Curse

Innocent · Aug 02, 2006, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Hey there

I just had a question, and this is actually something I've been trying to answer myself for a while, but I can't seem to figure out how. Let me set up a scenario

You and your opponets are both split. You're at your base, protecting your GL as they've pushed pretty hard into your base. Now, usually I just keep saying "Push out" but really I have no idea how to do that. What does it take to "push" the enemy? What do we have to do to get them to play the game our way? (in this case, push them out of our base?) Consider that it's a 4v4 split sitaution, I've often times just thought to myself "Well, our offensive team needs to do something so we can push." Am I wrong in thinking that? Please help me out >.>

Wasteland Squidget · Aug 02, 2006, 11:10 PM // 23:10

In 8v8 you can push on the enemy by pressuring their backline heavily enough that they're forced to kite back. In 4v4 if the monk is under that much pressure their group usually dies pretty quickly, especially if the opposition has snares.

Basically, your 4-man squad should initially pull back a bit and lure them into range of some NPCs. NPC pressure makes a big difference in 4-man splits, so try to use the archers as much as you can. Once healthbars on the other team start getting low, pressure the enemy monk with KDs or blackouts or whatever other kind of shutdown you can muster. Killing their monk will usually force them to start playing defensively, and a retreat is almost inevitable after that.

On the larger level, your other 4-man split can do something which forces them to retreat. Maybe they can cap the stand and prevent the enemy getting out of their base, risking a boost for your side. Maybe they can drop the enemy's 4-man split and threaten the lord, forcing their offense to fall back out of your base. You could even have your other 4-man squad fall back on your base and sandwich them in an 8v4 long enough to finish them off.

Basically, you can either apply enough pressure that they die or retreat, or you can force them to go someplace else on the map with your other split squad.

Innocent · Aug 02, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Hmm, that's very helpful, thank you for your feedback. That KD bit is a good one, I never really thought of that one to be honest. I know it's kind of obvious to me now, but I'd always be KD'ing their offensive chars...

Jaelen · Aug 03, 2006, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Also, this type of situation has to be considered before the battle so that the split teams are designated ahead of time rather than adhoc mid-fight. That way you can build-in enough damage to be able to push a bit.

I've seen some teams go with a defensive/offensive split style, thinking that having 4 or even 5 guys turtle at a place will provide enough time for the offensive side of the split to do their job. However, in my experience, this doesn't fair as well as two evenly split teams. The reason is exactly what you mentioned - if you are pure defense, then you are playing at the enemy's terms, which will be in their favor. If you allow part of their split to be purely offensive, they will cause trouble and wear down just about any purely defensive split.

Finally, make sure your flagger knows their role during a split - their offensive or support abilities are magnified in a 4v4 situation and may be important enough to temporarily override their flag running duties. If one team gets routed at the flag stand, than even if the stand is captured now, it's unlikely that the team will regroup and regain control of the stand before the enemy caps and gets a morale boost. Wouldn't it have been better if the enemy got a boost but your team didn't suffer any deaths and lost complete control of the center?

Patrograd · Aug 03, 2006, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaelen

Wouldn't it have been better if the enemy got a boost but your team didn't suffer any deaths and lost complete control of the center?

Depends on a wide range of factors. There arent that many situations where giving up morale is OK - probably the most usual example where it is OK would be where they are at full morale anyway and you have no chance of taking and holding for 2 minutes.

if they have taken deaths and used sigs and are at less than full morale then giving them a boost is usually a game turning event and worth avoiding imo

Thom Bangalter · Aug 03, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innocent

Hmm, that's very helpful, thank you for your feedback. That KD bit is a good one, I never really thought of that one to be honest. I know it's kind of obvious to me now, but I'd always be KD'ing their offensive chars...

nothing is scarier for a caster than to be on their butt. no casting, no kiting...KD is awesome at scaring a monk.

Robster Lobster · Aug 03, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Killing their monk just before the timer hits a 2 minute mark causes the monk to base res, leaving their offensive split with no monk. That can usually be enough to force them to retreat.