Curse

Makkert · Jun 19, 2006, 12:59 PM // 12:59

"EP broke up."
- "allrighty..."
"A few of them are playing now at igi and some at ..."

"PrP broke up"
- "really?"
"yeah. Kate joined iQ, others don't know..."

Just a few of many 'breakup talks' that come to my ears about top pvp guilds breaking up over time.

This phenomenom (sp?) is intriguiging me.
1) Do pvp guilds break up faster then pve guilds?
2) Why do pvp guilds break up regulary?
What is the benefit here?
Personally I can hear on the sound of a voice of a guildmember who is giving that cringing 'ack! watch me' instead of the 'ack! watch 2!' usually who it is, because I'm familiar with their sounds. One learns the way your guildmembers play and react to situations over time. This helps.

So why break do pvp guilds break up fast? (or not, and is this a wrong perception of me?)
Are they instable because they can't set their targets realistic? Do they think the grass is greener on the other side or learn something new there?

Just interested in what everyone thinks on this.

~ Makk.

JR · Jun 19, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

1) Do pvp guilds break up faster then pve guilds?

Some do, some don't. It really depends on the personalities involved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

2) Why do pvp guilds break up regulary?

It's a combination of two things;

Inactivity is a huge deal in a serious PVP guild; if you don't GvG you will drop positions on the ladder. And people *want* to GvG, to reach higher positions. The mentality of most players is that if they think they could do better in another guild, they will leave.

There is also then the intensity of a serious PvP guild; such a competitive mentality has it's downsides. Suddenly a mistake in a match isn't something you laugh about over vent, it's something you get shouted at for. Blame laying, finger pointing... All eventually leads to the e-drama that breaks up a lot of top guilds.

Makkert · Jun 19, 2006, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

It's a combination of two things;

Inactivity is a huge deal in a serious PVP guild; if you don't GvG you will drop positions on the ladder. And people *want* to GvG, to reach higher positions. The mentality of most players is that if they think they could do better in another guild, they will leave.

Yes, this sounds plausible. If one member is of higher skill then the rest of the guild, he'll search for a guild of his (perceived) level. And one leaver makes a big difference in playtime for pvp guilds that are small by nature...

Quote:

There is also then the intensity of a serious PvP guild; such a competitive mentality has it's downsides. Suddenly a mistake in a match isn't something you laugh about over vent, it's something you get shouted at for. Blame laying, finger pointing... All eventually leads to the e-drama that breaks up a lot of top guilds.

That has nothing to do with playing competitively imho. A good competitive player should not only make himself better, but also his team. After all, constructive critisism will increase his own chances of winning. What you describe simply reeks of immaturity.

JR · Jun 19, 2006, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

That has nothing to do with playing competitively imho. A good competitive player should not only make himself better, but also his team. After all, constructive critisism will increase his own chances of winning. What you describe simply reeks of immaturity.

True enough, e-drama wouldn't exist if everyone was mature and thoughtfull. However they aren't, and it does.

art_ · Jun 19, 2006, 02:57 PM // 14:57

egos.

Byron · Jun 19, 2006, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by art_

egos

Very much QFT.

Ensign · Jun 19, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Guilds break up because competitive PvP is exhausting. You have to spend a lot of time with the same people working in a very fast paced environment, and when things start to go wrong problems that winning smoothed over start to boil over. Also, because staying competitive virtually requires a small set of people playing, inactivity on a couple people's parts can throw a wrench into everything and toss a guild into turmoil.

My biggest complaint with the new tournament format is that it really polarizes these problems and makes them worse. Short seasons are nice for the turnover, but it also means that if you want to compete, you need to play a *lot*, and by putting your best team out there. The ladder never stabilizes, instead it's a race to climb it as fast as possible. That makes it much, much more difficult to take days off, to experiment, to train new people - it basically makes everything more tense. A bad week can knock you out of contention instead of getting smoothed out by a longer season.

There certainly are some guild hoppers and drama queens out there, but honestly people just get burnt out. It's harder than ever to keep the depth on your roster to deal with burnout, and naturally guilds are going to fall apart when people reach that stage. It sucks, but it's just part of the game unfortunately.

Peace,
-CxE

-Deviance- · Jun 21, 2006, 12:39 PM // 12:39

I think that some leaders of guilds don't "do there part". They create the guild and then yea they want to be the best guild out there. SOOO they recruit tons of members and do PvP a lot. And then they find out that when you are in a big guild you have members asking/begging for help and gold ... and outside GW members PMing people that they saw in a Guild Match or something and spamming that they want in. And all these people trying to get in contract with you for some stupid reason. . . .

Another reason is the personality. You know it's fine to be "Strict" but some guilds don't know when it should stop . . . they are always strick and no fun which leads to members becoming bored, and having no reason to be in the guild besides GvG which they could help any other guild at.

And yes after a while GW gets boring ... in this way Leaders go offline for a while, officers go offline for a while ... members leave because there is no one to help them. and then for those members gone no one is recruiting any more members .. and after a while there is only 1/3 the guild left and then everyone else leaves.

TheOneMephisto · Jun 21, 2006, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Deviance-

I think that some leaders of guilds don't "do there part". They create the guild and then yea they want to be the best guild out there. SOOO they recruit tons of members and do PvP a lot. And then they find out that when you are in a big guild you have members asking/begging for help and gold ... and outside GW members PMing people that they saw in a Guild Match or something and spamming that they want in. And all these people trying to get in contract with you for some stupid reason. . . .

This just about never happens in the top PvP guilds that I think this thread is about.

kryshnysh · Jun 21, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

This phenomenom (sp?) is intriguiging me.
1) Do pvp guilds break up faster then pve guilds?

By PvE guilds are you comparing to "top" PvE guilds? And how do you measure "top" then? Or are you comparing to your average PvE guild that lasts 6 days before the person realizes they can't even afford a hall and don't even know what Droknar's Forge is?

I'd say that "top" PvE guilds are usually measured at least partially by lasting power, not just size, and thus the comparison is impossible. Now that we have alliances controlling towns, there might be other measures for "top" as far as a PvE guild.

Makkert · Jun 21, 2006, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by kryshnysh

By PvE guilds are you comparing to "top" PvE guilds? And how do you measure "top" then? Or are you comparing to your average PvE guild that lasts 6 days before the person realizes they can't even afford a hall and don't even know what Droknar's Forge is?

I'd say that "top" PvE guilds are usually measured at least partially by lasting power, not just size, and thus the comparison is impossible. Now that we have alliances controlling towns, there might be other measures for "top" as far as a PvE guild.

I didn't think this far yet. It was more a perception I had, and the curiousity what drives people to break up and find another guild.
Unsuprising, JR & CxE's answers were more then enough to answer this question.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jun 21, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

What about team chemistry? Personality wise.
In these top PVP guilds do you think everyone likes others on the team? How long do they just do the job of winning?
For me, if I can't stand another person ingame or in vent it eventually wears me out, you can only put up with certain things for a while. Maybe thats why some leave.