Curse

suiraCLAW · Jun 24, 2006, 10:21 AM // 10:21

http://gwshack.us/342d4

Yes, I know what aftercast is and I do know that afterspike shouldn't be calculated, but there isn't another way.

Steps:
-Recurring insecurity and Soul Barbs are used at the same time, preferable on a mesmer.
-everybody uses his first hex = 226 dmg
-Shatter delusions hit = 75+96 dmg added = total of 397 dmg
-Icy veins and Shard storm hit = +243 dmg = total of 640 dmg

I think it's fairly good 3 man spike, but atm it isn't unstoppable at all (a lucky timed heal other from a ele and a rof from a monk solve the problem)...

The spike can be repeated every 25 secs (increasing this speed would be somewhat impossible because of energy problems)...

Any tips to improve this build are welcome (the rest isn't).

Kabale · Jun 24, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

How sure can you be that you will shatter the phantom pain every time? You might accidentally end up shatting the Wastrel's from the other mes, no?

I'd say... Accumulated Pain would work better in this situation, also allowing you to spec into Illusion and bring other yummy stuff (distortion perhaps)

TheOneMephisto · Jun 24, 2006, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabale

How sure can you be that you will shatter the phantom pain every time? You might accidentally end up shatting the Wastrel's from the other mes, no?

I'd say... Accumulated Pain would work better in this situation, also allowing you to spec into Illusion and bring other yummy stuff (distortion perhaps)

Agreed, of course shatter does add damage with whatever you shatter...

Servant of Kali · Jun 24, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

It's a fun build, i lost once to it but only because we totally did not expect it. The spikes cost alot of energy, as you said yourself (25 sec). That's a LOT of time in TA. Suprise factor (like 'wtf how did i die that fast') can give you the edge, but after they go "ah i see the skills..." the effectivness of the build goes down the drain. Basically, fast rez wins the match. Yes, you kill fast, and so did the other teams i encountered before, but once team is rezed they.. just stood there, exhausted and out of energy.

Still, it's a fun build, i like hexing and all that, and am glad to see non-air mesmer in TA. Especially water one since i almost never see them.

As for constructive suggestions - remove Diversion. I dont see how that helps in this build. Put switch WW to that mesmer instead of the other one.

Why E-drain instead of MoRecall? I find it unreliable.. sometimes it just chances that you e-drain someone who has more or less no energy or very little. MoRecall always gives energy, it's not situational, and it's a cover enchantment. I dont play boon prot btw

so... am curious of the logic of e-drain.

suiraCLAW · Jun 24, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

http://gwshack.us/19e9f, damn interrupters

Anyway:
- Shatter Delusion would be used ~3secs after the use of recurring
- Wastrel's worry would be used ~4.5 secs after using soul barbs (wich should be used at the same time as recurring)
In other words: I can't imagine that SD shatters the wrong hex...

The reason why I prefer PP -> SD is because of the (small) damage bonus.

Quote:

Why E-drain instead of MoRecall? I find it unreliable.. sometimes it just chances that you e-drain someone who has more or less no energy or very little. MoRecall always gives energy, it's not situational, and it's a cover enchantment. I dont play boon prot btw so... am curious of the logic of e-drain.

Personal favor + e-drain can be used after being ressed, wich is a important advantage in TA. (seems logical that if you have multiple monks you can survive a situation where one of them can't do anything but spamming sigs after being ressed, but if you have only 1 scource of healing it's a whole different story)

DieInBasra · Jun 24, 2006, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Is a damage bonus of 50 worth two skills slots and a chance to miss the deep wound? I really can't think of a worse eleite then Shatter stone, I'd strongly recomend something esle. Ends up being 150 damage, but only after three seconds, which is alot to ask. 40 damage can be gotten from better, non-elite skills. Maybe Ice Spikes->Shard storm, and ele attune as the elite. maybe add another reccuring there as his elite, it doesn't need any points in illusion to serve it's purpose. But yeah, looks pretty nice, gj.

NatalieD · Jun 24, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

I fought a team doing the Soul Barbs thing last night, but with a somewhat different build... I don't think they had any water magic, and there was a N/A for some reason. I can't tell you what hexes they used, since I didn't have nearly enough time to recognize them all before dying.

It was really unpleasant to fight. I wouldn't call it a spike, because there was plenty of time to throw in multiple heals, but those heals were never enough. The target just died no matter what I did. (I was monking.) I'm also not sure how they kept from dying, I didn't see any hexes or conditions on us except during the "spike", and they only had the one monk, but somehow we couldn't kill any of them. Unpleasant.

So yeah, I don't have any particular suggestions, but it does seem to be possible to make Soul Barbs work very well.

suiraCLAW · Jun 25, 2006, 08:20 AM // 08:20

That N/A was probably to use impale and/or mark of death, both are 1/4 sec cast and a hex wich makes them perfect for this job...

Anyway: http://gwshack.us/e624b, a lot more utility now...

Apok Omen · Jun 25, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Uh dude, your e/mo has Healing 10 + 1.... I hope you know that that cannot happen, as monk secondaries are not effected by runes...

ease · Jun 25, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Soul barbs caster takes Assasin's Promise for his elite, not icy veins. AP will recharge all skills when tgt dies. It will also recharge itself. So the 20 seconds recast of soul barbs becomes 7-8 seconds. For player 3 I have used a fast cast necro with recurring insecurity and low cost quick recharge hexes. The limiting factor is RI. You need 2 copies due to the longish recharge(25 seconds). Dont really need elmo for TA.

Ease

remmeh · Jun 26, 2006, 01:56 AM // 01:56

SB is countered easily by:

Convert Hexes (on an E/Mo blindbot)
Dwayna's Kiss (if for whatever reason you're running a heal monk in TA)
Expel Hexes (if you manage to get Soul Barbs/Recurring Insecurity real fast)

or just stick an interrupter/KD/disruption on the mesmer with RI or necro with SB.

Enduring Toxin is the assassin hex you're thinking of. It's meh... if the target stops moving it becomes useless. but sometimes they panic and keep moving...

Personally I'd rather focus on shutting down the spike before trying to heal through it.

NatalieD · Jun 26, 2006, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by remmeh

SB is countered easily by:

Convert Hexes (on an E/Mo blindbot)

Wouldn't they just target the E/Mo after you stop their first try?

Zui · Jun 26, 2006, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Actualy, Remmeh, you'll always get RI with expel hexes, since it's reapplied with every new hex.

Since RI is half the damage, the spike is effectively gimped.

suiraCLAW · Jun 26, 2006, 09:58 AM // 09:58

http://gwshack.us/db851, srry about that healing 10+1.

@ease, how do you counter the huge energy requirement on those mesmers (20 to 30 energy each spike)? Seems nice but 25 secs isn't that bad + you have a lot more utility

.

@remmeh there are other topics about counters for a sb-spike.

Van Goghs Ear · Jun 26, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

I lost to the sb spike only once on a tactical error, and have since beat the current fotm build cookie cutter build too many times to count. Bring a convert hexes emo and a expel mesmer and it's gg. The current state of the ta metagame is hexes, hexes, and even more hexes, so pack some good hex removal and you won't have any problems. Make sure you keep you e/mo converter way back so they don't spike him/her as convert is target other ally. Also been running an NR/Tranq build that completely rocks any hex team out there atm.

IMO, sb spike is no better than a 4 man touch group...it's a noob farming build, nothing more.

NatalieD · Jun 26, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Goghs Ear

I lost to the sb spike only once on a tactical error, and have since beat the current fotm build cookie cutter build too many times to count. Bring a convert hexes emo and a expel mesmer and it's gg. The current state of the ta metagame is hexes, hexes, and even more hexes, so pack some good hex removal and you won't have any problems. Make sure you keep you e/mo converter way back so they don't spike him/her as convert is target other ally.

I was trying a Blessed Light build, which should've worked well against degen-based teams but wasn't much good against Soul Barbs.

Quote:

Also been running an NR/Tranq build that completely rocks any hex team out there atm.

Heh, I fought you guys. Metagaming ftw! Nice build, though I wouldn't say you "completely rocked" us. Then, we did have a warrior as well all the hexes.

How well does that build do against hexless balanced teams? I've been wondering that since we fought.

jummeth · Jun 26, 2006, 11:38 PM // 23:38

NR backed with a lot of physical pressure will hurt any team with a monk and casters.

You just can't cope with the pressure.
Dunno about linking it with a touch ranger build, since it does actually take co-ordination to actually pull off nicely, the first hit at least is almost uncounterable... ie. the < 2 second kill.

TheOneMephisto · Jun 26, 2006, 11:59 PM // 23:59

NR still plays havoc with boonprots. The only team that isn't effected is a hexless balanced with a healer monk.

NatalieD · Jun 27, 2006, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

NR still plays havoc with boonprots. The only team that isn't effected is a hexless balanced with a healer monk.

Obviously NR is going to affect nearly every team to some extent. That's not at all what I was asking about.

jummeth, it wasn't actually that much pressure, from what I recall. We just had a lot of trouble getting anything done since half our team was hex-based.

Van Goghs Ear · Jun 27, 2006, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

I was trying a Blessed Light build, which should've worked well against degen-based teams but wasn't much good against Soul Barbs.

Heh, I fought you guys. Metagaming ftw! Nice build, though I wouldn't say you "completely rocked" us. Then, we did have a warrior as well all the hexes.

How well does that build do against hexless balanced teams? I've been wondering that since we fought.

yesterday we were running 2 people completely new to the build so at times it wasn't as smooth as possible, and also none of us are on vent. The build pretty much shuts down any build that relies on hexes or enchantments. Since dual smite and hex stack teams have really become dominant in TA, we started to run this build about a week and a half ago and have been tweeking it ever since. Our goal is to see if we can change the TA metagame

We also had no problems dealing with any other teams since so many rely so heavily on enchants. The only teams that put up a very good fight against us were fish's wither degen build and fame's qz pressure build, but we still prevailed.

it's not an easy build to run and there are some weaknesses of which I don't care to share at this time

Tactics and positioning are everything in this build, it's no noob tube build to run that is for sure.

on an aside, despite the challenge of new players and no vent we went 30 unchallenged (until I err7'd)...and I would've been a deadly gladiator last night if it wasn't for that...oh well, tonight... ><