Curse

Guillaume De Sonoma · Aug 09, 2006, 08:53 AM // 08:53

GvG Degen Build. I need sugestions for this build, because to me it lacks a bit of Umphh. I don't get the chance to GvG anymore because of my guild really dislikes having to maintain a place on the ladder and have a lot more fun in HA generally. Now we /resign in GvG and our trying to get the lowest rank possible. We are at 4,100 plus so it looks cool in HA.

The basic concept of the build was to create a large amount of degen across a large amount of playerson the opposing team without relying too heavily on conditions or hexes. Spikes will be done with the Axe and Hammer focusing on one target with an assist from the Necro. The Melanru's Ranger will hussle up to one of the monks and black him out. The mesmer will make a judgement call as to wether overextend or not and blackout the other monk. The primary runner will be the Crippleshot Ranger. You can send an Axe Warrior and the Crippleshot Ranger to the enemy base and then the Melandru's Ranger can run flags in their absence.

Update 1:
Changed Crippleshot's Attributes
Replaced the Sup runes on Mesmer and Necro
Added Draw and Faintheartedness of the necro.

Ranger Cripshoter

Attributes:

Expertise: 11+4
Wilderness Survival: 9+1
Marksmanship: 10+1
Illusion Magic: 3

1. Apply Poison
2. Crippling Shot {e}
3. Savage Shot
4. Distracting Shpt
5. Distortion
6. Storm Chaser
7. Troll Unguent
8. Resurrection Signet

Primary flag runner. Can split off with the Axe Warrior to go clear out the base.

Melandru's Ranger

Attributes:

Illusion: 3
Domination: 6
Wilderness Survival: 11+4
Expertise: 8+1
Marksmanship: 9+1

1. Melandru's Arrows {e}
2. Debilitating Shot
3. Blackout
4. Savage Shot
5. Distracting Shot
6. Storm Chaser
7. Distortion
8. Resurrection Signet

Degens the enemy team. Debilitating Shot and interupts are meant to either pressure their defense of disrupt their offense. Can be a flag runner in the cripshots absence. Blacks out on spikes. Debilitating for the non-migrained monk to add to pressure.

Hex Necro

Attributes:

Blood Magic: 12+1+1
Curses: 8+1
Healing Prayers: 9
Soul Reaping: 5+1

1. Life Siphon
2. Parasitic Bond
3. Draw Conditions
4. Faintheartedness
5. Offering of Blood {e}
6. Shadow Of Fear
7. Heal Party
8. Resurrection Signet

Spreads Hexes and contributes to Spikes. OoB for energy and Heal Party because there is no Ele.

Illusion Mesmer:

Attributes:

Illusion:11+1+1
Domination: 6+1
Fast Casting: 9+1
Insperation: 9+1

1. Mantra of Persistance
2. Migraine {e}
3. Conjure Phantasm
4. Images of Remource
5. Power Drain
6. Drain Enchantments
7. Blackout
8. Resurrection Chant

Spreads Degen and Migraines one a monk. He can choose to blackout a monk on a spike.

Shock Axe:

Axe Mastery: 12+4
Strength: 5+1
Tactics: 8+1
Air Magic: 9

1. Eviscerate {e}
2. Executioner's Strike
3. Bull's Strike
4. Healing Signet
5. Shock
6. Sprint
7. Frenzy
8. Resurrection Signet

Can split and spike.

Hammer Warrior:

Attributes:

Hammer Mastery: 12+4
Tactics: 9+1
Strength: 9+1

1. Devestating Blow {e}
2. Crushing Blow
3. Fierce Blow
4. Irresistable Blow
5. To The Limit!
6. Rush
7. Frenzy
8. Resurrection Signet

Stays with the team and spikes the Axe Warriors target.

Then two Boon Prot Monk to finish the build. Protective Spirit can be replaced for other spells. I recomend having one monk with Protective Spirit and one monk with Spirit Bond.

Quote:

Boon Prot
Monk/Mesmer

Purpose: Easily the most popular style of monk, delivering fast and efficient healing at the cost of a pip of energy regeneration. Also has the benefit of being the most durable, with the ability to self heal/prot.

Divine Favor: 14 (12+2)
Protection Prayers: 10 (9+1)
Inspiration Magic: 9

- Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
- Guardian (Protection Prayers)
- Protective Spirit (Protection Prayers)
- Mend Condition (Protection Prayers)
- Inspired Hex (Inspiration Magic)
- Contemplation of Purity (Divine Favor)
- Energy Drain [Elite] (Inspiration Magic)
- Divine Boon (Divine Favor)

yesitsrob · Aug 09, 2006, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Looks pretty decent to me in general. Few things

I'd contemplate ditching the res sig on the runner in favor of another skill, perhaps another running skill - res sigs just don't have a great use on a runner and you have enough with 4

I'd also consider looking for a home for draw conditions on the necro or illusion mesmer, so many flash bots around, and crip shots, and booners simply cant afford to spend 7 energy just to remove conditions

Also on your necro and illusion mesmer you may want to consider only running minor runes. Adrenal spikes with a large armor ignoring component are still quite common in gvg so every bit of health helps

Slit Wrists · Aug 09, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Draw is definitely needed cause so far, you have no conditions removal but mend conditions.

Other problem : you have no hex removal except inspired hex on the boonprots.

JR · Aug 09, 2006, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume De Sonoma

Ranger Cripshoter

Attributes:

Marksmanship: 9+1
Expertise: 12+3+1
Wilderness: 9+1
Illusion: 9+1

Check these attributes, they don't currently work.

Expertise: 15 (11+4)
Wilderness Survival: 10 (9+1)
Marksmanship: 11 (10+1)
Illusion Magic: 3

Seems more logical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume De Sonoma

Hex Necro

Attributes:

Blood Magic: 12+4
Curses: 8+1
Healing Prayers: 9
Soul Reaping: 5+1

1. Life Siphon
2. Parasitic Bond
3. Shadow Strike
4. Vampiric Gaze
5. Offering of Blood {e}
6. Shadow Of Fear
7. Heal Party
8. Resurrection Signet

In a pressure type build I think Shadow Strike and Vampiric Gaze are wasted. I would rather go with more pressure, and have Faintheartedness subbed in for one, and a Draw Conditions for the other.

As already stated; probably drop the Superiors on the casters.

zoozoc · Aug 09, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Or you could do 16 expertise, making CS and apply poison only cost 5 energy.

expertise 16 (12+3+1)
marksmanship 10 (9+1)
wilderness10 (9+1)
illusion 3

JR · Aug 09, 2006, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoozoc

Or you could do 16 expertise, making CS and apply poison only cost 5 energy.

expertise 16 (12+3+1)
marksmanship 10 (9+1)
wilderness10 (9+1)
illusion 3

With a pure flag stand Crip-Shot I would consider that, but given this guy will probably be spending most of his time running flags I think you can get away with 15.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Aug 09, 2006, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Updated the build. My problem is that I really don't know how well spikes will work with it. That is why I had a Strike and Gaze on the necro. If we can get a good blackout on both monks though it should be fine.

Divineshadows · Aug 09, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume De Sonoma

GvG Degen Build. I need sugestions for this build, because to me it lacks a bit of Umphh. I don't get the chance to GvG anymore because of my guild really dislikes having to maintain a place on the ladder and have a lot more fun in HA generally. Now we /resign in GvG and our trying to get the lowest rank possible. We are at 4,100 plus so it looks cool in HA.

Are you purposely trying to have teams underestimate you in HA? Seems like it's be easy to reach the very end of the ladder with several /resigns and 4100 still feels too high to accomplish your goal of deception. Shoot for 10,000+ if the ladder stretches down that far.

I am curious as to why you are designing builds when your guild does not do GvG. For degen builds, it is my opinion that the build needs to overload your opponent's capability to either remove conditions or to remove hexes. This build does neither and any guild with expel hexes, extinguish, draw conditions, and heal party will pretty much nullify any degen pressure you were hoping for and make adrenal spikes the only option to get kills.

The attributes on the persistence degen do not look optimized either. 13 illusion buys nothing extra beyond 12 for migraine and conjure phantasm. Hitting the breakpoint on images of remorse for -4 degen is really not that key. What is key for a persistence degen is to make your mantra of persistence good and your energy management good. 10 inspiration doesn't cut it. How about 15 inspiration (11+4), 12 illuison (11+1), 9 fast cast (8+1), 2 dom (1+1), 3 healing prayers? I think this is much more efficient assuming you decide to go the hex degen route as long as you consider blackout mainly to be an adrenaline reset.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume De Sonoma

If we can get a good blackout on both monks though it should be fine.

You're dreaming if you think even a decent opponent is going to allow you that type of position to blackout both of their monks at the same time unless you are already solidly beating them in which case it would only accelerate the steamroll.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Aug 09, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Are you purposely trying to have teams underestimate you in HA? Seems like it's be easy to reach the very end of the ladder with several /resigns and 4100 still feels too high to accomplish your goal of deception. Shoot for 10,000+ if the ladder stretches down that far.

With the new season not enough guilds have GvG'd. It becomes harder to get down very low like the very first season where there was no ladder reset. Losing only gives -6 or so to rating. It also becomes harder to get match ups.

Quote:

I am curious as to why you are designing builds when your guild does not do GvG.

I'm bored, we plan to GvG in the next season.

Quote:

For degen builds, it is my opinion that the build needs to overload your opponent's capability to either remove conditions or to remove hexes. This build does neither and any guild with expel hexes, extinguish, draw conditions, and heal party will pretty much nullify any degen pressure you were hoping for and make adrenal spikes the only option to get kills.

Well, I tried to make the build so that it didn't focus to heavily on conditions or hexes and create a balance that could create too much degen for the opposing team to handle.

Quote:

The attributes on the persistence degen do not look optimized either. 13 illusion buys nothing extra beyond 12 for migraine and conjure phantasm. Hitting the breakpoint on images of remorse for -4 degen is really not that key. What is key for a persistence degen is to make your mantra of persistence good and your energy management good. 10 inspiration doesn't cut it. How about 15 inspiration (11+4), 12 illuison (11+1), 9 fast cast (8+1), 2 dom (1+1), 3 healing prayers? I think this is much more efficient assuming you decide to go the hex degen route as long as you consider blackout mainly to be an adrenaline reset.

I'll keep that in mind and test that later.

Quote:

You're dreaming if you think even a decent opponent is going to allow you that type of position to blackout both of their monks at the same time unless you are already solidly beating them in which case it would only accelerate the steamroll.

Yeah I agree here. I don't see the mesmer being able to hustle up and blackout quick enough and not die from overextending. He would have to make a judgement call on wether or not the monks are out of position enough to get in a blackout.

TheOneMephisto · Aug 10, 2006, 04:43 AM // 04:43

First, the necro is not contributing on the spikes anymore.

And the point of focusing on either hex or condition degen is to overload one thing a LOT. For instance, if they are using say 1 draw 2 mend condition and say 2 ihexes and an expel. If you only use conditions, tose two ihexes and that expel becomes useless, and you have that much less to overload. If you only use hexes, the draw and mends become useless, and once again their useful skill slots are basically cut down.

This is Brad · Aug 10, 2006, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Not enough heal party, you are going to get rolled by any sort of decent pressure.