Curse

JR · Jun 20, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Ok, so I have been doing some thinking.

(trying not to strain myself.)

Due to my work on Guru I have recently been regularly guesting for quite a few fairly low ranked guilds, helping them get into the GvG. This includes preparation, understanding of the game, build analasys, strategies on the various maps, and of course; actually playing.

Due to recent events in a number of top guilds, I am very much wanting to promote the idea of helping new guilds who are wanting to become competitive. Keeping a stream of decent players coming into top guilds, and new guilds moving up the ladder is the only way to prevent the game going... well.. stale.

So what I am proposing is a service; whereby I will guest for your guild, sign up on your forums, give you build suggestions, gvg with you, and discuss any problems you may have. This does of course all depend on the response I get.

I would have fairly strict requirments though, something along the lines of the following:

- Must be an active guild, with a 'core' squad of GvG players.

- Must have a competitive attitude.

- Must listen, I don't want to waste my time.

- Must be willing to adapt to any changes I may suggest.

- Must have Ventrillo, forums would be a huge bonus.

So what do people think to this idea? Would there be enough of a response to merit bothering?

And to anyone whos first thought is "Who do you think you are, taking it upon yourself to act like some kind of tutor?", if you think you could do better, feel free to try.

Regards,
-JR

Pat_vaynard · Jun 20, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Great idea. I myself would be looking to find a competitive atmosphere to learn in as well. I have mostly done the 4v4 scene but I want to see the GVG action.

Byron · Jun 20, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Would there be enough of a response to merit bothering?

Short answer: no.

Though I do think it is a noble idea, I also think 90% of the people you would be aiming this service at would be mostly concerned with: a) gaining quick rank for bragging rights, or b) their own personal "glory." I doubt many people would actually have the patience or respect to learn the highly dynamic tactics of GvG play. Then again, I do have a knack for being cynical.

If you feel up to this challenge, I might suggest a more general approach, like a PvP "boot camp." IMO, it's too hard to find a group of dedicated and patient players who would pay for assistance. But individual players - there's a potential market.

dag_nefzen · Jun 20, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

I'd be really interested in this. Unfortunately my guild doesn't have the necessary enthusiasm for PvP that is required. However if any guild is short of a player or two I'd be more than happy to be a semi-permanent guest and give them the use of my guild's Ventrilo server if they needed it.

Very commendable offer JR-. I really hope I can benefit from it some way.

JR · Jun 20, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

IMO, it's too hard to find a group of dedicated and patient players who would pay for assistance. But individual players - there's a potential market.

Hard maybe, but that possibly isn't a bad thing given the fact that I do do have limited time to offer. And to be absolutely honest I do not want to end up running pick up groups in HA.

Appreciate the reply though.

Vindexus · Jun 20, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

JR, let me do it with you!

kryshnysh · Jun 20, 2006, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Let us know if it works out. I have a feeling eventually the negatives will outweigh the positives for you personally, but I'd love to see more improvement of the community as a whole.

From my experience, the sub-500 part of the ladder has gotten more competitive over the last couple months.

We don't fit your second criterion and thus aren't interested.

As a not so competitive guild (some of our members have left highly competitive guilds for various reasons), we do a fair bit of PvP.

One thing I've been thinking about is the following:

How do guilds who aren't highly competitive deal with very competitive members?

In our case, I'd like to recommend them to talk to various guilds, point them in the right direction or have them meet people they can work with to get better.

I'm finally making contacts to send them on, although I haven't had anyone wanting to go highly competitive since making any contacts.

I think that a couple of things could be done to improve the competition at the higher levels (and the lower levels):

-Connections between guilds at a certain tier and those above and below them
-Training for those wanting to enter into PvP, as individuals or guilds

I think all of these are present to a limited degree, excepting possibly what you are offering, where you would be adding a dimension that forums can't replicate. I see this as an important service and hope someone takes you up on it.

I think how much (or even whether) you plan on charging for such a service could very much dictate how response you get. I wouldn't be overly surprised if you get no responses if you charge and limited response if you don't.

Isileth · Jun 20, 2006, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Well this is an excellent idea! I know my guild would deffinately be interested. We are currently making some big changes namely cutting down to a core 15 or so players who will be on pretty much every day. So far our problems in GvG are mainly organisation and we often find we will be overcome quite easily by teams that work together a lot better than we do!

JR · Jun 20, 2006, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by kryshnysh

I think how much (or even whether) you plan on charging for such a service could very much dictate how response you get. I wouldn't be overly surprised if you get no responses if you charge and limited response if you don't.

I have absolutely no intention of charging anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Well this is an excellent idea! I know my guild would deffinately be interested.

Drop me a PM with details if you are interested; this goes for everyone else too. Don't be surprised if I don't get back to you immediately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

JR, let me do it with you!

The problem I see with bringing more people in is displacement of actual guild members. If there are two of us GvGing with the target guild, then suddenly thats two of their players who miss out. I appreciate the offer though, and I'll give it some thought as to how it could work out.

LightningHell · Jun 21, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Absolutely fabulous idea. I'll see how my school likes PvP, then I'll sign up if they're interested...

But training individuals might be easier, as you'd be able to stick one newer person on a higher-ranked team, and if they're willing to learn, they'll eventually get how to play. Don't see you have the time though.

Vindexus · Jun 21, 2006, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

The problem I see with bringing more people in is displacement of actual guild members. If there are two of us GvGing with the target guild, then suddenly thats two of their players who miss out. I appreciate the offer though, and I'll give it some thought as to how it could work out.

That's a good point. I could just help with builds and maybe observe some matches if they get into obsmode and give my advice.

tomcruisejr · Jun 21, 2006, 04:49 AM // 04:49

hehe. we used to do that before (before the oov+oop nerf.). but with iway. we used to look for guilds that wanna try iway in gvg and orient them how to run it. we helped a rank 3000 guild to rise to rank 200s and we even beat a rank 80+ guild before. 2-3 of my guildies and 6-5 guild to help.

helping is deffo a good thing and you're doing a good job. goodluck.

or how about a pug guildwarsguru.com gvg guild or even an official guru gvg guild :P.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jun 21, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

The problem with a guru gvg guild is that you can't get everyone in. The pvp community here is very big and you would have to be a bit selective which would defy the point of a guild for all of guru.

Wasteland Squidget · Jun 21, 2006, 05:13 AM // 05:13

I like the idea. We've already had JR guest with us in the past, and we made a couple notable improvements to our play as a result.

I actually think someone like Vindexus doing this would help a great deal. In my experience, one can learn very different things about a guild's play based on the role you're in. A monk will learn a great deal about a team's overall positioning and extensions, while a warrior could teach a team to coordinate their offense into spikes or apply effective pressure. Vind and JR could probably teach a team very different things.

Likewise, as JR mentions, time is limited. Two people are going to be able to work with more guilds than 1.

Vaga · Jun 21, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Why dont you just re-join XoO?

J3mo · Jun 21, 2006, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Nice idea, i'd like it but my guild isn't really into PvP (yet)

Legendary Battousai · Jun 21, 2006, 08:06 AM // 08:06

currious as to why you think you just that awsome at gvging... I would understand if you used to be in a top 20 guild but otherwise I think it is somewhat of a joke...

Isileth · Jun 21, 2006, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Well i dont think he is offering to train top 100 guilds to beat top 10 guilds rather help much lower guild who are struggling to find their feet a helping hand. To do so would only require a small about of experience in an organised team which so many have but so few offer to help.

Wasteland Squidget · Jun 21, 2006, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Battousai

currious as to why you think you just that awsome at gvging... I would understand if you used to be in a top 20 guild but otherwise I think it is somewhat of a joke...

JR has been in We Pwn Char, Highly Evolved, and other good guilds. Likewise, I think having held a place consistently in the Top 100 is probably enough to teach the basics to newer teams trying to GvG. There is a lot that teams in 1000-200 range could learn from that sort of player.

JR · Jun 21, 2006, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Battousai

currious as to why you think you just that awsome at gvging... I would understand if you used to be in a top 20 guild but otherwise I think it is somewhat of a joke...

I was a core member of FnlD when it was top 20, same for evo and a few other guilds that only hit top 100. I was in Char for a short while, not really worth mentioning though. I probably do about 20+ GvGs a week these days, back then it was more like 30+.

However, all of that is irrelevant, as I said in the original post; If you think you could do better, feel free to try.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaga

Why dont you just re-join XoO?

Well this was the original reason I joined XoO way back when, but sadly the internal structure and politics didn't agree with me.