Curse

Aug · Aug 04, 2006, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Definitely use Return if you're going with a Mo/A. Dark Escape is nice, but Return is what makes it worth going A secondary.

I've been running:

Divine Favor: 14 (11 + 1 + 2)
Healing Prayers: 12 (11 + 1)
Protection Prayers: 8 (7 + 1)
Shadow Arts: 5

Blessed Light
Signet of Devotion
Gift of Health
Healing Touch
Protective Spirit
Reversal of Fortune
Return
Dark Escape

12 Healing gives a 6s disable from GoH, and 5 Shadow Arts gives a 5s cripple on Return and 8s on Dark Escape. Reversal rarely triggers on attacks greater than 50, and Prot Spirit is rarely needed for more than 15 seconds.

Phelann · Aug 05, 2006, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

When I run BL monk my energy usually never drops below 20 from natural regen. Many times I never even used my energy skills unless I just wanted to.

BL can't protect themselves very well. I like dark escape but the no energy managment makes this a no noob build. Also going to suck if you run into 2 e denial mes. They most likely have a BR somewhere in the build. I dought that evil would leave that kind of weakness in their monks. If you get e denied you can use the energy swaps and BR to counter it.

First paragraph: then your enemies arent trying hard enough.

Second paragraph: yes @ that. We have been running dual e deny lately and when we went up against evil it worked quite well again st them

And no, they dont have a blood ritual in the build.

Fanta · Aug 05, 2006, 03:55 AM // 03:55

The upbringing of the Mo/A started with everyone watching EvIL run it and i wouldn't really call it fotm, but they fail to realize that without the self sufficient energy management your decisions of skill use are crucial, it's not the easiest build to run, because if you misclick a skill you really didn't "need" to use your only e management is waiting or using sod when viable. As stated before me other characters in the build need to be suited to help mitigate damage for the monks. Like phelann said though, 2 e denial mes's will tear apart 2 of these monks anyways, even if there is a BR for the fact that it is shatter bait.

With that said, I love the innovation that EvIL has put out there in making new successful monk builds, it's always nice to see these original ideas.

Esuna · Aug 05, 2006, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Also, not just the use of skills such as Blinding Flash, Wards, Cripple.. etc, but putting them to use in an absolutely optimal fashion. Blinding Warriors as they spike, throwing down wards in the best positions, crippling extended Warriors... People put a lot of stress on Monks and Warriors being the hardest roles to play, but that is only because you can see the effect they are having on a game so easily. Something like a blind bot with a ward is just as hard to micro effectively, it is just far less visible when you do.

However, I'm getting a bit OT here.

Agree wholeheartedly. My guild is always screaming at the monks (one of them being me) when someone dies on an adrenal spike when there was a limit within our monk builds on how much pre-protting we could've done prior to the spike, and the fact that there were no spike disruptions, ie. blinding flash, blurred vision, etc.

Got off topic but... imo, GvG builds with Mo/As in them relatively depends on whether or not you have enough defense on your other characters, and how good your players are with recognizing fatal spikes and disrupting them. Without proper e-management aside from your 4 pips, you get into real trouble when you go down an energy hole, and the rest of your team can't save your butt.

So yeah... it's not always just how capable your monks are at running a tougher build, although that is undoubtedly a huge part of it, but how well the rest of the team supports your monks.

Apok Omen · Aug 05, 2006, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Well, BL monks hardly run out of energy because BP monks usually handle the beginning. At the beginning of every match, no guild just suddenly spikes the living heck out of targets; they take their time to familiarize the opposing team. BL Monks are great for backline as the first target is often the BP monk, but many guilds run a PS+SB monk backline vs. spikes. The BP Monk uses PS and BL use SB. That way, it allows for more support and no stacking.

But since BL monks have no good energy management, they run /A for more mobility. It allows them to get out of quick situations, and the addition of Return is great, as it saves them from a pummeling and hinders the Melee-ers as well. Also, they handle spikes a lot more efficiently, especially SB Spike (which I thought was dead until I saw a guild using tonight...) as they rely on heals instead of enchantments.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

glenn_rolfe · Aug 05, 2006, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

I'm sure you mean Signet of Devotion.

Personally I think this is a great Monk build that needs to be played by great monks to be great. It has no energy management outside of your 4 pips so you have to play it every well. But inspite of that I think it's really quite good. A run buff that halves damage on a monk? And it's a stance, not an enchantment? Yes please. It basically means that you can spike out my monks.

not just by great monks, but great teams who really take heal pressure of monks by looking after themselves (spam self heals, etc.)

Heal/prot blends really seem like the best monk builds money can buy

Fanta · Aug 05, 2006, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

But since BL monks have no good energy management,

Drain Enchant and Power Drain are excellent energy management.

latbec · Aug 05, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

I think if you choose the Mo/A option, you have to consider the rest of your build. I would not run that option without a BiP necro to power the energy of that kind of monk.

Phelann · Aug 05, 2006, 05:07 PM // 17:07

welp evil did

ease · Aug 05, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Mo/A build is very difficult to pull off with a team that is not in top 50 or prolly top 20. The skill required from the other players just isn't there. It is definitely a viable build just not for most guilds. Most lack the coordination and ability to recognize spikes quickly enough to help out monks. But when the Ele sees wars about to spike monk he can blind them, mes can black out the wars, etc... Until that happens regularly I can see many copycats monks trying to be like Evil's monks getting throatpunched all the time. If anybody wants to try this build and you have been a boon prot for your gvg career then try Blessed Light builds first. After you and your team has been able to adapt to that then I would say try the Mo/A build. Not only do you need an excellent monk to pull this off, you need an excellent team.

Phelann · Aug 07, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

also just for the record, since everyone keeps mentioning evil, one monk in supernova has been doing mo/a with dark escape forevvvvveerrrrrr, think his name is woin or someting like that.

romO · Aug 07, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

EvIL gets a lot of credit. Do they deserve it? Of course, but not quite in all cases. They haven't really been the ones to invent such builds, but they have been able to make them viable and show the public how effective they can be when played correctly. Props for doing that and all and they rock, but also thanks for pointing out the players and were the precursors (I don't want to say creators, I'm pretty sure 10,000 different people conceived the dark escape monk as soon as they saw the skill) to such builds, Phelann.

Mithie · Aug 07, 2006, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by latbec

I think if you choose the Mo/A option, you have to consider the rest of your build. I would not run that option without a BiP necro to power the energy of that kind of monk.

You don't need a BiP nec to power a Mo/A. You DO need a good partner monk with some solid reflexes and good communication.

Schorny · Aug 08, 2006, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

While a Boon/Blessed Backline becomes stronger against most forms of pressure, it becomes weaker against spike since the BL monk has no big 1/4s heal. This is especially true if the Boon Prot is the one getting spiked, since the spike will often involve a KD which turns off the most important part of the would-be spike save.

Distortion can buy you that half second.

Quote:

Putting Dark Escape on the BL monk does a couple things.

You forgot 2 other points:

dark escape really shine in a split situation where your has a high mobility.

and it can greatly reduce pressure on the BL monk. it is not only good for spikes (distortion for example can only be used against spikes, it can't be used to stop warriors pressuring you)

Mitsu Bishi · Aug 08, 2006, 01:57 PM // 13:57

I made the switch from Mo/Me Blessed Light (with Drain Ench/Insp. Hex + Power Drain, rarely with Distortion) to Mo/A Blessed Light with Dark Escape and I don't feel like it's a downgrade. We also don't feature a Blood Ritual in our build (though we have a ritu with damage mitigating spirits) and I rarely run out of energy. In split situations I have survived pressure I would never have survived with Distortion (due to not being able to run away, it just delays the inevitable and drains you dry). Sure it's not the perfect monk build and it needs a team geared towards it (Warriors with self-heal, Mesmers with Distortion, maybe a Ward and Blinds, etc.) but it is a very stable healer and IMO a good addition to a backline.

I don't like Healing Touch in the build, though. It does not work well together with Gift of Health (which is your cheap main heal) because most of the time it will be blackouted when you need it the most. Quite often I run Divine Intervention as Anti-Spike (especially valuable in splits when there is next to no enchantment removal), I also tried out several hexremoves but usually we didn't need those too often and got along pretty well with BL, I-Hex on the Boon and Convert on an Ele.