Curse

Aug · Jul 20, 2006, 03:31 PM // 15:31

What do you mean by the "damage factor"? Thumpers have higher DPS (with their pet included) than a Hammer Warrior does, ignoring the more frequent use of Irresistable Blow.

TheOneMephisto · Jul 20, 2006, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aug

What do you mean by the "damage factor"? Thumpers have higher DPS (with their pet included) than a Hammer Warrior does, ignoring the more frequent use of Irresistable Blow.

Spikes.

Aug · Jul 20, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Don't a lot of Thumpers carry something like Brutal Strike (Pet Attack)? That would surpass the Warrior's increased damage from 16 HM (over 12) in a "spike" situation. I've never played a Thumper, so I'm not really sure what their bar is. I'd think it'd look something like:

Expertise: 13 (10 + 1 + 2)
Beast Mastery: 9 (8 + 1)
Hammer Mastery: 12

or

Expertise: 10 (8 + 1 + 1)
Beast Mastery: 12 (10 + 2)
Hammer Mastery: 12

Devastating Hammer {E}, Crushing Blow, Irresistable Blow, Brutal Strike, Tiger's Fury, Comfort Animal, Charm Animal, Res Sig

DieInBasra · Jul 20, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Hammer bash instead of dev hammer(there really isn't a reason to bring dev in that bar), and Enraged lunge or fero strike instead of brutal. But you can never count on pet damage in a spike. They're usually off hitting some other target, or are otherwise just too slow. And actually, with the new update, they're probably dead anyway.

OH, and sup runes >major, 9 expertise is the same as 10 for 5 and 10 energy skills.

Daneish · Jul 20, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Some drawbacks to Thumpers include their lower armor, the unreliability of their pets' aggro, and the fact that you can inflict DP on said pets. Whenever we face teams with thumpers, now, I make it a point to work down their pets. Dropping a Thumper's Pet effectively blacks him out, and a blacked out Thumper doesn't do much thumping.

twicky_kid · Jul 20, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daneish

Some drawbacks to Thumpers include their lower armor, the unreliability of their pets' aggro, and the fact that you can inflict DP on said pets. Whenever we face teams with thumpers, now, I make it a point to work down their pets. Dropping a Thumper's Pet effectively blacks him out, and a blacked out Thumper doesn't do much thumping.

Rangers stance armor is better than wars. The only drawback to thumpers is the Pet DP.

DieInBasra · Jul 20, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Hmmm, 80 while in a stance or 80 all the time plus absoption plus 20 vs physical...If you're not running many energy moves you could even bump it up to 110 vs physical with legionnaire stuff.

The only time a ranger has better armour is vs Ele's.

Lando Griffen · Jul 20, 2006, 11:20 PM // 23:20

I started pvp'ing with the old generic gale axe warrior, when that was all that you'd see on a w/e. When they nerfed gale, I decided to go ahead and give hammers a try. Much to my surprise, it was a lot more fun to play, and seemed to be doing ungodly amounts of damage. In a build with a decent amount of pressure, you can pretty much spike out a target on your own. As far as pugs go, I do better in groups that want a hammer warrior because even if your team is not well-coordinated, or you don't work well with your team, you're still creating a lot of dps. It's also satisfying using irresistable blow when a monk puts up gaurdian (free kd anyone?). A lot of groups, HA or GvG, will use an axe warrior and a hammer warrior (swords are fun to play, but not as common). I don't know any of the statistics really, but I do know that in addition to massive damage, you're essentially shutting down a character for several seconds, so as to whether or not it's worth it, I'd say it depends on your preference, but for me the answer is yes.

stueyman2099 · Jul 20, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aug

Devastating Hammer {E}, Crushing Blow, Irresistable Blow, Brutal Strike, Tiger's Fury, Comfort Animal, Charm Animal, Res Sig

... why would you use Devestating Hammer instead of Hammer bash?

SaintGreg · Jul 21, 2006, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by stueyman2099

... why would you use Devestating Hammer instead of Hammer bash?

Agreed, doesn't make much sense. Devastating is actually worse in this situation, despite it being elite :P

If you are going to run Brutal Strike, we used to use a Thumper with:

Backbreaker {E}
Crushing Blow
Irresistible Blow
Brutal Strike
Tiger's Fury
Charm Animal
Comfort Animal
Resurrection Signet

It depends on if you want to knock 'em down for twice as long, or twice as often. Although now that pets get dp, theres really no point to using backbreaker anymore.

Greedy Gus · Jul 21, 2006, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Maybe a new thread instead of resurrecting a 15+ page beast every time you think of a hammer topic?

Wasteland Squidget · Jul 21, 2006, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

Maybe a new thread instead of resurrecting a 15+ page beast every time you think of a hammer topic?

QFT. If you guys want to talk about thumpers, make another thread.

llsektorll · Jul 21, 2006, 05:25 AM // 05:25

im not going to pull up stats just give you the plain obvious facts... Hammer warriors are good for preasure builds... axe warriors are good for spikes.. job of hammer is to keep KDs on the monks or casters so they can't cast... obviously the axe warrior can't shock forever... they need 30s for exhaustion for 1 shock to wear off....

in most cases for us in tombs i find it better to run axe and in gvg i find it to run axe and hammer... it might not be a good idea to run two hammers but running two axe warriors are fine...

eviscerate = teh 1337z0Rz

Byron · Jul 21, 2006, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

If you guys want to talk about thumpers, make another thread.

Mah fault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daneish

Dropping a Thumper's Pet effectively blacks him out, and a blacked out Thumper doesn't do much thumping.

Agreed, but I'm not sure if that's a deciding factor in deciding which to take between warrior or thumper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aug

What do you mean by the "damage factor"?

Besides raw damage per hit, spike potential and critical hits. Maybe it's just some weird prejudice, but when I'm monking, a hammer warrior is much more scary than a thumper.

Wasteland Squidget · Jul 21, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

With the addition of DP to pets, Thumpers have gotten very unreliable in comparison to hammer warriors. A good team will DP out your pets and you'll be lucky to ever charge Hammer Bash - this goes triple if the other team is running Disease, since Heal Party and Extinguish won't hit your pets and the degen will kill them in seconds. Without the pet the thumper just doesn't apply as much pressure as the hammer warrior.

So if it's the knockdowns + pressure you're looking for, hammer warrior is the way to go. Of course, if you're just after the pure damage pressure an Enraged Thumper could provide, you'd probably be better off with a dragon slasher than a hammer warrior.

shardfenix · Jul 21, 2006, 06:51 AM // 06:51

kill a monk in 3 hits = hammers make the best weapon for small group battles. Hammer warriors are nearly unstoppable in RA/TA. Same with assassins. They both need a damage nerf.

Wasteland Squidget · Jul 21, 2006, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

kill a monk in 3 hits = hammers make the best weapon for small group battles. Hammer warriors are nearly unstoppable in RA/TA. Same with assassins. They both need a damage nerf.

Sure, a level 12 monk without max armor. In the real world monks get to wear max armor and have allies who can mitigate damage, as well as use pre-prots and skills.

Neither hammer warriors nor assassins are in need of a damage nerf. They're good at taking out solo monks, but have other drawbacks which balance them.

Da Cebuano · Jul 23, 2006, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Personally, I think Elite hammer KDs need to have a +dmg to them personally.

JR · Jul 23, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

I honestly think Hammer Warriors don't need any kind of buff... If anything buff the skills that aren't currently used.

tomcruisejr · Jul 23, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aug

Don't a lot of Thumpers carry something like Brutal Strike (Pet Attack)? That would surpass the Warrior's increased damage from 16 HM (over 12) in a "spike" situation. I've never played a Thumper, so I'm not really sure what their bar is. I'd think it'd look something like:

Expertise: 13 (10 + 1 + 2)
Beast Mastery: 9 (8 + 1)
Hammer Mastery: 12

or

Expertise: 10 (8 + 1 + 1)
Beast Mastery: 12 (10 + 2)
Hammer Mastery: 12

Devastating Hammer {E}, Crushing Blow, Irresistable Blow, Brutal Strike, Tiger's Fury, Comfort Animal, Charm Animal, Res Sig

thumpers carry ferocious strike, which also give them energy when their pet successfully hits something

you can go

14 beastmastery
12 hammer
4 expertise

thumpers can also "spike"

1) Hammerbash + 2) (try to sync this) Tigersfury/Ferocious Strike/Crushing Blow + 3)Irresistible Blow.