Curse

shardfenix · Jul 19, 2006, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by phasola

i can see the next chapter 3 skill :
Order of Iway [no attribute]
for 5 seconds, party member attacks cannot be evaded and they cant be blinded by foes
cost : 5 , recharge : 1

your source is wrong. It's actually worded like this:

For (3...5) years, your attacks reach foes 2 million aggro circles away, and whenever you hit with an attack, you kill (5...17) indian babies. When this enchantment ends, arenanet will nerf every build other than iway.

richirich · Jul 19, 2006, 12:39 PM // 12:39

i personally think some of the posts here are quite silly . 'just stay in wards' so that halfs the attacks from 4 warriors making theoretically the damage from 2 warriors which is still a lot. 'rush the ooa necro' by the time you push all 4 warriors back you will take heavy damage from the crits fleeing foes get and will probably take heavy losses gg.

dbgtboy · Jul 19, 2006, 01:03 PM // 13:03

From the posts ive read in this thread, it makes iway sound like an INVINCIBLE AND UNBEATABLE build, and who the hell are you kidding? I HAVE NEVER EVER seen an ooa nec who was able to CONSTANTLY keep ooa up for the ENTIRE game, I havent even seen one who could keep it up for just half the game. Best counter to iway --> dont suck, yes its that easy. I have seen a shitload of teams i have beaten not even bothering to kite into wards or just stood there and casted spells while i was bashing their asses with my axe and then call my team noobs when they got flawlessed. Oh, and hopeless said you were best trapper he had seen? you do know he said Authority was one of the best warriors he has seen also.

axe · Jul 19, 2006, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Why is it that IWAY players evolve their builds immediately after nerfs, updates, etc. But Cryway players dont do a thing to evolve their builds?

Factions introduced tons and tons of new skills, and 2 new classes, and you want to be able to run the same balanced build that you always have from day one and not be bothered to adapt to changes in the builds you face.

You should thank IWAY players for forcing you to become better. I get so angry reading all this because I am so new to HA and it makes me sad that some of the best players in the game are complaining about how they cant win every match anymore. Try playing in an unranked PUG and then you'll have something to cry about.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jul 19, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

If you have not seen an orders necro that can keep ooa up all or most of the game, your orders must SERIOUSLY suck. I used to run an ooa dual smite, we had no spirits, no ew, nothing, and the N/E ooa (WITH WARDS) could keep it up about 30-50% of the time easily, at more than double the energy cost. What does that tell you? Also yuna, if you are referring to beating them in halls last night, I believe they had a fighter henchy in place of their ritualist (if I'm wrong and they had a full 8 man team, just ignore this last sentence).

llsektorll · Jul 19, 2006, 02:28 PM // 14:28

OKAY so no one ran gansta iway like nintendo power bak in end of August of Last year with two monks and 6 W/R... but it has come a long way... whats next in iway mesmers??? probably not... cuz mesmers require some skill to play...

ok why does iway get more hate than dualsmite?....

1st almost all the top guilds run dual smite... no one can complain if the leet poeple run it right?....

2nd.... Don't EVEN TRY TO SAY IWAY REQUIRES SOME SKILL... the whole reason iway exists is cuz... A ranked B with a Bambi and B wanted to take revenge with his WOLF!!!... yes thats right IWAY IS FAME FARMING....

Now lets get down to the basics... why do you want to have alot of fame?.... for respect from your peers that you are a skilled player... now will poeple like Yunas Ele or Tifa Lockheart get respect from skilled players saying.... o high rank.... u guys must be good... well if they are total nubs and don't know that they are both notorious iwayers they will probably not respect him very much...

not only is the purpose of iway to fame farm but it is also built to kill die and go bak and kill some more... with little or no holding capabilities...

Dual Smite is also another fairly easy build to play... With a lot of pressure and alot of healing they are set to do their thing and own...

now there is still that other build that everyone hates .... spike...

ok spike groups are hated for a another reason.. not because they are noob... on the contrary.. spike is the hardest build to play require the most tactics and most coordination... but spike is hated because good spikes kill so fast that it pisses people off...

a build is a build.. iway has its purpose .... nothing will change about how most of the poeple feel about iway... so don't expect to for the hate to die....

Mental Leteci · Jul 19, 2006, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by axe

Factions introduced tons and tons of new skills

Double skills and Apostasy.

floplag · Jul 19, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

are there other builds/skills that are equally as whacked .. of course, but the issue here isnt that the skill is whacked, its that its overrunning things

anytime a build becomes so dominant that you just know the vast majority of teams are using it, theres a problem that needs to be addressed

i would say the ame thing about skills in other areas... Touch rangers in alliance battles.. waaaaaaay overused. EoE bomb in Fort Aspenwood, etc...

the issue here is balance.. and anytime a skill becomes as dominant as IWAY is... you can expect 2 things. people to complain about it, and sooner or later the nerf bat to show up

right or wrong, its just the way of things

Legendary Shiz · Jul 19, 2006, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by llsektorll

OKAY so no one ran gansta iway like nintendo power bak in end of August of Last year with two monks and 6 W/R... but it has come a long way... whats next in iway mesmers??? probably not... cuz mesmers require some skill to play...

ok why does iway get more hate than dualsmite?....

1st almost all the top guilds run dual smite... no one can complain if the leet poeple run it right?....

2nd.... Don't EVEN TRY TO SAY IWAY REQUIRES SOME SKILL... the whole reason iway exists is cuz... A ranked B with a Bambi and B wanted to take revenge with his WOLF!!!... yes thats right IWAY IS FAME FARMING....

Now lets get down to the basics... why do you want to have alot of fame?.... for respect from your peers that you are a skilled player... now will poeple like Yunas Ele or Tifa Lockheart get respect from skilled players saying.... o high rank.... u guys must be good... well if they are total nubs and don't know that they are both notorious iwayers they will probably not respect him very much...

not only is the purpose of iway to fame farm but it is also built to kill die and go bak and kill some more... with little or no holding capabilities...

Dual Smite is also another fairly easy build to play... With a lot of pressure and alot of healing they are set to do their thing and own...

now there is still that other build that everyone hates .... spike...

ok spike groups are hated for a another reason.. not because they are noob... on the contrary.. spike is the hardest build to play require the most tactics and most coordination... but spike is hated because good spikes kill so fast that it pisses people off...

a build is a build.. iway has its purpose .... nothing will change about how most of the poeple feel about iway... so don't expect to for the hate to die....

I would hardly say that spike is the hardest build to play. It takes some skill from your caller, but besides that it's nowhere near as difficult as you make it seem.

Also, IWAY doesn't take an insane amount of skill to run effectively, but it does take at least an ounce to be a GOOD IWAY team. Like the MATH guys. I think IWAY gets a bad rep because of the PUGs, less because of the guilds that can actually run it and hold halls with it.

dbgtboy · Jul 19, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

If you have not seen an orders necro that can keep ooa up all or most of the game, your orders must SERIOUSLY suck. I used to run an ooa dual smite, we had no spirits, no ew, nothing, and the N/E ooa (WITH WARDS) could keep it up about 30-50% of the time easily, at more than double the energy cost. What does that tell you?

ill tell you that keeping up ooa for 80% of the game with 3 monks backing your ass up is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier than keeping up ooa while keeping your team's ass up on 1 profession

Yunas Ele · Jul 19, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

Mr. Yunas follows this sentence with 9 paragraphs and a post script.

I could of written much more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

Correct, no iway has held more than 4 times i believe. However, for a build with no skill and almost no healing capabilities, 4 wins is too much. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you got lucky fighting 1v1 those 4 times, or you eoe bombed everything.

I've actually done 8 consec but whatever. 4 Minutes is enough time for a team to cap, and then give us the ability to re-cap. Only 1 of these matches was 1v1. And the matches that we did hold, we basically chained interupts and bodyblocked, just like any other build would of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

I think you missed the part of Wild Blow where it says "This attack cannot be blocked or evaded."

Only 1 IWAY warrior has wildblow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

NR is the least of our worries when all our enchantments got WTFpwnt by pvp axes and wands.

Then thats one of many things you're doing wrong vs IWAY. If you think NR isn't hurting you then your an idiot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

no other elite can be compared to another elite and suck 600 times as much. (thats an actual statistic so dont say i made it up)

Not gonna argue with that. Dark Apostasy does suck balls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

I have played in hopeless's team once, 4 wins in a row. I thought for 7 people who have iwayed 9 ranks of fame, they knew what they were doing, but...
Hopeless made me play trapper, which I have never done before for any build. After the run he said i was one of the best trappers he'd ever seen. Now, Me, who has never trapped before EVER, being better than people who've done it for 4000+fame...that says something about how much iway players are challenged (not the retarted kind of challenged.) Just that comment alone made me think less of iway.

I don't believe that for a second. Hopeless saying something positive about a player is like Dark Apostasy not sucking. Also see dgtboy's post. And when hopeless does say something positive it usually doesn't mean much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

there is 1 rit weapon that avoids attacks, and 1 that makes people blind. Total of 4 skills unaffected by OoA. Thanks for clearing that up.

Better than nothing. Besides, I think you have missed the other paragraph about kiting, wards+aegis+gaurdian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

who the hell is formosa? You must have a different pi, or the old one, or a fake. Not all of pi are sore losers...just me and adrin.

Well after we beat you guys in halls (MATH team) you guys were *****ing and whining beyond belief. Then after the match someone name Formosa PMs me apologizing for your team's rudeness. Now he might of been from the other team, I didn't bother to ask, but the other team wasn't trash talking, so I naturally assumed it was your team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

I didn't know 0% is half to iwayers. Maybe that's why you say you win half the time. Please point oit the...points we made that were BS, and please yuna, point out the points we are right about.

You didn't even bother responding to some points in my post so I guess that means you agree with them too, hmm? Very well, soon I will go through all those posts and agree/disagree with every single point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cedric

IWAY... More like IGAY

Yea I said it.

Yes they deserve to die, and I hope they burn in hell.

That's all I really have to say.

And I thought shard and messner were crying, but this is just crying at its finest. Cry more IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alazare

@ Yunas

So to defeat IWAY, you must kite through wards, have aegis up and guardian on each player. Well, what if a ward or aegis get interrupted? You know, monks cant run and kite all the time, because unlike warriors, monks need to stand in place to use their skills.

Today IWAY is defining the look of balanced teams because every team who wants to go past UW has to have an ele with wards, has to have aegis and lots of cover enchantments. And you try to prot under NR. Also, the warrior has to not only kill iways spirits which are quite far and has to overextend but also do some damage to the actual players.

look, you play IWAY, but you simply can't defend it. It IS overpowered.

You don't need gaurdian on every player. Theres only 4 warriors after all and last time I checked 4 warriors can't attack 8 targets. Wards a 1 second cast. Don't cast it while a warriors on you. Kite him out a bit and then cast. If ward gets interupted its because your warder sucks. Ya monks need to stand still to cast but they stand in wards while doing that and then kite while not. Not a difficult concept, IMO.

Umm, why would I have to prot under NR. NR has to be frontline. I can understand EW complains cuz that can be wayyyy back and still do the job but NR has to be in range to reach all the monks. If you can't interupt a frontline spirit or kill it then your team sucks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

Also, im in bwtween hall runs, and i was wondering.

If all you spike/balance players keep downing iway and say its not a real build or whatever, why, oh why, do you always let it win. The past 10 times ive been in halls with my team, iway, and 2 choking gassers, the choking gas teams ALWAYS lets iway cap.

If you hate iway so much, dont let them win. gg.

Most people would rather let IWAY win then some trash talking cry babies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by llsektorll

2nd.... Don't EVEN TRY TO SAY IWAY REQUIRES SOME SKILL...

Don't even try to say **** about a build you've never played. Please come play in a decent IWAY and say this again. Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by llsektorll

Now lets get down to the basics... why do you want to have alot of fame?.... for respect from your peers that you are a skilled player... now will poeple like Yunas Ele or Tifa Lockheart get respect from skilled players saying.... o high rank.... u guys must be good... well if they are total nubs and don't know that they are both notorious iwayers they will probably not respect him very much...

I don't IWAY for respect. Thats probably the most retarded thing thats been written this topic. Also FYI, at least half todays r9+ balance are old IWAYers who changed their name + guild. You people put all the hate on IWAYers like me and tifa, but at least we're not going into your balance pugs and screwing things up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by llsektorll

ok spike groups are hated for a another reason.. not because they are noob... on the contrary.. spike is the hardest build to play require the most tactics and most coordination... but spike is hated because good spikes kill so fast that it pisses people off...

Spiking is the most basic concept in the game. I don't know who your trying to kid here. The caller is the only skilled role in a spike. I'd link you to my topic about this but it got deleted because whining cry babies like Pi and most likely yourself couldn't handle the truth that spike is easier to play then IWAY so they whined and flamed till it got deleted.

dbgtboy · Jul 19, 2006, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yunas Ele

Spiking is the most basic concept in the game. I don't know who your trying to kid here. The caller is the only skilled role in a spike. I'd link you to my topic about this but it got deleted because whining cry babies like Pi and most likely yourself couldn't handle the truth that spike is easier to play then IWAY so they whined and flamed till it got deleted.

Just like to ask a question here to shardfenix, I would like to know why a bloodspike team with players who have never bloodspiked before but had a good caller were able to hold halls for 4 games on the first run and 9 games on the second run (dont say they held vs noobs because i know one of the matches was vs iA guild group), and why are the best iway teams the only ones able to consistently win every map and hold halls every day and not some random iway? I know you are going to want to post something entirely irrelevant and stupid to this question because you aren't going to be able to come up with an answer without contradiciting yourself.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jul 19, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Once you cap with bloodspike it is so RIDICULOUSLY easy to hold that you truely need to uninstall if you can't. I am not at all surprised that MATH was able to hold with bloodspike. Also, you've pointed out one match vs iA, what about the other matches?

llsektorll · Jul 19, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

I would hardly say that spike is the hardest build to play. It takes some skill from your caller, but besides that it's nowhere near as difficult as you make it seem.

Also, IWAY doesn't take an insane amount of skill to run effectively, but it does take at least an ounce to be a GOOD IWAY team. Like the MATH guys. I think IWAY gets a bad rep because of the PUGs, less because of the guilds that can actually run it and hold halls with it.

try coordinating spikes ... not an easy task... infusers now adays getting better spikes just harder and harder to play... from the 3 spike in my opinion is the hardest to run...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yunas Ele

Spiking is the most basic concept in the game. I don't know who your trying to kid here. The caller is the only skilled role in a spike. I'd link you to my topic about this but it got deleted because whining cry babies like Pi and most likely yourself couldn't handle the truth that spike is easier to play then IWAY so they whined and flamed till it got deleted.

ur joking right.... iway IS THE EASIEST BUILD TO RUN... why else do pugs run iway all day and night... EURO runs iway when america is asleep goddamn i've even seen Jap run IWAY...

WHO ARE U TRYING TO KId... dude wake up and smell the crap u are spitting out...

iway has been alive this long because there has to be a build for noobs to run...

go find a pug r3 iway and put them against a pug r3 spike who wins?? u damn right its gona b the iway... its just a easier build to run.. and thats exactly why it has the hate... also because ANET is nearing 11months in its overdue nerf......

dbgtboy · Jul 19, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Once you cap with bloodspike it is so RIDICULOUSLY easy to hold that you truely need to uninstall if you can't. I am not at all surprised that MATH was able to hold with bloodspike. Also, you've pointed out one match vs iA, what about the other matches?

which is exactly the point of this thread, spiking builds are the easiest to play, they have so much defense in them they can withstand 2 teams attacking at once.

Quote:

Originally Posted by llsektorll

ur joking right.... iway IS THE EASIEST BUILD TO RUN... why else do pugs run iway all day and night... EURO runs iway when america is asleep goddamn i've even seen Jap run IWAY...

WHO ARE U TRYING TO KId... dude wake up and smell the crap u are spitting out...

iway has been alive this long because there has to be a build for noobs to run...

go find a pug r3 iway and put them against a pug r3 spike who wins?? u damn right its gona b the iway... its just a easier build to run.. and thats exactly why it has the hate... also because ANET is nearing 11months in its overdue nerf......

Okay let me put this easily, iway is a heavy pressure build, you understand so far? alright, if your monks suck piss you are going to get rolled from all the pressure, that has nothing to do with the spikers sucking, im sure a r3+ spike can get farther that a r3+ iway if the monks dont suck ass. Monks sucking ass and making the team lose has nothing to do with the skill of the spikers.

The Real Roy Keane · Jul 19, 2006, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by llsektorll

OKAY so no one ran gansta iway like nintendo power bak in end of August of Last year with two monks and 6 W/R... but it has come a long way... whats next in iway mesmers??? probably not... cuz mesmers require some skill to play...

I used to make the idiot assumption that 'stupid' players used Warriors, while 'intelligent' players opted for Mesmers. I was wrong, it's just as hard to play a Warrior effectively as it is any other class, Mesmers included.

Ecomancer · Jul 19, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

I can tell you why. No one is complaingin about Dual Smite,Tripple Smite,Necro Spike (after the nerf),etc. builds, why? Cause IWAY is the only build which can totally pwn you and still have their 2 main characters on the other side of the map. All other builds have to actually be NEAR you to do anything (except spirit spammers) and IWAY necros can just sit back and cast OoA or OoP for the whole map. What's up with this? In scarred earth you get that if IWAY is 2nd team you have to fight they just put necros at the doors (trapped of course) and warriors rush in. They get 2 orders up before you even get to them. Yes,I am whining about IWAY if someone didn't notice. I'm just waiting for all these pro IWAY-ers to come here and tell me I'm wrong,go ahead.

Its the age old complaint, if you can't counter it, its too overpowered and needs to be nerfed. There are many things that are effective counters to IWAY but as usual players instead of learning these counters decide its time to nerf IWAY again. For starters, a foes ward and a melee works wonders in any build and especially against iway as you can kite and evade attacks. Other things such as bonds and enchantments such as aegis are also effective. If there is a natures renewal up that causes problems, quite simply get out of its range.

Guild Wars isn't a stationary game, its quite dynamic and to be able to control the battlefield by constantly moving is always benefecial. For example, the other day in Burial Mounds, we faced a hex degen team with 2 migraine mesmers and FOC necros, they had no warriors and their main source of damage was from the hexes. We were unable to score any kills nor were they, except for the fact that they had our monks migrained most of the times. The hexes were causing us problems as we were confined in a small area near the priests so we decided to move far out, though they killed the priest, they had to either stay there or come for us, we patiently awaited them and sure enough they moved out in the open which allowed us to score a few kills and eventually take the win.

Likewise, if you can constantly keep moving against any build, be it IWAY, Ranger Spike, Blood Spike, anything for that matter and control the battlefield, more often than not, you will gain the upper hand. Its all about tactics although unlike GVG most players in HA seem to thing tactics really doesn't matter. Mostly, its the IWAY button bashers and Ranger Spikers that tend to overlook tactics, however having said that, balanced build players are no less guilty, they need to learn play better by learning from matches and mistakes and utilise the map to the fullest potential. Best defense against any build is first and foremost superior tactics then the build itself and eventually player skill.

There are numerous counters for IWAY builds, do complain about it, but also take the time to learn what the counters and how to deal with builds such as IWAY.

Mental Leteci · Jul 19, 2006, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecomancer

For starters, a foes ward and a melee works wonders in any build and especially against iway as you can kite and evade attacks. Other things such as bonds and enchantments such as aegis are also effective. If there is a natures renewal up that causes problems, quite simply get out of its range.

Oh God,I didn't even read the rest of your post after this. Have you been away for a while?

Yunas Ele · Jul 19, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by llsektorll

ur joking right.... iway IS THE EASIEST BUILD TO RUN... why else do pugs run iway all day and night... EURO runs iway when america is asleep goddamn i've even seen Jap run IWAY...

WHO ARE U TRYING TO KId... dude wake up and smell the crap u are spitting out...

iway has been alive this long because there has to be a build for noobs to run...

go find a pug r3 iway and put them against a pug r3 spike who wins?? u damn right its gona b the iway... its just a easier build to run.. and thats exactly why it has the hate... also because ANET is nearing 11months in its overdue nerf......

If the r3 group had an exped caller they would DOMINATE the iway team. MATH are unranked when it comes to spike (like no exp with it) but when they had a good caller, they kicked ass and took names. What does that tell you? People with no spiking experience get a good caller and they own.

IWAY is not an easier build to run. Lets compare them.

Offensive: With spike its just my target spike in 3 2 1. Then you hit your spike skill. Difficult stuff. IWAY actually has to swap targets, attack overextenders blah blah. Sure, its a lot of pressure so theirs room for a few mistakes but the offensive is still much more difficult to play than that off 3 2 1.

Defense: IWAY has little to no defense. 2 Soul reaping necros and sometimes a rit prot. Spike has like 6+ characters each with 6+ skills in their bar dedicated to defense. You can make so many mistakes defense-wise with spike and still win because you've got so much of it. IWAYs defense is so limited that any mistakes there and you can lose.

P.S - Spikes been around longer than IWAY.

Ecomancer · Jul 19, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yunas Ele

I don't IWAY for respect. Thats probably the most retarded thing thats been written this topic. Also FYI, at least half todays r9+ balance are old IWAYers who changed their name + guild.

Thats very interesting, you don't IWAY fro respect, then what do you IWAY for? Let me guess, for the superficial satisfaction in getting rank 9 or rank 12 with the least amount of skill and most amount of button bashing possible. Also FYI atleast half the statistics posted on forums such as this are entirely made up by the poster..

Quote:

Spiking is the most basic concept in the game. I don't know who your trying to kid here. The caller is the only skilled role in a spike. I'd link you to my topic about this but it got deleted because whining cry babies like Pi and most likely yourself couldn't handle the truth that spike is easier to play then IWAY so they whined and flamed till it got deleted.

Actually, spiking is not the most basic concept of the game, its onep of the many concepts of the game, as in, not all builds and kills are spike reliant. I suppose you haven't come across them as yet for you are confined to your IWAY build.

Also, its not only the caller that has to be skilled. Everyone has to show skill otherwise collectively the team will go nowhere. Even so, sometimes the caller overlooks something which the team will draw attention to, so to say that the caller has to be the only skilled player is not true.

Quote:

spike is easier to play then IWAY

Please do inform us when you were successful playing the easier builds, I think you have tried the button bashing one long enough. Problem is, as far as I am aware, most IWAYers don't know how to play other roles and builds because they have been accustomed to IWAYfor so long. Its sad really, but I guess you can't blame them either, if they like the pickup-and-play with some button bashing type of game, then thats their choice isn't it.