problems and already has a ridiculous amount of adrenaline.

Symbol · Jun 11, 2006, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

FGJ has a garbage recharge, and generally doesn't deserve a slot. I can't imagine fitting it on a dragon slash war who already has slot efficiency problems and already has a ridiculous amount of adrenaline.

You don't understand the synergy between the two skills then. Dragon slash without FGJ = fast adrenaline buildup. Dragon slash with FGJ = INFINITE ADRENAL COMBO while FGJ is up.

It's analagous to the difference between one attunement and two.

BTW, it's odd that you claim FGJ has "garbage recharge". You can have it up almost half the time, and it'll generally net you as much or more adrenaline as, say, "To the Limit!" which people do consider worth the slot.

Greedy Gus · Jun 11, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37

I just value utility slots for knockdowns, self heals, or spike protection over a 10 energy shout that I can use less than 50% of the time. You're spending 1/3 of your energy per minute on 26 seconds of FGJ. I also value TTL much more than FGJ, because it's cheaper, the recharge is good, and it allows me to build adrenaline when I'm having trouble hitting. I don't know about you, but when I'm playing a competitive enemy, not all of my attacks are hitting. You can also spam sun&moon until you go blue in the face, but it's predictable damage, and when your dragon misses, it's build down for 7-8 precious FGJ seconds.

The only real competitive dragon slash build I've seen that's run by some top guilds is the sever/gash/sun&moon/dragon/frenzy/sprint/x/rez build. Gotta have that deep wound. Now sure you can put FGJ in that open slot, if you don't want shock, heal sig, bull's, even endure. Maybe FGJ instead of sever/gash is more fun in RA, but I think it's a poor choice.

Symbol · Jun 11, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

I just value utility slots for knockdowns, self heals, or spike protection over a 10 energy shout that I can use less than 50% of the time. You're spending 1/3 of your energy per minute on 26 seconds of FGJ. I also value TTL much more than FGJ, because it's cheaper, the recharge is good, and it allows me to build adrenaline when I'm having trouble hitting.

TTL isn't cheaper. 5E every 20 seconds is not better than 10E every 45 seconds.

Quote:

I don't know about you, but when I'm playing a competitive enemy, not all of my attacks are hitting.

I don't know about you, but I generally don't continue attacking a protted target. Sure it hurts if you're blinded or some such while FGJ is up. So what? It also hurts if there aren't a lot of enemies in the area when TTL recharges. Both skills are conditional to some extent. IMO it's disingenous to harp on one while ignoring the other.

I'm not claiming that FGJ is a wonderful skill or anything, but it certainly isn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.

Quote:

You can also spam sun&moon until you go blue in the face, but it's predictable damage, and when your dragon misses, it's build down for 7-8 precious FGJ seconds.

That's not a problem with FGJ. It's a problem with dragon slash.

Quote:

The only real competitive dragon slash build I've seen that's run by some top guilds is the sever/gash/sun&moon/dragon/frenzy/sprint/x/rez build. Gotta have that deep wound.

Sure I think deep wound is important too. That's why I'm playing a sever/gash/dragon build now as well, to see how it compares. And I wouldn't put FGJ on such a build, there's no real point to spamming sever/gash on the same target after all.

But to state that FGJ is not worth the slot on a DS build in particular is just erroneous, the two skills do have a nice synergy that is not present otherwise.

Byron · Jun 12, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Dragon slash had made FGJ interesting, IMO, but I'm not sure that it's worth takign up a skill slot. If you would wish to retain 4 attack skills, then FGJ would be replacing the heal signet slot. A more safe route would be replacing an attack slot - if you're keen on FGJ (and I am not), I think going sever/gash/dragon/FGJ in your top 4 slots is a decent option. You should be able to deliver the combo almost nonstop, and the DPS and deep wound application would be high, especially while FGJ is going.

But the dragon slash setup I have found to be most effective is sever/gash/sun and moon/dragon. Sun and moon gives a net 1 adn gain, assuming both hits land, and dragon gives a 5 net adn gain. So, the typical "full unload" combo would go sever->gash->sun and moon->dragon->sever. The second sever either covers the deep wound(if the deep wound is still there) or prepares the target for the next gash (which is only 1 adn away). In this case, FGJ isnt necessary, and the DPS and deep wound application is still amazing.

Tbh, I don't see the need for FGJ on a dragon slash warrior. It would make more sense on a final thrust warrior... FGJ and dragon slash is overkill adrenaline gain IMO. It's not that often that you can stand around and frenzy targets with limitless skill chains, anyway; FGJ will likely go to waste in 8v8 play.

Symbol · Jun 13, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

I wouldn't use FGJ with sever-gash. There's limited use for spamming those two skills as I already noted. I'd only use with the big damage adrenal attacks (galrath/silverwing/standing etc). When I use it I go with 3 attack skills + FGJ. 4 is pointless IMO.

Quote:

Tbh, I don't see the need for FGJ on a dragon slash warrior. It would make more sense on a final thrust warrior... FGJ and dragon slash is overkill adrenaline gain IMO. It's not that often that you can stand around and frenzy targets with limitless skill chains, anyway; FGJ will likely go to waste in 8v8 play

You generally get your money's worth whether they stand still or run. If they stand still they die messily. If they don't you still get to use your limitless skill chain combined with autocrits. It really is a disgusting amount of damage.

More on topic I am leaning to towards sun and moon instead of protector's. Should I try and squeeze both in?

Byron · Jun 13, 2006, 04:24 AM // 04:24

4v4 play and no deep wound or KD? I'd call that risky at best, but I've never actually tried it, tbh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

I wouldn't use FGJ with sever-gash. There's limited use for spamming those two skills as I already noted.

A second sever covers the deep wound, and gash lands for damage bonus besides applying deep wound. I suppose using FGJ, it could be more effective to say, have silverwing and galrath instead. But, I can't really justify not bringing deep wound to a 4v4 or AB (if I can justify not bringing them to any battle); redundant deep wounds are never a bad thing, even coming from the same warrior.

zoozoc · Jun 13, 2006, 06:12 AM // 06:12

I could be wrong about this, but i'm pretty sure using sever while the target is already bleeding will not cover deep wound, it will only renew the bleeding that is already under deep wound.

Symbol · Jun 13, 2006, 07:09 AM // 07:09

IMO it's the reverse in TA. I can justify not bringing DW because pressure is the name of the game there. I find that attempting to solo spike doesn't get me far. In 8v8 sure, sever-gash is likely to be a fixture on the bar.

Quote:

A second sever covers the deep wound, and gash lands for damage bonus besides applying deep wound. I suppose using FGJ, it could be more effective to say, have silverwing and galrath instead.

You don't need FGJ to cover the DW with bleeding. Sever is recharged right after dragon slash lands. Spamming gash-well I guess you can get some +damage out of it, but I don't see it as particularly optimal.

Byron · Jun 14, 2006, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoozoc

I could be wrong about this, but i'm pretty sure using sever while the target is already bleeding will not cover deep wound, it will only renew the bleeding that is already under deep wound.

Well, now I'm concerned. Could somebody "in the know" clear this up, please?

Jagan Vastary · Jun 14, 2006, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Well, now I'm concerned. Could somebody "in the know" clear this up, please?

If conditions adhere to the same rules as hexes and enchantments, and I don't see why they would not, the renewed bleed would cover the deep wound.

zoozoc · Jun 14, 2006, 06:10 AM // 06:10

I'm pretty sure that you do not actually reapply bleeding but instead renew the bleeding already on the target. I havn't tested it, but I am not making it up. I'll have to test it though to be 100% sure.

Kabale · Jun 14, 2006, 08:46 AM // 08:46

The bleeding is renewed and does not cover the deep wound.