Curse

Legendary Shiz · Jul 18, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Almighty

how can you stay up to put pressure if ooa strips every single enchantment that helps vs. war? guardian= crap, sod = crap, bonds= crap, aegis = crap, and then you will say ward, you can interupt the ward is you didnt know and its a whole lot easier to interupt without any enchantments.

That's why you put them up BEFORE you get hit by the war with OoA on him. If you have wards and aegis up, it makes it much harder for him to hit you. Add in the fact that if you have an ounce of kiteing ability, it should be pretty difficult to avoid the OoA.

Alazare · Jul 18, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

What the hell are u all talking about?! Dont defend IWAY because it doesent deserve to be defended. It sooo overpowered. It does not need skill to be played, it owns noob teams that try to do and learn something new, it limits the creativity of players when making new buils because every balanced build MUST have wards, MUST have aegis and so on. OMG i do not understand why defend it?! Anet simply has to nerf it, but they do not want to. IWAY is a desiase, it forces new players to play it because with a balanced build they cannot get passed UW. It made ranks useless because many people have a higher rank than players with better skills. IWAY is overpowered, it deserves to be nerfed and anyone who defends it either plays it or is a noob in HA and does not know what he is talking about and doesent belong in this discussion.

tomcruisejr · Jul 18, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alazare

Dont defend IWAY because it doesent deserve to be defended.

i stopped reading the rest of your post when i read this. its like you put the final dot to all of the iway discussions that may arise and there's nothing we can do to remove that dot.

Random Nonsense · Jul 19, 2006, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

I can tell you why. No one is complaingin about Dual Smite,Tripple Smite,Necro Spike (after the nerf),etc. builds, why? Cause IWAY is the only build which can totally pwn you and still have their 2 main characters on the other side of the map. All other builds have to actually be NEAR you to do anything (except spirit spammers) and IWAY necros can just sit back and cast OoA or OoP for the whole map. What's up with this? In scarred earth you get that if IWAY is 2nd team you have to fight they just put necros at the doors (trapped of course) and warriors rush in. They get 2 orders up before you even get to them. Yes,I am whining about IWAY if someone didn't notice. I'm just waiting for all these pro IWAY-ers to come here and tell me I'm wrong,go ahead.

LoL. I just love your post.

OoA was untouched during the skill balance update, wtf? I complain about dual smite, tripple smite all the time hehe. <3

Messner · Jul 19, 2006, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Let's look closely at the recent changes to the game with respect to both skills and PvP setups and allow me to explain why IWAY is still so common:
OoV nerf because Rangerspike and IWAY were able to do too much damage with this skill stacking with OoP.

Tiger's Fury and IWAY no longer stacked attacking speeds.

So it seemed, the end of IWAY everywhere was upon us and we watched IWAY formation dwindle. The coupling of those two updates turned IWAY into a build on its way out because it lost its power of pressure.

A few months later...

Factions Release and the introduction of OoA to IWAY henceforth nullifying any and all enchantments with the coupling of Energizing Winds and its obscene range.

Enchantments make up an immense part of this game, scroll down the list of Monk skills and count the number of enchantments, oh wait, don't bother, they don't matter anymore anyways.

Now that IWAY is able to counter the majority of warrior hate solutions on the defensive side let's look at how OoA makes curses equally as ineffective as enchantments!!

What's a great way to counter IWAY? Some of you say Shadow of Fear + Spiteful = GG. Let's actually think about this for let's say 1 second, okay?

With NR up, Spiteful and Shadow each take 4 seconds to cast, how do you avoid an interrupt from a melee based character you say? An enchantment perhaps, Aegis, maybe a Guardian, so you're in the clear until oh, wait, wtf happened to the Guardian and the Aegis???!?? Ohh that necro who is so far away you can't even target him on the enemy team, he's standing in EW spamming OoA non stop, that warrior must have done the unthinkable and hit you twice to remove your defense against melee based interrupts and continued warrior damage output. What do ya know you still have 2.5 seconds left on your cast of Spiteful and oh noes, he used DBlow, gg try again in 15 seconds when your Spiteful and his DBlow are recharged again, oh and this time, don't even bother asking for the Guardian you're just overworking the OoP necro's heal other key so his OoA doesn't die, I mean, they have unlimited energy from SR and they only have to spend 10 energy instead of 15 for HParties.

So let's look at the halls timer update from 10 minute battles to 4 and the potential 5 way honed down to 3 way. What has this done from a tactical standpoint?

It has forced teams to hold the altar, there is no real option of "Giving up and ganking it later" anymore because there's not enough time for most teams to wear out your holding capabilities and then drop your ghost before 2 minutes. How does this relate to IWAY you might ask? IWAY is a pressure build, I'm sure if looked at statistically, fights lasting longer than 4 minutes 95% of the time, IWAY loses and for fights under 4 minutes I'd be willing to bet that 95% of the time IWAY rolls right through the team. One of the worst things that you can give an IWAY team is its morale boost, turning 8 res sigs into 16 is practically suicide. The way halls is setup now, IWAY teams can pressure for the full 4 minutes and use next to nothing by way of res sigs, they don't have to touch a sig until below the 2 minute mark which gives them effectively 16 "lives" anyways.

The way halls used to be setup was flawed in that there could be a 1v1 fight even though four teams loaded. In the old halls setup (10min/5way) the holding team had to defend their altar and they had 10 minutes with which to do so. Everyone knows it's incredibly difficult to take a team off of an altar 1v1 when every 2 minutes they get all of their skills and res sigs back so the move to 3 man HoH setups was completely appropriate. With the reduced timer however, halls has turned into a 16 v 8 gank with nearly eminent defeat for most holding teams and removed the strategy aspect to halls nearly altogether, it's simply become a slash and bash interrupt fest. So as for why the answer to "What wins in halls and why?", I must say IWAY simply because it follows the requirement for winning a fight most often in 4 minutes, high pressure and heavy body count for bodyblocking.

In any game I've ever played, there has been a sort of accountability on behalf of the game engineers and designers to keep it balanced and fair, though in the 5 or 6 months I've been PvPing all I've seen is build exploits and untimely corrections. I often wonder, are we playing an abandoned game still in beta or did we really pay for this? I'm still sticking to my claim that ArenaNet was high when they created OoA after making its Assassin counterpart Dark Apostasy so pathetic it's practically useless and then giving it the radius of affect that heal party shares... Hey ArenaNet, you forgot to give Dark Fury the area of effect of HParty too, you guys could be getting adrenaline twice as fast as before it'd be your solution to Soothing!

All I'm saying is IWAY is overpowered because of 1 skill and that's OoA, anyone who says or thinks otherwise is simply misinformed or just plain stupid and that my friends is why IWAY is "dominating HA"

Random Nonsense · Jul 19, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messner

Let's look closely at the recent changes to the game with respect to both skills and PvP setups and allow me to explain why IWAY is still so common:
OoV nerf because Rangerspike and IWAY were able to do too much damage with this skill stacking with OoP.

Tiger's Fury and IWAY no longer stacked attacking speeds.

So it seemed, the end of IWAY everywhere was upon us and we watched IWAY formation dwindle. The coupling of those two updates turned IWAY into a build on its way out because it lost its power of pressure.

A few months later...

Factions Release and the introduction of OoA to IWAY henceforth nullifying any and all enchantments with the coupling of Energizing Winds and its obscene range.

Enchantments make up an immense part of this game, scroll down the list of Monk skills and count the number of enchantments, oh wait, don't bother, they don't matter anymore anyways.

Now that IWAY is able to counter the majority of warrior hate solutions on the defensive side let's look at how OoA makes curses equally as ineffective as enchantments!!

What's a great way to counter IWAY? Some of you say Shadow of Fear + Spiteful = GG. Let's actually think about this for let's say 1 second, okay?

With NR up, Spiteful and Shadow each take 4 seconds to cast, how do you avoid an interrupt from a melee based character you say? An enchantment perhaps, Aegis, maybe a Guardian, so you're in the clear until oh, wait, wtf happened to the Guardian and the Aegis???!?? Ohh that necro who is so far away you can't even target him on the enemy team, he's standing in EW spamming OoA non stop, that warrior must have done the unthinkable and hit you twice to remove your defense against melee based interrupts and continued warrior damage output. What do ya know you still have 2.5 seconds left on your cast of Spiteful and oh noes, he used DBlow, gg try again in 15 seconds when your Spiteful and his DBlow are recharged again, oh and this time, don't even bother asking for the Guardian you're just overworking the OoP necro's heal other key so his OoA doesn't die, I mean, they have unlimited energy from SR and they only have to spend 10 energy instead of 15 for HParties.

So let's look at the halls timer update from 10 minute battles to 4 and the potential 5 way honed down to 3 way. What has this done from a tactical standpoint?

It has forced teams to hold the altar, there is no real option of "Giving up and ganking it later" anymore because there's not enough time for most teams to wear out your holding capabilities and then drop your ghost before 2 minutes. How does this relate to IWAY you might ask? IWAY is a pressure build, I'm sure if looked at statistically, fights lasting longer than 4 minutes 95% of the time, IWAY loses and for fights under 4 minutes I'd be willing to bet that 95% of the time IWAY rolls right through the team. One of the worst things that you can give an IWAY team is its morale boost, turning 8 res sigs into 16 is practically suicide. The way halls is setup now, IWAY teams can pressure for the full 4 minutes and use next to nothing by way of res sigs, they don't have to touch a sig until below the 2 minute mark which gives them effectively 16 "lives" anyways.

The way halls used to be setup was flawed in that there could be a 1v1 fight even though four teams loaded. In the old halls setup (10min/5way) the holding team had to defend their altar and they had 10 minutes with which to do so. Everyone knows it's incredibly difficult to take a team off of an altar 1v1 when every 2 minutes they get all of their skills and res sigs back so the move to 3 man HoH setups was completely appropriate. With the reduced timer however, halls has turned into a 16 v 8 gank with nearly eminent defeat for most holding teams and removed the strategy aspect to halls nearly altogether, it's simply become a slash and bash interrupt fest. So as for why the answer to "What wins in halls and why?", I must say IWAY simply because it follows the requirement for winning a fight most often in 4 minutes, high pressure and heavy body count for bodyblocking.

In any game I've ever played, there has been a sort of accountability on behalf of the game engineers and designers to keep it balanced and fair, though in the 5 or 6 months I've been PvPing all I've seen is build exploits and untimely corrections. I often wonder, are we playing an abandoned game still in beta or did we really pay for this? I'm still sticking to my claim that ArenaNet was high when they created OoA after making its Assassin counterpart Dark Apostasy so pathetic it's practically useless and then giving it the radius of affect that heal party shares... Hey ArenaNet, you forgot to give Dark Fury the area of effect of HParty too, you guys could be getting adrenaline twice as fast as before it'd be your solution to Soothing!

All I'm saying is IWAY is overpowered because of 1 skill and that's OoA, anyone who says or thinks otherwise is simply misinformed or just plain stupid and that my friends is why IWAY is "dominating HA"

I <3 you. Nobody can say that shit better!

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jul 19, 2006, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quoted for truth even though I'm too lazy to press the quote button... IWAY is certainly more suited to winning halls now thanks to the reasons just listed, however; I think that their help in ganking is actually something that can quite easily be taken advantage of, simply let them help you kill the other teams ghostly and you barely have to do any work. In my experience, this often results in not the iway, not the good holding team, but a third team, one that probably could not have taken down blue's ghost, winning, because they let the iway take down blue's ghost while just sticking to the iway ghost and/or blue's interrupts, and cap, gg. Also, thankfully, the average iway player seems to be too stupid to realize that their ghostly needs to be ON THE ALTAR to cap. I have seen iway sitting there with their ghost ridiculously far back or body blocked (where the body blocker is easily killable or can be worked around) countless times. Simple point of this post: in my experience, the average iway is too stupid to manage to take halls themselves, and in the end just help the third team win.

shardfenix · Jul 19, 2006, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Lets get all this confusion and flaming straight.

Iway is a real build. Just as much as touch rangers, spirit spamming, VIM, eoe bomb, and henchway are real builds.
it takes skill to play iway. You'd be surprised how many people haven't learned or don't know how to point and click on a random enemy. C + Spacebar is hard to muster, even for the best players.
IWAY players have proven themselves to be exceptionally good at EVERY other build, whether it be spike, balance, smite, whatever. Iway players can not only play iway, but they can play other builds equally, if not better.
Order of Pain and Order of apostasy are easily counterable if you have a ranger equipped with a MegaLongbow, and your warriors can easily run through tanks, pets, and trap bombs and kill an order necro in seconds.
Order of Apostasy is not broken. Just because it obliterates every defensive spell in the game other than ward foes and ward melee does NOT make it overpowered. Neither does the 500' range.
Iway is not ruining the fame system, nor is it ruining favor. Iway has an equal chance of...*chuckles* winning *bursts out laughing* as every other build.
I hate when mods take out the funniest line in my posts.
It is common knowledge that shard likes using sarcasm to prove his points.

Byron · Jul 19, 2006, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

Iway is a real build.

Very true, and not the sarcasm (this time).

Quote:

it takes skill to play iway. You'd be surprised how many people haven't learned or don't know how to point and click on a random enemy. C + Spacebar is hard to muster, even for the best players.

I think it takes a measure of patience to play one build until it is utterly and flawlessly mastered beyond any hint of inefficiency, tbh.

Quote:

Order of Apostasy is not broken. Just because it obliterates every defensive spell in the game other than ward foes and ward melee does NOT make it overpowered. Neither does the 500' range.

The sarcasm here is what's QFT. Bring wild blow (and they do), gg all classes.

Messner · Jul 19, 2006, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

[*]I hate when mods take out the funniest line in my posts.

All MATH players have large instances of male genetalia.

Random Nonsense · Jul 19, 2006, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

Lets get all this confusion and flaming straight.

Iway is a real build. Just as much as touch rangers, spirit spamming, VIM, eoe bomb, and henchway are real builds.
it takes skill to play iway. You'd be surprised how many people haven't learned or don't know how to point and click on a random enemy. C + Spacebar is hard to muster, even for the best players.
IWAY players have proven themselves to be exceptionally good at EVERY other build, whether it be spike, balance, smite, whatever. Iway players can not only play iway, but they can play other builds equally, if not better.
Order of Pain and Order of apostasy are easily counterable if you have a ranger equipped with a MegaLongbow, and your warriors can easily run through tanks, pets, and trap bombs and kill an order necro in seconds.
Order of Apostasy is not broken. Just because it obliterates every defensive spell in the game other than ward foes and ward melee does NOT make it overpowered. Neither does the 500' range.
Iway is not ruining the fame system, nor is it ruining favor. Iway has an equal chance of...*chuckles* winning *bursts out laughing* as every other build.
I hate when mods take out the funniest line in my posts.
It is common knowledge that shard likes using sarcasm to prove his points.

I think I just laughed myself to death.

<3 gg

Yunas Ele · Jul 19, 2006, 07:24 AM // 07:24

I'll write a nice long response to this later, I'm just about to go to sleep very tired so I'll just right a quick response.

I don't who you guys are trying to kid when you say IWAY is a good holding build now. IWAYs HoH power is capping, but holding? LOL. If you can't kick an IWAY out of halls, its probably your own lack of skill. Sure, IWAY can hold off 4 minutes 1v1, but guess what? When your holding in HoH you get ganked by not 1, but 2 whole teams. And it hurts. IWAY Necros can't heal very well in HoH. They are good healers in 1v1 matches thanks to IWAY's fast killing speed so lots of soul reaping, but in HoH the only things that are gonna be dying is your team and spirits. With 9 soul reaping, thats not gonna go far in keeping the team up. Too many res sigs? I'd like to introduce you to frozen soil.

Even after this update, I dont think any IWAY team has held more than 10 consec. Yet balance and spike teams have done more than double that with ease.

Now, let me tell you, enchants still work vs IWAY. I think you missed the part where in OoA's skill description were it says you have to hit to remove the enchantment. With wards + aegis + gaurdian, the chances of the war landing a hit are next to none. Combine that with good kiting and you're good to go.

I don't know why you count NR into the equation. Unlike EW it has to be frontline so theres no excuse not to kill it. Oath shot got nerfed so its harder to keep it up and even then you can shut down oath with skills like Signet of Humility.

Dark Apostasy is ridiculously underpowered so I don't even know why people mention it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

[*]it takes skill to play iway. You'd be surprised how many people haven't learned or don't know how to point and click on a random enemy. C + Spacebar is hard to muster, even for the best players.

Please play in a good IWAY team before pulling this crap out of your ass. Btw, I don't think 3 2 1 is too hard to play either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

[*]Order of Apostasy is not broken. Just because it obliterates every defensive spell in the game other than ward foes and ward melee does NOT make it overpowered.

Forgot about rit weapons? It doesn't obliterate every defense spell, read a paragraph earlier in this post for more details.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messner

All MATH players have large instances of male genetalia.

And all Pi players are sore losers, except formosa. He seemed nice, as he sent me a PM after we beat u guys in halls apologizing for your team's rudeness. OMG, he was nice to an IWAYer, you guys gonna kick him from the guild now or something?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying OoA couldn't use a small nerf but half the points you guys made a pure BS. I will finish this post once I get some sleep.
P.S. - being complete assholes in game isn't going to suddenly get OoA nerfed.

Alleji · Jul 19, 2006, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Pfft, I declare IWAY obsolete as of tonight.

shardfenix · Jul 19, 2006, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote: