Curse

JR · Jun 14, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

Learn to identify humor and sarcasm...I threw that in there because trying to cripple a touch ranger while he can still touch you is a waste of energy and will only get yourself crippled. But you're smart enough I didn't need to spell that out for you...right?

Apologies, this thread has already crippled my sense of humor.

*bum bum*

Divineshadows · Jun 14, 2006, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoyalSoldier

1. The build is very effect against monks. The monks that survive the best against it are Healing monks. Prot monks just die because their spells do nothing.

While I agreed with all your other points, this one is just flat out wrong. This build is horrible against any monk build played by an intelligent monk. Prot monks actually have an advantage over healing monks when kiting from a toucher, because they can occassionally stop and cast reversal in 1/4 second (as opposed to a 3/4 second or 1 second heal) and then get right back to moving.

This build is effective against mending wammos with concrete shoes and nothing more:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

Besides, it insults my integrity as a warrior to suggest that I kite something

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loch

When comparing DPS's of different classes, you shouldn't take into account how much can and will be mitigated. As Ensign said in the "Why Nuking Sucks" topic, the raw numbers say the most because it's those numbers that force you to mitigate the damage in some way or another.

Yeah, I've read that entire article before. Fair point on the damage mitigation through kiting not being considered as a factor when calculating potential DPS. However, assuming no kiting taking place and even with offering of blood and 16 expertise the touch ranger's DPS does begin to taper downward.

master_of_puppets · Jun 14, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

The reason people use this build IMO is because of the opponents. This is RA where 90% of people have stupid builds, dont even bring rez, dont have proper runes/ armor, attack random targets, and have no organisation whatsoever. Very easy to play and pretty effective against noobs. Even IWAY warrior is harder to play than this.

LoyalSoldier · Jun 15, 2006, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

While I agreed with all your other points, this one is just flat out wrong. This build is horrible against any monk build played by an intelligent monk. Prot monks actually have an advantage over healing monks when kiting from a toucher, because they can occassionally stop and cast reversal in 1/4 second (as opposed to a 3/4 second or 1 second heal) and then get right back to moving.

This build is effective against mending wammos with concrete shoes and nothing more:

Inteligence is always a factor. Though in my general experience the Prot monks will not live as long. They add enough pressure that when another helps attack the monk it is too much most of the time.

A smart monk is always much harder to kill.

Mr_Unlucky · Jun 21, 2006, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I wouldn't really agree with that; at all.

Ether Renewal smite was sick, and if you ran it well you would probably have a large amount of success with it. It was actually a good build to run. Touch Rangers are just a gimmick, nothing more.

We went into TA the other day, with two anti-melee/degen hexers, an axe Warrior and a Boon Prot. No snares at all. Came up against a team of four touch rangers... it was over in about two minutes. Good players will beat them.

Could it be me with random arena team.? I was trying to build quickshot ranger and got teamed up with 2 touchers and 1 interrupter ranger. We went through all the teams that time in RA like hot knife thru butter, it was insane. Then eventually lose at TA to a team of two degens. Mesmer and necro 1 monk and 1 warrior, we lost like 10-0 in death count map. So good team and coordination will win touchers but in Randoms its godly.

-Deviance- · Jun 21, 2006, 12:29 PM // 12:29

I have found an easy way to beat touches ... with a W/Mo I have no idea how you would beat them. With a W/R you can you Beastial Fury, Penetrating Chop, Disrupting Chop, Executioner's Strike, Eviscerate,Troll Ungent, Rez sig

This build makes you strike fast enough to where when you get your adrenaline the attack dmg will overide the touch ranger's healing. Usually Troll Ungent will keep most of the dmg away, but you have to kill the ranger fast because when troll ungeant runs out then he can kil you. As for the stances I have never had trouble outwaiting the stances. I just keep standing there and attacking and after about 5 seconds my guy starts hitting him again ....

Divineshadows · Jun 21, 2006, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Before the server shutdown last night, I was advising a guild on GvG and it saddened me to see that they actually thought that touch ranger is a good build. They had actually regressed since the last time I had met with them (about a couple months back), so I spent significantly more time trying to help them this time around (a 30 minute scrimmage followed by a 90 minute Q & A session).

I explained basic things and was quite shocked they did not know:

- Warriors can spike
- Domination mesmers do not do [much] damage. Rather their damage is virtual in the sense of healing that does not come on time or shutting down key parts of the opposition's defense.
- Knockdown and snares are powerful effects.

For the love of god people please stop playing touch ranger builds and giving players that do not know better the wrong impression. These players see a touch ranger own a non-kiting warrior and draw the conclusion that it is a strong build that they should therefore play

. Am I going to have to bust out with my vampire hunter build (persistence crippling anguish mesmer) again to control their population?

MrScaRy · Jun 21, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Some points:

-Funny how people think touch rangers can kill a decent monk 1v1, boon prot or otherwise because they can't. The touch ranger will run out of energy before the monk goes down to half health, with reversals every few secs.. In a team game, a monk should be able to keep up his team and himself long enough for his teammates to kill other people. If you are unable to do so, there is clearly something wrong. If you are unable to defend yourself against a touch ranger in a strictly 1v1 situation as a boon prot, then something is clearly wrong too.

-There are so many counters to touch rangers its not funny... it's definitely a gimmick build but there are so many new people in RA that they just don't know how kill them.

And to be honest, a lot of RA touch rangers I've seen don't even know how to use a touch ranger build, they're just copy cats.

Excabus · Jun 23, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

I like to run a axe warrior and have killed a number of touchers 1v1, usaully I either kill them or they run away and dont come back. I use simply, tiger stance to get lots of adrenaline, then if they hit whirling, hit warriors cunning to keep pounding on them ;> I usaully wait for them to hit whirling cause they are so cookie cutter (the usaully hit it when low on health) I save my adrenaline for when they do that, cause then I can slice right through it with my adrenaline attacks and end them. (Dont forget purge conditions!!)

suiraCLAW · Jun 23, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Some tips:

Quote:

Originally Posted by exabus

tiger stance

Learn to use frenzy, and love it.

Quote:

warriors cunning

Wild blow > warriors cunning

Quote:

purge conditions

Plague touch >>>>>>>>>>>> Purge conditions, or even better: find somebody with condition removal.

Guitary Boy · Jun 23, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

D I V E R S I O N- How hard can it be, at 16 domination they little touch skills take 59 seconds to recharge, so they screwed, 2 or 3 diversioned and they totaly done for, as i have said before they are dead before you can say "touch noob"

LightningHell · Jun 24, 2006, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guitary Boy

D I V E R S I O N- How hard can it be, at 16 domination they little touch skills take 59 seconds to recharge, so they screwed, 2 or 3 diversioned and they totaly done for, as i have said before they are dead before you can say "touch noob"

MoR it.

platinumfoil · Jun 24, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

hehe.. the infamous Toucher

i run in an ally team in AB most o the time, and more often then not
we run into them....
however, we decided 2 bring along blackout... and range damage them
untill they reach melee distance. 1 uses the BO, while rest finishes him off.
myself use a spike/interupt build and have BO on the side, which will give the high damage needed b4 the blackout. since it only last a few secs.
nonetheless, we still playin around with some other skills 2 reduce the deaths on our side vs the touchers... diversion, arcane thievery is mentioned

anyhew... hope this will bring some more ideas in the pot 2 get rid of them annoyin R/Nec's ... no offence

Obus · Jun 24, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

This is random arena. There is no such thing as switching targets. If you are who the touch ranger targets when he first presses "c", you are going to have to deal with him for the rest of the match.

rofl its funny because its true

i usually leave them until i build up axe-adrenaline then just unload damage(with team)

Isil`Zha · Jun 26, 2006, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

Touch rangers piss me off mainly because they're essentially doing to TA/RA/AB what old ether renewal smite did to tombs, to a lesser extent. Sure there are many ways of shutting them down (hexes being the only really effective way of doing so), but they're dead easy to play, and put out a lot of damage while healing themselves.

ANet conveniently added in 2 vampiric bite skills. They also conveniently added in 2 versions of dodge, which together with jacked up expertise happens to be the best speed boost touch rangers could hope for. 33% speed boost with ~75% arrow evasion to dodge those interrupts. They even have an elite spot open for escape or hell, even oath shot. Whirling defense anyone? Vampiric skills also conveniently ignore dodge/evade stances, anti-spell and anti-attack countermeasures and pretty much everything other than spiteful spirit. Oh look at that, rangers also have the highest elemental armor. Hexes (and endless kiting, which takes you out of the game also) are your only salvation, and those can be dealt with by other classes.

People seem to always assume an idiot is at the controlling end of every touch ranger. There are very easy ways to play it properly and make a killer group of touch rangers and some support character, not to mention how deadly they can be in random fights. They are easily outplayed in GvG and HA, but in pretty much every other place they're a huge pain in the arse. I don't see why ANet had to make duplicates of the few skills that made touch rangers a pain.

Eh, they're not that great really. I've never had a one on one with a touch ranger that I didn't win as my Assassin - with several different builds. The most amussing is this, and it works quite well ----> Mirrored stance at max range, then AoD and attack with Golden Phoenix to get their attention: 90% of the time they hit a stance and attack me. I start running and hit em with enduring toxin - which amussingly 99% of all players never stop so that it'll wear off, and I have it at level 10 for -4 degen. Then, having their stances so they can never catch me, I know the exact second their stance wears off, at which point I turn around and knock them down then hit them with so much spike damage they die before they get up. My full combo will nearly kill them if they're at full health, after a sprint with Enduring Toxin on they're down a good 25% on health or so and I usually don't even have to finish the full combo - and poof, they're dead.

Also, instead of Mirriored stance I can usually just get to the knockdown before they can get into a stance - this means I get to hit em with my full combo leaving them at ~ 10-15% health on average, with -10 degen. Apply crippled with caltrops and laugh as they die cause they can't catch you or anyone else to heal. Hit with enduring toxin as well for -14 so troll unguent doesn't do shit either. Laugh hysterically.

This is actually the most common situation I have when running into Touch Rangers.

My other Assassin build is to use Dancing Daggers, Entangling Asp, and Palm Strike + another duel attack. Fill other skills with ones that have same affects as above and they're still owned. (Thier stances are useless against Dancing, Asp, and Palm Strike)

So it's a n00bish, skilless build that's extremely easy to use with stupid resistances (one of those skills needs to be made into a spell, or longer recharge times), and overall not very impressive end effect.

jummeth · Jun 27, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by suiraCLAW

Some tips:

Learn to use frenzy, and love it.

Wild blow > warriors cunning

Plague touch >>>>>>>>>>>> Purge conditions, or even better: find somebody with condition removal.

Wild blow is ridiculous to suggest here since you lose all your adrenaline. Tigers fury is frenzy w/o the dbl damage drawback. However frenzy is just great when used well.

I don't see how you can be a W/R with purge.... =/

Purge is for condition stacks, although a monk should be on the case anyway.

shardfenix · Jun 27, 2006, 01:22 AM // 01:22

R/N touch rangers are built for fighting warriors 1v1 because it requires no thinking to play, which is why if you play one you are a total Ernie.

How to beat a touch ranger:
Use an assassin and tickle them senseless. Golden lotus + horns + spiker + twisting = gg on squishies.

STOP PLAYING TOUCH RANGERS, YOU AREN'T GOOD, HOPPERS.

To JR: I personally PM'd myself for you, to save you the trouble of telling me not to flame on players who play cheap builds because they have no better ideas to win.

Edited by Dralspire.

Isil`Zha · Jun 27, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29

That's basically the combo I use with my Assassin, though I was doing it before most everyone else.

I started out with a regular combo chain til I noticed Golden Phoenix and thought it went great with my build, especially since I used AoD.

EDIT: Oh, and Touch Rangers get absolutely raped by Elementalists. At least that's the case when I play as mine. So again, it's not that it bugs me cause they're "so good" (as so many Touch Rangers in-game seem to believe), it's actually cause they SUCK and I'm tired of half our team and the enemy team being n00b Rangers.

Hengis · Jun 27, 2006, 11:14 AM // 11:14

My N/Me can kill touchers pretty easily as long as the melee classes leave him alone to die LOL.

Cripple/snare/heavy degen and maybe one interupt if he has Troll equipped = dead toucher as long as no one goes in close enough for him to start the vampiric bite/vampiric touches etc.

Sakashi · Jun 27, 2006, 04:56 PM // 16:56

They can be beaten. It's just that they are easy to play, and are self sufficient. Which results in them becoming like a horde of zombies or something on GW.