Curse

Draygo Korvan · Jun 27, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Yep. While air of enchantment made this build popular, its not the problem. Zealots fire is easily removed by every balanced build out there, its simply clean warriors with JI+bals aura and smite hex providing all that damage. Basically IWAY with AOE. Ward of stability, ward foe chains are effective against this build, assuming you arent clusterd in a small area.

As far as ganking goes, if they rush your base, rush thiers, with monks at your base and no monks at their base you will win simply because of the DPS cap on the guild lord, a couple of heals and your damage will beat theirs.

Aiiane · Jun 27, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draygo Korvan

As far as ganking goes, if they rush your base, rush thiers, with monks at your base and no monks at their base you will win simply because of the DPS cap on the guild lord, a couple of heals and your damage will beat theirs.

Your team members will have to deal with their NPCs, which takes time, much more time than it will take a triple smite to deal with your NPCs. In addition, due to the cramp confines in which Guild Lords are generally located, your monks will very quickly die, especially if they send one of their thumpers after them: against non-kiting foes such as a Guild Lord, the amount of damage a single smited thumper puts out is rather high, and thus they can easily keep your monks out of the equation.

Allowing a triple-smite access to your NPC area with nothing but monks to stop it is a losing proposition.

kryshnysh · Jun 27, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aiiane

Your team members will have to deal with their NPCs, which takes time, much more time than it will take a triple smite to deal with your NPCs. In addition, due to the cramp confines in which Guild Lords are generally located, your monks will very quickly die, especially if they send one of their thumpers after them: against non-kiting foes such as a Guild Lord, the amount of damage a single smited thumper puts out is rather high, and thus they can easily keep your monks out of the equation.

Allowing a triple-smite access to your NPC area with nothing but monks to stop it is a losing proposition.

If your build is offense-heavy as well, this usually seems to work. If your offense is not of comparable strength, this may not work so well.

One thing I always do (as the monk who falls back, or one of two monks to fall back) is to stay outside the guild lord room and let them get in first. Then I go and heal from outside. This allows me a lot more free room to run when they break off to chase me, and lengthens the time-cost for them to go after me. As a single boon prot, I've bought about 30 seconds of extra time doing this. Not a lot in normal GvG, but a good bit in a gank race.

Of course triple smite can easily drop back their boon prot (as we tend to do) to delay your gank and speed up their own. Then you're back to identical strategies and a weaker split usually.

cookiemonkie · Jun 27, 2006, 10:33 PM // 22:33

That nerf was hardly a "nerf" at all. The damage output of an AoE skill the "moves" along with the player should never ever be more effective or have more damage potential than a class that has a dedicated line of AoE skills, that being the Ele. Yeah, that skill was still broken even before air of enchantment came along to fuel the non-sense. Warrior / Thumper damage isn't much of an issue as there are enough warrior hate and hexes to cover this. There simply isn't enough enchantment removal going around to handle triple smites, and hexing / snaring the warriors will result in one of the triple smiters casting "smite hex" to add even more insult to injury from the moving AoE. The best counter against tripple smite at the moment is SB/Ri which punishes the smite team. Sorry, the current state of the game is at one of its low points, if moving AoE simply can not be balanced, just nerf it to being useless because it doesn't belong in a game advertised that skill dictates the outcome.

As for the Guild Lord gank split, Aiiane hit the nail on the head. Its the guild lord area you have to deal with not just the Guild Lord. Tripple smiters will drop have the area clear in half the time a great balanced build will with little effort. And when it comes to killing the guild lord, shesh 1 warrior and a smitter will be doing nearly cap damage to guild lord.

cookiemonkie · Jun 27, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by kryshnysh

If your build is offense-heavy as well, this usually seems to work. If your offense is not of comparable strength, this may not work so well.

In a balanced build, what offense is of comparable strength to triple smite? Of that max potential, how much effort do you need to do as a group to maximize that offense to deal the SUSTAINED damage to MULTIPLE NPCs that the triple smiters do in a split?

Unless its a very, very, very crappy air of enchantment tripple smite. It scale doesn't tip the balance builds way.

Corn Sword · Jun 30, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Maybe its just me, but triple smite seems incredibly easy to counter. We have only lost to it once that I can remember. Simply pressure their only main healer, spike out their smiters and they are done for. <3 triple smite, easy wins, yay =D lol.

Oren The Destroyer · Jul 05, 2006, 05:42 AM // 05:42

how lond did ether renewal last before it got killed?

mighty xxl · Jul 05, 2006, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Counter:
Take a Tainted Necro with Well of Profane. Someone dies, cast the Well and stay in it. Thumpers that attack u cannot be target of enchantments so Zealot's Fire is useless since u cannot spam enchants on thumper.

Patrograd · Jul 06, 2006, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by mighty xxl

Counter:
Take a Tainted Necro with Well of Profane. Someone dies, cast the Well and stay in it. Thumpers that attack u cannot be target of enchantments so Zealot's Fire is useless since u cannot spam enchants on thumper.

Doesn't work. Their tainted will bring putrid or consume.

Farin · Jul 06, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by mighty xxl

Counter:
Take a Tainted Necro with Well of Profane. Someone dies, cast the Well and stay in it. Thumpers that attack u cannot be target of enchantments so Zealot's Fire is useless since u cannot spam enchants on thumper.

Yeah since every build can fit a Death Necro in. How come no one thought of that, damn.

/sarcasm

mighty xxl · Jul 07, 2006, 11:58 AM // 11:58

RaZoO: i was suggestion a counter, nothing more. It is ur choice in making the build, not mine.
And i didn't saw anyone in this thread saying anything about Well of Profane. That is why i don't understand ur "/sacrcasm" or is it sarcasm?

Patrograd: We did like 6 GvG matches last night and encounter 3 smiter thumper teams. None of them had Consume corpse. We beat them all except one

Farin · Jul 07, 2006, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Yeah well I'm mexican don't expect me to have the best grammar. Thanks for the correction I guess, and you mean Suggesting, not suggestion.

Patrograd · Jul 08, 2006, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by mighty xxl

We beat them all except one

This is why the good ones bring consume corpse,

Wasteland Squidget · Jul 08, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

We've run triple smite one night, and fought against quite a lot of them. I'd say it does need a nerf, but not a really big one. It's a strong build in the same way IWAY is a strong build - anyone can pick it up and dominate better players and when played to potential it's very powerful, but still quite beatable.

Fixing AoE as Ensign suggested would probably do it. It would still be a powerful build that n00bs could pick up and own with, but probably not a whole lot stronger than IWAY or fast-cast spike.

Maiyn · Jul 08, 2006, 10:36 PM // 22:36

glyph of sacrifice might be a nice idea to get up a much needed profane.

I don't gvg much anymore so i can really only think of how to counter it in tombs :P