Curse

Snype · May 10, 2006, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kep

couldn't of put it better myself. when you lose to an Iway group just because your a well known guild they instantly start shouting their mouths off, making out their better than you, its been the same since Math Teacher to flipping Rush for Victory Iway farming guild now. The fact of the matter is that they are all unskilled players, they put no effort into forming their groups, no thought into making their build, no communication into their play, just grab a group and go, and win because their build is highly over-powered. So yes, they are all brainless pathetic players. Yesterday I played a Euro1 PUG group in underworld, and I have much respect for them at least trying to form a group and trying to succeed, than respect I take for any Iway group.

1. I am in [MATH]. We DO put effort into the forming of our groups. We DO put thought into making our build (we have over 20 topics in our forums atm concerning different builds). And last, we DO communicate with vent. Dont talk about things you dont know about

2. We DO win. We say "gg" after every winning game, hardly ever talk trash, and win quite a lot.

3. IWAY is NOT overpowered. If it was, everyone would be running it now and winning every match wouldn't they?

Kep · May 10, 2006, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Practically everyone does run Iway, and they roll any dis-organised team, and practically every organized team, so YES it is over-powered.
Guild Wars production team would probably love to remove Iway from the game, but to them all their interested in is money, if they removed this highly over-powered build which dominates tombs they would lose about 30% of their players, probably more, hence they wont remove it. It is over-powered, if a crap Iway team can beat a r9 balanced team which happens often. You can do your best to deny these things, you know yourself the build is over-powered and if you were to play anything but Iway you wouldn't succeed, your saying its not over-powered to save your dignity, without Iway your all pretty much useless players.

Snype · May 10, 2006, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kep

Practically everyone does run Iway, and they roll any dis-organised team, and practically every organized team, so YES it is over-powered.
Guild Wars production team would probably love to remove Iway from the game, but to them all their interested in is money, if they removed this highly over-powered build which dominates tombs they would lose about 30% of their players, probably more, hence they wont remove it. It is over-powered, if a crap Iway team can beat a r9 balanced team which happens often. You can do your best to deny these things, you know yourself the build is over-powered and if you were to play anything but Iway you wouldn't succeed, your saying its not over-powered to save your dignity, without Iway your all pretty much useless players.

If I had a dollar for every lie in this post I would be able to buy anet and nerf anything I wanted to

Mental Leteci · May 10, 2006, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snype

2. We DO win. We say "gg" after every winning game, hardly ever talk trash, and win quite a lot.

I had an interesting situtation today in Scarred Earth after you lost...

Divineshadows · May 10, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kep

Practically everyone does run Iway, and they roll any dis-organised team, and practically every organized team, so YES it is over-powered.

I have to agree that IWAY will roll any dis-organised team. But practically roll every organized team? What is your success rate against IWAY on maps with only 2 teams? I would say that my guild has a success rate of 85% against IWAY teams on non relic run maps. On relic run maps, this success rate against IWAY drops closer to 45-50%. And this is all with balanced builds that are designed to counter spike teams better than the build counters IWAY teams, because this allows our build to fare much better against other balanced teams and degen teams. When my guild does get beat by an IWAY team, I typically see two or more [MATH] tags on the opposing side or otherwise recognize them as a r6+ or r9+ IWAY team. On the flip side, facing a good IWAY team means you can ill afford to make many mistakes and you will quickly be punished if any of your pick-up casters do not know how to kite and pre-kite warriors. These players with cement shoes swiftly get the boot after such a loss against an IWAY team and we either fill in with someone from our guild, our alliance, or just get yet another pick-up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snype

2. We DO win. We say "gg" after every winning game, hardly ever talk trash, and win quite a lot.

Sorry Synpe, but this has not been my experience with [MATH] win or lose. Maybe you're not part of it, but trash talk is always thrown at us when I see members from your guild. Your guild certainly does win though.

tomcruisejr · May 11, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kep

Practically everyone does run Iway, and they roll any dis-organised team, and practically every organized team, so YES it is over-powered.
Guild Wars production team would probably love to remove Iway from the game, but to them all their interested in is money, if they removed this highly over-powered build which dominates tombs they would lose about 30% of their players, probably more, hence they wont remove it. It is over-powered, if a crap Iway team can beat a r9 balanced team which happens often. You can do your best to deny these things, you know yourself the build is over-powered and if you were to play anything but Iway you wouldn't succeed, your saying its not over-powered to save your dignity, without Iway your all pretty much useless players.

one advice: stop disgracing yourself (or your guild assuming all of you think that way)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

...but this has not been my experience with [MATH] win or lose. Maybe you're not part of it, but trash talk is always thrown at us when I see members from your guild. Your guild certainly does win though.

We may be playing 1 build but we are different individuals. Some trash talk when provoked, some dont TT at all. I myself was a loudmouth when i was "grinding" with guildies in tombs. i usually trash talked when we were provoked, or some mofos insulted us. and i believe the new batch of tombers do the same, but less.

or maybe there were reasons behind us doing unprovoked trash talks. it may include:

1) we know that you hate iway
2) we know that you think iway is noob

Dancing Blade · May 11, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Even though i don't play IWAY at all, the people from MATH posting in this thread make a much more mature impression and all than the iway haters who - I am sry to say that - behave like a bunch of frustrated children.

Please try to UNDERSTAND why some people prefer to play this build and learn to live with it. If you trashtalk at them you are imo no better than all that "noob" IWAY pugs.

And I wouldn't say IWAY is overpowered anymore. A good team shouldn't have any problems against most IWAY groups 1 on 1, and an equal chance against a good iway. If you still lose against iway regularly its because of your own mistakes. So don't hate but rather try to get better.

And to all the ppl only playing IWAY: Try a little more variety, it's fun believe me.

JR · May 11, 2006, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kep

Practically everyone does run Iway, and they roll any dis-organised team, and practically every organized team, so YES it is over-powered.
Guild Wars production team would probably love to remove Iway from the game, but to them all their interested in is money, if they removed this highly over-powered build which dominates tombs they would lose about 30% of their players, probably more, hence they wont remove it. It is over-powered, if a crap Iway team can beat a r9 balanced team which happens often. You can do your best to deny these things, you know yourself the build is over-powered and if you were to play anything but Iway you wouldn't succeed, your saying its not over-powered to save your dignity, without Iway your all pretty much useless players.

I hear Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy are going round to your place later for tea and crumpets.

Ado · May 11, 2006, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dancing Blade

Even though i don't play IWAY at all, the people from MATH posting in this thread make a much more mature impression and all than the iway haters who - I am sry to say that - behave like a bunch of frustrated children.

Please try to UNDERSTAND why some people prefer to play this build and learn to live with it. If you trashtalk at them you are imo no better than all that "noob" IWAY pugs.

And I wouldn't say IWAY is overpowered anymore. A good team shouldn't have any problems against most IWAY groups 1 on 1, and an equal chance against a good iway. If you still lose against iway regularly its because of your own mistakes. So don't hate but rather try to get better.

And to all the ppl only playing IWAY: Try a little more variety, it's fun believe me.

QFT

and i feel embarresed if ppl on my team trashtalk to iway if we beat them, and even more if we lose to them. Especially calling the iwayteam noobs when you lose to them is the single most stupiest thing to do IMO. If you lose to a team (nomatter which build) and you did all you could have done, you should give them credits for it.

Dinkytowner · May 11, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dancing Blade

And I wouldn't say IWAY is overpowered anymore. A good team shouldn't have any problems against most IWAY groups 1 on 1, and an equal chance against a good iway. If you still lose against iway regularly its because of your own mistakes. So don't hate but rather try to get better.

Agreed. My guild plays a spike in halls all the time and we go probably 50/50 against iway whether it's ramdom PUG or a MATH laden team. (Albeit the matches against good one are usually short.

) When we do lose is is usually because of nothing more than shortcomings on our part. Mistakes will kill even the best of teams no matter what build they are up against.

Lord Mendes · May 12, 2006, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I hear Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy are going round to your place later for tea and crumpets.

LOOL!

I'm so tempted to post the "Running in the special olympics" pic.

Why are u guys fighting over something so stupid. Just ignore the trash talk, trust me u will all have more fun. I'm pretty sure u've all done ur fair share of trashtalk.
Funny how this is turning into a SWIM (pro balanced) vs MATH (proIWAY) debate.

JR · May 12, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

LOOL!

I'm so tempted to post the "Running in the special olympics" pic.

Why are u guys fighting over something so stupid. Just ignore the trash talk, trust me u will all have more fun. I'm pretty sure u've all done ur fair share of trashtalk.
Funny how this is turning into a SWIM (pro balanced) vs MATH (proIWAY) debate.

I was making a light-hearted joke about how is post was fairly blatantly complete bullshit. I really could not give a damn less about the e-drama affairs going on between two HA guilds.

On the odd ocassion that we did do Tombs in FnlD, facing IWAY was no more of a challenge than any other build. The only reason IWAY wins is because of the general low level of skill and competition in Heroes Ascent. IWAY works because it stomps people for making mistakes, and people in HA tend to make a lot of dumb mistakes.

allience · May 12, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snype

1. I am in [MATH]. We DO put effort into the forming of our groups. We DO put thought into making our build (we have over 20 topics in our forums atm concerning different builds). And last, we DO communicate with vent. Dont talk about things you dont know about

2. We DO win. We say "gg" after every winning game, hardly ever talk trash, and win quite a lot.

3. IWAY is NOT overpowered. If it was, everyone would be running it now and winning every match wouldn't they?

i don't have anything personal against IWAY. it's just a build with its strenght and weakness. what i do hate, is that most of the iway players are shit talkers with bad manners and sore losers. and when they do win, they talk even more shit..

i'm sure MATH puts effort into their strategy, it takes good teamplay to beat an organised balanced. sadly i often see shit talkers, noobs and bad mannered players from MATH guild. maybe u should recruit ur players with more care?
i still remember at a 5-way hall match, 2 of ur players just ran off sprinting in different directions and ur other, dead, were just talking shit. this is what i call sore losers. i wish i had taken a screen shot, it was very lame and frustrating.

i still have hope though. today, we encountered 2 very civil pug iway teams. i was amazed when they didn't just run off the map raging. they just behaved normally and did their best without hurling insults.

Ado · May 13, 2006, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

The only reason IWAY wins is because of the general low level of skill and competition in Heroes Ascent. IWAY works because it stomps people for making mistakes, and people in HA tend to make a lot of dumb mistakes.

True, but the problem is a bit more complicated than that IMO. Especially in balanced pug's, if someone makes a mistake, dumb or not, he often gets flamed on ts/vent. The flamed person then usually gets angry and ragequits. This prevents that person from improving his gameplay. Furthermore, the willingness to learn from eachother without feeling insulted is slim to none with a lot of players. This results in players sticking to their gameplay, declaring it holy and unwilling to alter it, even if it's for their own good.

rustysilver · May 13, 2006, 08:42 AM // 08:42

This thread is filled with a ton of IWAY bashing. People who hate the build because of its success and popularity. I'm rank 4 and have never played IWAY till after I was r3. I've played every type of build there is except for fast cast nukers and ele spike. I've played mostly necro , warrior (shock), and ranger (spike, spirit spammer, interrupt, trapper) in HoH and you can tack on elementalist for GvG.... but never on Iway teams until after I reached r3. But at a measly rank 3 I found my self a spot in a rank 6+ Iway group as resolve and we now do HoH often. Maybe b/c they saw I know what I'm doing even though I'm not a rank 6 resolve and they can't tell the difference. Maybe its becuase some of what has been said is right, that iwayers that only play iway play on such a lower level of skill and accell much slower than non-iway players. I don't know about your experiences with ranked Iway teams but they sound very different from mine. We don't diss each other and get mad and the only teams we ever trash talk are other iway teams that we beat. I personally like to begin each match by stating in local chat that "Iway is for noobs!" for the irony even if we are not facing another iway, and if we are vs another iway then all the better. We respect teams that beat us and give a "gg" after most matches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ophidian409

I can tell I am very much different from those brainless iwayers becasue I have played balance for a long time, when I play as a warrior whether in iway or not,

1) I never overextend and I am always the last who die
2) have the right equipment, such as zealous and ele weapons, hod helm and normal helm, knight boot
3) switch to minor rune against spike group
4) shut down spiker instead of monk
5) body blocking ghostly
6) I am always the first one who res the dead

when I play as a tainted,

1) I bring putrid and cc and set death magic to 16
2) I switch to backup energy set if needed
3) I use bloodstained boot
4) in broken tower, I windborne runner at -4 sec and windborne ghostly at 1 to ensure the ghostly is the first to be on the alter
5) I spam putrid when I have nothing to do to make sure I have all the cropse control
6) I follow to martyr trapper if I am being hit.

No offense, I don't see 90% rank 9+ iwayer have half of the knowledge from the above.

Everyone in my IWAY group does all of these things... everyone knows what they are doing and can read the flow of the battle and pick up what hurts us and how to stop it and capitalize on other teams mistakes. Our martyr protects our necros, we take out mesmers that hurt the necros first, kill spiker 1st instead of monks, don't over extend from orders and rarely is our orders blamed for not healing because everyone knows orders isn't a monk (but how good he is you wouldn't know the difference). We do all of those things that seperates a good player from a bad one. It seems like everything that has been said that IWAYers don't do, my Iway does do. Also... we very very rarely lose to other IWAY teams. I would say about 90% of our HoH sessions we make it halls. We are not "brainless iwayers" in any sense. This is my experience with the ranked iway I play with but obviously not the experience many of you have had.

Mainly my point is that there are some iway teams out there that know there stuff and know what they are doing. I don't think its right to call every one who plays Iway a noob b/c you might be suprised to find that many of them are not. I don't think the high amount of Iway hate is fair. If you don't like the build, don't play it. If you lose to Iway don't show more hate by complaining, show hate through your combat by defeating Iway. If you lose to iway... then you've lost to a bunch of noobs right? What does that make you? Why do people look at it as a bunch of noobs becuase if the team you are on is such a better build filled with better players than on the Iway your about to face then why does your team lose? If you beat Iway then congradulations, you've beaten a bunch of noobs (well according to most people in this thread they are noobs), what an accomplishment. Am I right?
I mean people need to get real, any decent team can beat at the very least 80% of the Iway they will face so what is the problem? And if the team does lose then did you ever consider that maybe the players on the iway team you lost too might also be skilled and are not noobs. Have all of you iway bashers ever considered that you lost to players that are better than you rather than having lost to a bunch of noobs. I mean if your so great then why are you losing to noobs? Ya sure most iway teams are made up of people that just plain suck, but I think there should at least be some credit given to those iway teams that do know what they are doing. I only see credit given to iway in HoH is when it is an exceptionaly good non-Iway team (good meaning skilled) versus and exceptionaly good Iway team. Win or lose both teams relize that their opponent is not comprised of noobs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

IWAY works because it stomps people for making mistakes, and people in HA tend to make a lot of dumb mistakes.

I don't know if anyone else on this thread has looked at it this way, but I see IWAY as a filter. IWAY filters the good teams from the bad ones. Good teams defeat IWAY and go on to win Halls. Bad teams lose to IWAY. Iway even filters itself out.

NOTE: and yes 99.9% of all rank 9s are egotistical jerks. No respect for what anyone else, think they are always right, get angry at constructive criticism, but criticize everyone else on the team (ussually not constructive despite their vast rank9 experience), and are notorious for rage quitting at the most innconcievable moments (ex: is when my friend was holding halls w/ a few rank 9s and one rage quits while they are holding b/c a hex was not removed fast enought, I mean skills do have recharge times, not to mention after his rage quit another 2 r9 followed his lead and also rage quit)

tafy69 · May 13, 2006, 09:06 AM // 09:06

IWAY was overpowered when it was bugged, but now they fixed the attack speed, attack debuffs and the hod helms its not even hard to beat imo.

A lot of the problem is people thinking they can drop some anti warrior skills or characters because IWAY got nerfed, fatal mistake there.

shardfenix · May 13, 2006, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by luilui

what r u trying to say???

isnt that a known fact that 90% of the iwayers are in general dont have a good understanding of the game and are rather stupid. Or u r just trying to confirm it.

Actually 100% of the iwayers (i mean people who do only iway, not people who only do it a little) have no understanding of the game. I especially hate fighting against iway in halls, because so little of them have ever been there and they dont know how to win.
The reason people IWAY is because it's easy (so easy a retard could do it...and I mean this literally), and making a group is fast and easy. EVERYONE knows how to put together an IWAY. Unfortunately, people are still addicted to it even after the skill IWAY got nerfed, and they do not realize it is a useless skill. I still see some W/R's trying to stack iway with TF like it's gonna do something.
I actually started doing IWAY because I was really bored, and because Order Of Apostacy makes iway way way way way way way way way too good. It's easy to win when enemy enchantments don't matter.
I personally HATE, even LOATHE iway players, because when you try to fit them in a balance group, they have no f***ing clue what the heck they're doing. They think attacking random targets for rank makes them good, and they are very very wrong.

lord of shadow · May 13, 2006, 04:12 PM // 16:12

I think some summing up needs to be done, and I like summing up so here goes:
Iway is seen as a "noob build" because a disorganised iway will roll and disorganised anything else.
It is played so frequently by new players because of both the above and the short amount of time required to make a party.
It is one of a very few builds that does not require vent to be effective (that's not to say it doesnt help)

HOWEVER
To say iway requires no skill is imho utter RED ENGINE etc. Just because a disorganised iway team is semi-effective does not mean a good iway team has no skill. Decent iway has tactics, it certainly needs skill and is (when played correctly) a very effective pressure build for the HA setting.

IWAY is not overpowered, it was when it was bugged- but now it is no better than any other build when both are played well, it just has an advantage when both teams are inexperienced.

JR · May 13, 2006, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustysilver

I don't know if anyone else on this thread has looked at it this way, but I see IWAY as a filter. IWAY filters the good teams from the bad ones. Good teams defeat IWAY and go on to win Halls. Bad teams lose to IWAY. Iway even filters itself out.

Heh, that is an interested way of looking at it. I'm not sure that it makes it a good thing though. I would rather bad teams lost to good teams, and maybe learnt something from it, rather than lose to IWAY. IWAY makes me sad; it is a build that doesn't even really merit existing.

As far as I am concerned, the ethos of a competitive PvP game is playing to win, and metagaming. IWAY is neither, it is just running a build that is efficient at farming fame, not winning. Basicly if you play IWAY regularly, I do not consider you a competitive player. You are volountarily grinding for fame, not simply earning it as a side effect of being good.

The simple fact is; IWAY is a gimmick build. The problem with gimmick builds is that they can be completely countered fairly easily. If you play IWAY, regardless of your skill level as players, you WILL lose eventually. It is inevitable. Personally I would rather run a build that has the ability to win given any conditions, through actually out-playing the other team.

rustysilver · May 15, 2006, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

If you play IWAY, regardless of your skill level as players, you WILL lose eventually. It is inevitable. Personally I would rather run a build that has the ability to win given any conditions, through actually out-playing the other team.

Actually... last night I made it to halls using a modded iway with NO skips. Yep... thats right 8 consectutive wins, I think about 4 were flawless (does that count as out playing the other team or not?), and then we sat in the vault for a few minutes. Unfortuantely we couldn't capture the altar b/c it was four teams and we had to fight another team (also a modded iway, but modded differently than ours) to enter the area where the altar was and the holding team FSeason spiked us so we never entered the altar room.

But overall I think balanced has the most potential of all the builds. The only reason I think that our iway team is so successful is that every member of the team plays other builds than just iway so we are all skilled players. In fact, later that night we disbanned and three of us stayed together and started a balanced group.

I would say that the reason iway is disliked so much is because its run too often by inexperienced players so it gets old after a while. For example... blood spike teams are really good b/c they are run by teams made up of experience players b/c if inexperienced players run it, it is a cotastrophy. If iway were more like blood spike, less common, but ussually a really good team, I don't think it would be as hated.