Curse

lord of shadow · Jul 04, 2006, 03:41 PM // 15:41

there's a difference between being a good player and being familiar with a set build and it's roles. some skills carry over- kiting, reaction time on infuses, focus swapping etc. but one cannot expect to be instanly good at any new build because they are experienced at something else: familiarity with a variety of situations and the individual roles of each player goes a long way towards a team's success and can only be achieved through practice

yesitsrob · Jul 04, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

how familiar exactly do you need to get though? 100 games seems like more than enough to me, plenty enough... there should at the very least be signs of improvement

On order of apostosy, I've heard our monks moaning about it quite often ^^ "oh crap channeling has gone!" And yeah, it's great for taking out Ghostly Heroes, I'm not sure I agree it needs a nerf, it's a costly skill after all

master_of_puppets · Jul 04, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

I'm sorry but I dont see how doing nothing but playing W/R with IWAY, Eviscerate, Executionner's Strike, Distracting Blow, Sprint, Charm Animal, Tiger's Fury and Rez Sig 3000 times makes you good or even decent player.

And back to OoA. When determining how good a skill is you cant just look at the energy cost, cast time, recharge etc. you have to look at what the skill actually does. If there was a skill that cost 40 energy, had a 5 second cast time and 90 second recharge and the effect was "All foes take 1000-5000 shadow damage", according to you IWAYers (you're obviously IWAYers if you think OoA doesnt need a nerf) and your logic, that skill wouldnt be overpowered simply because it has high energy cost and cast time

yesitsrob · Jul 04, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

according to you IWAYers (you're obviously IWAYers if you think OoA doesnt need a nerf)

or just don't play HA that often, I've come across it plenty when playing HA though, and I just don't think it's that ... overpowered. I know exactly what the skill does, it removes an enchantment when you get hit and the necro loses a percentage of his life.... how2beet

If you run a build which largely relies so much on enchantments then maybe it will hurt, because you're getting directly countered, so maybe bloodspike might get hurt by this skill, and to that i say, good

Quote:

If there was a skill that cost 40 energy, had a 5 second cast time and 90 second recharge and the effect was "All foes take 1000-5000 shadow damage"

yeah, but there isn't... the skill we're talking about just removes enchantments if target gets hit... big frickin difference imo. It's going to hurt heavily enchanted ghostlys that have the likes of healing seed on them and all that crap.

And there's also the thing that there are 4 warriors in the build that are taking advantage of it. Thing is, in a pretty balanced team, you have wards, guardians, aegis, blinding flash, all that other crap - they have to actually hit you first. If you have sufficient warrior hate, which you should, because without warrior hate you die... then you shouldn't be getting torn to pieces by this skill.

Lord Dark Genie · Jul 04, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

If there was a skill that cost 40 energy, had a 5 second cast time and 90 second recharge and the effect was "All foes take 1000-5000 shadow damage", according to you IWAYers (you're obviously IWAYers if you think OoA doesnt need a nerf) and your logic, that skill wouldnt be overpowered simply because it has high energy cost and cast time

It's ridiculous how every time I see a discussion on skill balance, someone eventually makes a post like this.

No one is saying that OoA is fine just because it's 25e + health sac. It's fine because the effect seems pretty balanced with the cost.

We're not talking about order of insta-win, it's just party-wide enchant removal...

tomcruisejr · Jul 04, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

That just proves that IWAY makes bad players.

how do you define "bad"?

a bad player = cannot play anything successfully. imho.

Wasteland Squidget · Jul 04, 2006, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

how do you define "bad"?

a bad player = cannot play anything successfully. imho.

If a player can only play one role in one build well they're not a very versatile player, but not necessarily bad.

Not all IWAY players are bad, but it's possible for bad players to play IWAY and do pretty well.

TheOneMephisto · Jul 04, 2006, 09:29 PM // 21:29

I personally think that OoA is overpowered in HA. In other places, it isn't that bad, just because enchantments aren't as required. However, HA depends on defending an NPC with stacks and stacks of enchantments. When you take into account this fact, OoA does appear to be overpowered, since you can easily strip all of those enchantments, allowing you to basically destroy the ghostly.

However, this may also be due to the nature of HA backlines. Since the best way to defend the ghostly is enchantments, people have gotten too use to the enchant protection of the ghostly. Since this was the best way for a long time, I doubt that anyone feels like trying to change it, since it is the best vs anything but OoA and because it's engrained into their heads. Therefore, when caught offguard by a skill like OoA, people are pretty screwed.

Lord Dark Genie · Jul 05, 2006, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

I personally think that OoA is overpowered in HA. In other places, it isn't that bad, just because enchantments aren't as required. However, HA depends on defending an NPC with stacks and stacks of enchantments. When you take into account this fact, OoA does appear to be overpowered, since you can easily strip all of those enchantments, allowing you to basically destroy the ghostly.

Well, even if they destroy your ghostly, they have to cap in less than 2 minutes. IWAY doesn't have much interrupt prevention. With the introduction of seeking arrows, you can pretty much interrupt a ghostly forever...

OoA destroys the holding power of Blood/FoC spike, and that's a good thing imo.

TheOneMephisto · Jul 05, 2006, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Dark Genie

Well, even if they destroy your ghostly, they have to cap in less than 2 minutes. IWAY doesn't have much interrupt prevention. With the introduction of seeking arrows, you can pretty much interrupt a ghostly forever...

Killing you is fairly good interrupt prevention.

Lord Dark Genie · Jul 05, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

In a 3 way situation, it's slightly more complicated than just killing you. There's a 3rd team that doesn't want them to cap, and IWAY can't really kill 2 decent teams at once.

As long as 3-way map exist, victory is going to be decided by luck a lot more often than skill...

LoyalSoldier · Jul 06, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

(you're obviously IWAYers if you think OoA doesnt need a nerf)

Logical folly and a very poor debating tactic.

Extreme Days · Jul 06, 2006, 01:27 AM // 01:27

why not have soul barbs cancel itself when target foe is at 25% health? the spike is still there but its not what takes you out

LoyalSoldier · Jul 06, 2006, 07:20 PM // 19:20

The thing is I always though Soul Barbs was a little overkill because the hexes alone are very powerful. Because you can load someone up with so many hexes that they can only sit there.

There aren't very many skills that can mass remove hexes like conditions. They do exsist, but just aren't as readily avalible/useable.

cookiemonkie · Jul 07, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Extreme Days

why not have soul barbs cancel itself when target foe is at 25% health? the spike is still there but its not what takes you out

In that case why not just delay an energy burn by a split second so that it deals the finishing blow. Just doesn't work. Fact is RI or soul barbs needs to be reworked.

stueyman2099 · Jul 08, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

I personally think that OoA is overpowered in HA. In other places, it isn't that bad, just because enchantments aren't as required. However, HA depends on defending an NPC with stacks and stacks of enchantments. When you take into account this fact, OoA does appear to be overpowered, since you can easily strip all of those enchantments, allowing you to basically destroy the ghostly.

However, this may also be due to the nature of HA backlines. Since the best way to defend the ghostly is enchantments, people have gotten too use to the enchant protection of the ghostly. Since this was the best way for a long time, I doubt that anyone feels like trying to change it, since it is the best vs anything but OoA and because it's engrained into their heads. Therefore, when caught offguard by a skill like OoA, people are pretty screwed.

Good luck saving an immoble target from 4 warriors without using enchantments. It just doesn't work. The reason these enchants need to come into play is so the ghost even has a chance of not dieing.

TheOneMephisto · Jul 08, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by stueyman2099

Good luck saving an immoble target from 4 warriors without using enchantments. It just doesn't work. The reason these enchants need to come into play is so the ghost even has a chance of not dieing.

Of course, when your facing OoA IWAY that is exactly what you have to do. If you, say had 3 full healers, then they woudl have an easier time saving the ghostly against OoA IWAY than if you ahd the standard HA backline.

God Apprentice · Jul 09, 2006, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Our Dual Smite got owned by a Soul barb Spike last night lol

Its the first Ive encountered of it but it was extremely powerful

Other than that AoE could use a little adjustment

Servant of Kali · Jul 09, 2006, 09:48 AM // 09:48

As for touch rangers, i personally dont like the idea of rangers being vampires. However, i dont think they need nerf badly. Why? Well, i love touch rangers because they teach people to KITE. No more "look at me im invincible!" WMo's who think they can last 5 min vs someone, even tho they do -0 dmg all the time

And everyone else has to learn how to kite or die. So yea, in a way i like touches.

Thom Bangalter · Jul 09, 2006, 10:25 AM // 10:25

c'mon, convert hexes buff!

obvious candidates for adjustments:
AoE. SB/RI

Why nerf the ritualists? spirit spamming is all they got, really.

probably a buff to assassins, ritualists.

i don't know what they'd do to assassins, maybe change AOD back (please? Pretty please?)

I'd like to see HOH fixed so it's fun, instead of my grinding way to a wolf with oath shot.

maybe some sort of ranger buff? I'd like to see them buffed so they can hold their own a bit instead of being a niche roll (spirit spammer, thumper, or spiker. that's about it)

Touch rangers don't count, I have yet to see them be a problem, It's all been through hear say. I have yet to see one so overpowered it needs to be nerfed.