Curse

DieInBasra · Jul 20, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

http://gwshack.us/59096

There's the build.

Basicly, the smiter smites off the axe, and watchs both the axe and the hammer for blind and cripple. The necro tries to spread disease and throws up oop once and a while, and stays out of the fight for the most part, actually. The ranger spreads poison, but can split off and harass enemy flag-runners, can run the flag himself, or can sit on someone who needs intterupting in their midlines.

The axe and the hammer can pull of an adren spike together, haven't pulled numbers together yet, but I know the full hammer combo can kill a person more often then not by itself. The hammer DW comes late in the spike, which is lame, but Forceful is good stuff. I guess it comes down to, do I think more damage at the begining of the spike, or another deepwound near the begining of the spike is better, if I were comparing it to a Dev hammer chain.

Flag runner is a hybrid. I'm wondering if windborn would be better one him. As you can see, we have rotting with no tainted, so the dual extinguish is nessisary.

Is my blessed useless? I know dwayna's and gift don't have synergy in the least, but it's a really powerful heal in most situations.

As for split, it's Hammer and Ranger(2/6), Axe, Ranger and smiter (3/5), or Axe, ranger, blessed, smiter(4/4), that pull back to base vs another split, depending on how many they sent back.

As of now, this build is just theory craft, as I haven't gotten to testing it and my guild does more spike(when the ladder's open), then anything esle, so comments and critques would be appreciated.

Souless · Jul 20, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

On the Hammer, I think a Devestating Chain, or a Backbreaker chain would benefit you a whole lot more than forceful..Also you didn't put in anything to tactics to fuel your Heal Sig.

Idk about the necro, it just seems like a wasted slot since you already have smite damage, I think you'd benefit more from a mid-line E/Mo or maybe even an Illusion Mes for degen.

On the flag runner I'd take away a bit from water and put more into air for windborne, but that's just me.

Also on the Blessed I don't think Dwaynas was the best choice seeing as you should be using GoH a lot, I just don't see a good use for it. I'd add in a Guardian personally. You also might get some mileage out of Hex Breaker.

JR · Jul 21, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00

For a start; Rush on both Warriors seems a little strange, any particular reason for having it on the Axe? I do like the hammer spike though, lots of damage there.

For the sake of 5hp you can bump wilderness up a point on the Cripshot. It's not that important considering you hit the breakpoint in Troll anyway, but may be worth considering for the extra second Poison duration.

Expertise: 15 (11+4)
Wilderness Survival: 9 (8+1)
Marksmanship: 10 (9+1)
Illusion Magic: 8

I see how the dual Extinguish could make the lack of Tainted more viable, but I honestly think in the long run that is more hassle than it's worth. Any team you face with more condition removal than you will actually have an advantage. And to be honest that guy doesn't do much more than throw out disease, is it really worth the character slot?

The Water Ele needs some modification I think, at the moment it seems very light on actual snares. A decent running character, but not much else. I honestly think a lot of their durability comes from their ability to snare and well... run the hell away.

As for Armor of Mist vs Windborne, I think given attribute spread it is just better to stick to Mist.

I have recently been converted to running Hybrid types with Blinding Flash, so I like what you have done there. I don't think Healing Breeze is really neccasary, and could better be replaced with another snare such as Ice Prison. This way when confronted by a Crip-Shot or Assassin it is very simple; blind, snare, run. Also the attributes seem a little strange on yours.

I usually go with something like this:

Hydro
Elementalist/Monk

Energy Storage: 9 (8+1)
Water Magic: 14 (12+2)
Air Magic: 6 (5+1)
Healing Prayers: 9

- Blinding Flash (Air Magic)
- Deep Freeze (Water Magic)
- Ice Prison (Water Magic)
- Ice Spikes (Water Magic)
- Armor of Mist (Water Magic)
- Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
- Extinguish (Protection Prayers)
- Ether Prodigy [Elite] (Energy Storage)

As for the Dwayna's on the Blessed Light Monk, I wouldn't bother. The bad synergy between that and Gift really don't make it worthwhile, when Gift is a strong bulk heal already. That slot could be better utilized with something like Hex Breaker or Channeling (if you have a Monk that can use it effectively).

TheOneMephisto · Jul 21, 2006, 12:01 AM // 00:01

I think that the hammer should be fine as long as they're spiking together. When they're spiking together, he can forceful with shock, then crushing off of the shock KD, then heavy for another KD, then protector's, a nice synergy. However, his spike will be weakened by a lot in a split situation, especially if they have a drawer with a quick finger or a monk with CoP.

I would probably take out profane on your necro for something else, unless you're worried about dual/triple smite.

Agree with taking out dwayna's.

Vindexus · Jul 21, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

I always take Rush on my Axe warrior.

Personally I have to agree that the Necro doesn't seem every usefull. I'm very reluctant to ever run Rotting nowadays because Extinguish is common and hard to stop.

This build also looks very light on Warrior hate. You have one Aegis and a Crip Shot basically. I'd slap a Blackout on that Ranger to drain their Adrenaline, and take out that N/Mo for some sort of E/Mo, probably water to compliment the snaring. I'd run a WaM and a Heal Party on the E/Mo.

To me, any build that doesn't have at least one Heal Party on a non-flagger character isn't worth running at all.

JR · Jul 21, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

I can see the plus sides to Rush, but I also don't like the idea of not having an on demand speed buff. I guess each to his own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

I'd slap a Blackout on that Ranger to drain their Adrenaline, and take out that N/Mo for some sort of E/Mo, probably water to compliment the snaring. I'd run a WaM and a Heal Party on the E/Mo.

Disagreed with the Blackout; given the recent update it requires to much messing up of attributes to really make it worthwhile on a Ranger in my opinion.

Agreed on replacing the necro though, an Air E/Mo with Bflash and WaM is a solid choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

To me, any build that doesn't have at least one Heal Party on a non-flagger character isn't worth running at all.

A bit extreme, but I can see where you are coming from. I almost always try to fit in two Heal Parties.

Vindexus · Jul 21, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

I always find that Rush is more on demand than Sprint, which is why I like it. It sucks to Frenzy, then miss an attack, and not be able to rush out of it thought. It also sucks to not be able to safely frenzy more than once every 20s.

For the blackout the attributes are actually better after the update, it's just that the skill is less powerful. You only need 6 dom to meet the breakpoint, not 8.

Aejorii · Jul 21, 2006, 12:26 AM // 00:26

I don't like running rush with a adrenaline still that drops all of it once I use it (heavy blow). But that's a personal preference I guess.

Vindexus · Jul 21, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aejorii

I don't like running rush with a adrenaline still that drops all of it once I use it (heavy blow). But that's a personal preference I guess.

Agreed. I hate running Rush with Final Thrust, Hammer Bash, Heavy Blow, or Tiger's Fury.

DieInBasra · Jul 21, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10

http://gwshack.us/59096

Edited. Most of the changes you guys suggested are there, tell me if I missed one.

On the smiter, is judges worth it? I was thinking maybe aegis there instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin

Agreed. I hate running Rush with Final Thrust, Hammer Bash, Heavy Blow, or Tiger's Fury.

Yeah, but really, can that guy afford sprint? Would taking out prot's strike for an adren skill, or a skill I won't need to use alot to be effective, and then Sprint on the hammer work better?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

For a start; Rush on both Warriors seems a little strange, any particular reason for having it on the Axe? I do like the hammer spike though, lots of damage there.

Well, I like Rush and then Bulls Strike more then I do sprint. That, and they're almost always with a snare character if it's important they catch someone. Even more so now that I have the Water ele. Oh, and rush is (almost) always there for a cancel stance. But Thanks for your advise on the rest of it, yeah, that ele's attributes were a bit out of wack.

Though after looking at it, I agree with you guys, my necro wasn't doing much, and yeah, extinguish does make disease less powerful, but it seems like whenever I add an ele to the midline it almost requires an adren spike to break a team, whereas if you had disease and order of pain(which would add on ~30 dps with the ranger and both wars attacking), you might be able to break the team with single adren spikes on differant monks, or eventually just burn through their energy. I could be deludeing myself on that point, but I know that when an ele's there, I'm relying on spikes alot more.

Souless · Jul 21, 2006, 01:38 AM // 01:38

You posted the same build up, so we can't really see your changes.

DieInBasra · Jul 21, 2006, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Ha, my bad. I had both open. JR's flag runner, a basic water ele with draw and HP instead of the necro, hex breaker for kiss on the BL monk. I'll post the GWshack version later.

Wasteland Squidget · Jul 21, 2006, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

To me, any build that doesn't have at least one Heal Party on a non-flagger character isn't worth running at all.

In this build I would disagree. You could easily have the Ranger run flags if you're against a degen or AoE taem and not lose too much. One powered Heal Party is enough to handle most teams in my opinion - two is better, but kind of hyper-defensive.

We've run a similar build before, though we had a Dom mesmer instead of the necro. You could throw Expel on the Dom mesmer to solve your hex problems and increase your ability to pressure the enemy out. Skills like Burn and SoW are great for chewing through the initial reserves of energy monks have when the battle starts, allowing you to get them relying on their e-management that much quicker. Then you distract the Heal Party/monk e-management, get a crucial kill, or make some other move which pushes their team over the edge.

Byron · Jul 21, 2006, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Overall, I like the build, but I also have a few opinions.

The hammer warrior kinda bugs me. I've tried the Forceful->heavy thing, and can't say I'm too impressed. The enemy very rarely sits still in between forceful blow and heavy blow, so the spike effect is handicapped. I suppose you're relying on the axe-warrior's shock for adrenaline spikes? If not, I would strongly consider switching to the more traditional Devastating->crushing->fierce. That said, I don't think shock in itself is going to cut it, and you're heavy blow will probably land while the person being spiked is still on the ground. Also: rush on that warrior is a bad choice IMHO. Consider: you'll probably want to cancel that frenzy sometime after heavy blow in the damage chain. However, you won't be able to (another reason to switch it out for devastating). Also: you have healing sig in there and no spec into tactics. Hammers don't need much help from strength, I would suggest going 11 tactics, 9 strength.

I think draw is a better idea on the necro rather than the smiter. A crippled smiter is almost useless on a moving battlefield. Channeling, smite hex, or aegis in its place IMO.

The BL monk is a little confused with GoH and dwayna's - I don't think both are necessary. Dwaynas is great with party-wide enchantments going, ie taint and aegis. So, with the current spec you got going there, I'd take out GoH and put in infuse. Or, take out dwayna's and put in channeling. Ooh, and I'd really like to see distortion on that monk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieInBasra

Would taking out prot's strike for an adren skill, or a skill I won't need to use alot to be effective, and then Sprint on the hammer work better?

To the limit, plague touch, or Bull's strike would work there IMO. Doesn't make sense to take another adren skill with heavy blow being the only KD.

Vindexus · Jul 21, 2006, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

In this build I would disagree. You could easily have the Ranger run flags if you're against a degen or AoE taem and not lose too much. One powered Heal Party is enough to handle most teams in my opinion - two is better, but kind of hyper-defensive.

Actually that's a very good point, I retract my previous statement.

Farin · Jul 21, 2006, 08:09 AM // 08:09

You really need sprint on your hammer warrior.. You have no stance cancel after a spike so it can be a bit dangerous.

Slit Wrists · Jul 21, 2006, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaZoO

You really need sprint on your hammer warrior.. You have no stance cancel after a spike so it can be a bit dangerous.

or drop forceful/heavy blow for devastating/fierce.

DieInBasra · Jul 21, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

http://gwshack.us/0d1e8

There.

Quote:

You really need sprint on your hammer warrior.. You have no stance cancel after a spike so it can be a bit dangerous.

See the threade in the gvg section about cancel stances. This guy just needs to be more wary in a spike then when training on people.

Quote:

That said, I don't think shock in itself is going to cut it, and you're heavy blow will probably land while the person being spiked is still on the ground.

A hammer blow is something near 1.25 under frenzy, so as long as forceful hits a 1/2 second after shock, I should be fine. But I guess I'll fold on the forceful, since most think dev would be better, which is probably true.

Quote:

I think draw is a better idea on the necro rather than the smiter. A crippled smiter is almost useless on a moving battlefield. Channeling, smite hex, or aegis in its place IMO.

Yeah, cripple on a smiter isn't cool, but in that case at least it's drawn back so the prot monk can get a fat heal off of it and doesn't have to extend to the war, and in that build the smiter is a pretty nice target. for the enemy team. I agree that aegis is good on a smiter though. The mesmer in the new build can have draw duty, then.

Quote:

Also: you have healing sig in there and no spec into tactics. Hammers don't need much help from strength, I would suggest going 11 tactics, 9 strength.

Format mistake, that guy used to have shock and no healsig.

Anyway, regarding the new one, it's still light on warrior defense, but two are hard targets, two have distortion, one is a hard target 2/3 of the time, as well as having blinding flash, so if things get rough the ranger can switch to running, and there's an aegis and a blackout. Maybe that still won't work out, though, then I could run hex necro with WvM in the mesmers place.

Is my surge mesmer gimped without mindwrack? He's probably not going to be sitting on someone the whole time, switching depending if one's being spiked or not, but he'll still get ruined by focus swapping. And yeah, like wasteland said, hex removal? I'm hesitant to put expel on the surger, since we have the blessed and two inspired, as well as the ability to sit on hex necros/mesmer with either edenial or interupts.

Thanks for all the replies.

Souless · Jul 21, 2006, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Just noticed that you lack a hard res, might wanna put something on the mesmer for that.

JR · Jul 21, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Souless

Just noticed that you lack a hard res, might wanna put something on the mesmer for that.

Agreed.

Thinking about it I would seriously consider dropping Aegis on the smiter; one Aegis just doesn't seem worth it. If it is seriously going to bother the other team then you really need a constant chain. Instead move draw to him, and put a hard res on the Mesmer. I would also consider putting Drain Enchantment on the Mesmer instead of Power Drain, so you have some enchantment removal.