Curse

Xaero Gouki Kriegor · May 31, 2006, 03:34 AM // 03:34

When it comes to GvGing i prefer healing signet over endure pain, endure pain allows you to raise your health enough instanly so taht the monk has time to heal you but its temporary, healing signet is a straight out heal that allows you to be self sufficient. I was tryn to argue a point agaisnt endure pain, but the person in my guild just doesnt agree that healing signet I think is better then Endure Pain, I would like to read other people's opinions on which is more superior in GvG, Endure Pain or Healing Signet . . . to me, Healing Signet ALL THE WAY, a warrior just doesnt seem like a warrior without healing signet or any TACTICS

ikickedbutt · May 31, 2006, 04:36 AM // 04:36

well tactics is a PvE attrribute, i agree healing signet is far superior, because of splitting and such. Splitting and the fact that if you are using an actual heal your monks DONT HAVE TO WASTE ENERGY. Yes thats right, just tell him that if a warrior uses heal sig, it is 100 health that a monk doesnt have to heal. An endure pain makes the monk heal that 100 you could have gotten from a sig.

Kern Wolf · May 31, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

I'm curious; how do you counter the loss of armor if you use the healing sig? I'm a PvE player (W/E using Glad's Armor), and was wondering if you use better armor to offset that armor reduction loss...

Evilsod · May 31, 2006, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakumo

Either use something to increase armor like Dolyak Signet, "Watch Yourself!", etc

Or something to evade/block attacks... Bonetti's Defense, Deadly Riposte, Riposte, etc.

Or just don't be a tit and use it under heavy attack. If you've got a Jade Armour looming over you... your not gonna gain anything. If you've got a Heretic spamming degen at you, doesn't matter. Just make sure if your attacking things with high damage attacks (Mursaat Eles and Chain Lightning) that you time it in between spells. Using siggy is easy if you pay attention to whats going on.
Obviously don't try and use if you have Rust on you either

Kern Wolf · May 31, 2006, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Or just don't be a tit and use it under heavy attack. If you've got a Jade Armour looming over you... your not gonna gain anything. If you've got a Heretic spamming degen at you, doesn't matter. Just make sure if your attacking things with high damage attacks (Mursaat Eles and Chain Lightning) that you time it in between spells. Using siggy is easy if you pay attention to whats going on.
Obviously don't try and use if you have Rust on you either

Evilsod, are you talking in terms of PvE? I was asking in terms of PvP....
Also, in terms of W/E's in PvP, is there a reason that I see them being used as mainly "shock" warriors? In watching quite a few matches, I don't recall seeing them using too many other Ele skills; I understand (I THINK) that the casting time is a big drawback, especially if you're in a melee; I'm just wondering if there were any other combos that would be viable for a W/E in PvP..

Jetdoc · May 31, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55

In PvP, Endure Pain is really used to buy time for your monk if you're getting spiked, while Healing Signet is primarily used if you need to split.

Clinically Proven · Jun 01, 2006, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kern Wolf

Evilsod, are you talking in terms of PvE? I was asking in terms of PvP....
Also, in terms of W/E's in PvP, is there a reason that I see them being used as mainly "shock" warriors? In watching quite a few matches, I don't recall seeing them using too many other Ele skills; I understand (I THINK) that the casting time is a big drawback, especially if you're in a melee; I'm just wondering if there were any other combos that would be viable for a W/E in PvP..

Shock is used due to the knockdown which is great for interrupting longer casting times (eg. meteor shower, heal party), ghostly's "claim resourse" skill and for snaring pesky kiting softies.

The energy pool and natural regen for a warrior is dismally small and thus, as you stated, makes high cost ele spells particularly unrealisitic, while other ele often just arent that useful on a warrior. You may occasionally see the Hammer/Aftershock combo but its kinda rare.

As for earlier in the thread, and along the lines that others have said, I view Healing Signet as a 'permanent heal' more suited to PvP, where as a warrior, you may be required to solo spirits/NPCs/runners outside of the healing circle. While Endure will keep you up and going in these situations (for a limited time) and without discounting Endure's usefullness vs. spike, I find Healing Signet to be a much more worthwhile skill overall.

Ole Man Bourbon · Jun 02, 2006, 06:21 AM // 06:21

I like Endure Pain a little more than HS, because it can't be interrupted, is instantaneous, doesn't cause weaker armor, and doesn't require an investment in Tactics. EP does wear off though.

frickaline · Jun 03, 2006, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Well, dont know if this helps but most of the better guilds are running healing signet in gvgs.

Greedy Gus · Jun 03, 2006, 02:47 PM // 14:47

-Heal sig helps ease healing pressure off the monks, endure doesn't.

-Healing sig is much better in split scenarios where you're without a monk, endure is largely irrelevant there.

-Endure pain makes you near impossible to spike if used wisely, heal sig is garbage against a spike.

To me it's completely based on the build. If you've got 2 heal parties and don't plan on splitting your warrior off, sure give him endure. If you've got no heal party but a shelter spammer, you're going to be better off with heal sig.

If your build isn't a power 8v8 build, but a more metagamed utility box based off winning through tactics, you probably want heal sig to keep your options open. (This is probably one of the main reasons you see the top guilds running healing sig, and what gives people the impression that it's solidly better than endure and they build up a rather illogical disdain toward endure.)

TheOneMephisto · Jun 03, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

The thing is that most good builds are these utility box builds, just because by using flexibility and superior tactics you can easily out-play an 8v8 build.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jun 03, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Healing Signet all the way, but if you are chain running flags with a warrior I would prefer to have endure pain just when he goes in to cap.

Greedy Gus · Jun 03, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

The thing is that most good builds are these utility box builds, just because by using flexibility and superior tactics you can easily out-play an 8v8 build.

I disagree. How "easy" it is to outplay them depends entirely on how "superior" your tactics really are, how powerful their build is, what map they've chosen, and just exactly how much and what kind of utility you packed into your build. If you've noticed, in all of the past tournaments, I'd say there have been at least 1/4th of the teams who got in with power builds, whether spike, heavy pressure, whatever, and not by tactically outplaying all of their opponents. Those are teams who are able to dominate on the ladder, even against the types of toolbox builds that prefer fighting other metagame utility-packed balanced builds.

Now whether they do well in the tournament setting is to be discussed elsewhere; the point is, they're winning more points than you 50-150 ranked guilds that observe and worship EvIL and others and go to the forums to dump on the 'unskilled' teams that are making it into tournaments.

These are the type of people I was referencing: they view their favorite type of builds as the end-all best, and will shit on endure pain until they turn blue in the face, even though it may fit better in a build than heal sig. Hell, a lot of my friends and smart people I know fall in this category.

Eonwe · Jun 03, 2006, 08:16 PM // 20:16

In general Healing Signet is going to allow your warrior to be much more flexible and allow him to kill npcs and such on his own. Whether or not that fits your team's play style is the question you need to ask when making specific skill choices like this. Also, if you have two warriors, it is possible that only one of your warriors needs a Healing Signet, and the other warrior that does not have one can just stay with the main team in split/gank situations.

What it comes down to is what you need to make the character fit better into your build as a whole. Do you already have a character that can deal with someone else in a 1v1 situation? Just because you see these other teams running Healing Signet on their warriors does not mean that it is necessarily the best option for your build.

Helll is for Heroes · Jun 03, 2006, 08:16 PM // 20:16

both of them are good.

endure pain for HA.
Healing signet for GvG.

Vindexus · Jun 03, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Metagame dependent. Healing Signet is better for splitting and against degen. Endure Pain is good against spike.

TheOneMephisto · Jun 04, 2006, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

I disagree. How "easy" it is to outplay them depends entirely on how "superior" your tactics really are, how powerful their build is, what map they've chosen, and just exactly how much and what kind of utility you packed into your build. If you've noticed, in all of the past tournaments, I'd say there have been at least 1/4th of the teams who got in with power builds, whether spike, heavy pressure, whatever, and not by tactically outplaying all of their opponents. Those are teams who are able to dominate on the ladder, even against the types of toolbox builds that prefer fighting other metagame utility-packed balanced builds.

Now whether they do well in the tournament setting is to be discussed elsewhere; the point is, they're winning more points than you 50-150 ranked guilds that observe and worship EvIL and others and go to the forums to dump on the 'unskilled' teams that are making it into tournaments.

These are the type of people I was referencing: they view their favorite type of builds as the end-all best, and will shit on endure pain until they turn blue in the face, even though it may fit better in a build than heal sig. Hell, a lot of my friends and smart people I know fall in this category.

I wasn't hating on other builds. I was just stating that most power builds CAN be maneuvered around on most maps, and rely on using specific maps to be effective on. Fow instance, EW would have lost on almost any other map for the finals, but their map choice made them unbeatable.

These are good, solid builds. I'm just saying that they lack the flexibility of toolbox builds, making them more susceptable to being outplayed and less useful in multiple situations.

nightrunner · Jun 16, 2006, 05:37 AM // 05:37

They both have uses. Healing Sig is great for taking pressure off monks, which is very important if you're split and you only have one monk to take care of your squad. It's also perfect for topping off your HP bar.

Endure lets you overextend for a short period of time, which can be very helpful as well.

Lando Griffen · Jun 19, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

You're more than likely running 2-3 warriors. Have 1 run healing sig and another run endure pain. It's not all the difference in the world, If the outcome of your match comes down to this, then you have a good team and an even match, so the team who wins is the team who makes the best decisions. Don't bring healing sig because you want to save your monk energy, bring it because your team tactics may require it--if energy is an issue, work out some support into your build

Living Legend · Jun 20, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Endure pain=stance, as a warrior your constantly switching stances, with endure pain if you use it your just going to offset it pretty quickly either trying to run or to attack, you want to have the monks worry least amount on your warriors since there usually upfront, casters middle, monks backline, usually warriors aren't really attacked constantly so endure pain really only helps against spikes.